the problem with such (lovely may I say ) system is the same problem with other RPG parts. yes, MIN MAXERS!
they can add such bosses, and in fact we had such bosses back in classic and tbc but then players started to nag about it and other raid groups started to exclude classes because of that.
are you a fire mage trying to kill a boss made out of fire because you need the loot? well good luck finding a grp for that.
are you a rogue looking for a grp to kill a boss who has 60% immunity to bleed and poison ? well its a shame you cant find any groups.
even if the above example was 10% immunity, still min maxers would exclude people. its the most stupid thing as min maxing as a world first or hell even a realm first guild is acceptable but then stupid medicore guilds and groups start to mimic the top 0.1% players and think it will make a difference to min max when most players dont even know how to properly use their talents let alone new talents and abilities they force them to chose.
That's besides the point. The point, that no one can agree on what an "RPG" actually is, because there are so many, that are so very different, still stands.
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I don't disagree, but you'll see those people in tabletop RPG's too such as D&D or Pathfinder. I've known players, who'd use hours creating spreadsheets on how to make the best character, by indeed min-maxing, class-combining, picking the right weapons and feats etc. The result was often utterly absurd and ridiculous, and ironically they struggled with finding a name or a persona for their character because all they wanted was, to kill monsters and obtain loot.
Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann
The dictionary definition is "a game in which participants adopt the roles of imaginary characters in an adventure under the direction of a Game Master."
So... it's pretty broad range lol, just about anything that you play through a story as a character could be considered a role-playing game.
I agree that min/maxing is an issue. However, if it remains consistent it shouldn't be a problem. A way around it is to give achivements/rewards to group compositions that could include specs that would be at a disadvantage. This way most casual guilds would not care as much, LFR is a thing and people don't really get to choose, leaving the top guilds to cry about things, but if experience serves us well, they tend to adapt quite quickly once Blizzard says "yes, it's a thing!"
What Blizzard should do is to keep some specs with a clear advantage (between 5-10%) and make it so that in the same instance or raid different specs get a chance to shine. If we are only talking about a Molten Core-like experience, it doesn't matter how much I like the format (I really do!) but it will not be a good design to heavily favour only one spec. In a 6 boss encounter raid there is nothing holding Blizzard back from including two bosses that are weaker to Ice/Shadow, two more that are weak to Fire/Lightning, a couple more that are weak to Holy/Arcane and so on. Even for melee classes it would work quite well, with two which are weaker to DoTs, two more that are weak to arpen/elements, and finally two that are a bit resistant to DoTs.
This way we could have a lot more player agency, guilds might not be completely aware of which boss is weak to what, adding one more layer to progression and since all team members would be useful in different situations, switching characters in and out is still better than benching a character completely.
I guess the issue would remain the same though, with Blizzard having to make choices that make sense and do not slip as often as they do. It is not uncommon to see they get it so wrong that some specs see almost no play for a year or two because they are very underpowered (not talking about being under the top spec by 5%, but by 4 times that or even more!)
WoW has many RPG elements, just watered down.
A few of them are...
Choice:
In a single player RPG scenario, or small-group, focused, you have story choices that lead you down path A or B.
As a DM who has had plans foiled many a time, the players make the choice and the dice fall as they may.
Even in console games, do a series of tasks with some outcomes and you can get one of two or more "ending" paths.In WoW, you have that choice as well, but it's pick one: Horde or Alliance, then the story you are told is tailored to one or the other.
Character Customization:
Some of the greatest RPGs lack the character customization WoW has. Many others have a more in-depth one. WoW comes up in the shallower end overall, but still allows gender/class/race choices instead of being the pre-determined Hero design.
Stats:
This is where WoW suffers the most, as the majority of stats it used to have added that RPG flavor, but in a massive game, it all came down to "what did the guide say?".
People can argue hit and defense are great secondary stats, and they wouldn't be wrong, but the end result didn't create some magical custom way of playing the game; it just made it a bit harder to hit your "marks" (6.5% hit/expertise or 13% spell hit, things like that), which ultimately meant if you were lacking in certain stats, you did less throughput or, in the case od a tank, could be one-shot by a crushing blow.
WoW, being massive, suffered from that due to complexity and being the "casual alternative" to the hardcode RPG scene; it was hard for the playerbase to figure out so they would just look up a guide, then down the line, install a reforge addon, and not actually think too much about it.
The ones who suffered were the min-maxers who liked squeezing every ounce out they could, as well as those cheeky ones who wanted to make off-the-wall builds and such.
Skills/Talents:
Similar to the Stats category, this was also dumbed down to the point where everything was more "templated" or in other words, on rails.
What used to be the choice here was largely "what does the guide say?" but it did allow for funky builds for fun as well as an expanded arsenal of (sub-optimal) skills, like someone putting all their points into the fire tree then spamming frostbolt because it's fun.
Today's version loses a lot of that weird, situational flavor in favor of "well, you're a fre mage, so you have only fire spells" and "here's a handful of talent 'choices' that really come down to ST vs AOE vs Utility (vs garbage)", taking a lot of the wiggle room out, again for simplicity's sake.
Story-telling:
This kinda goes with the Choice one above, where everyone is told the same story and are generally guided down the same exact path.
It's very common in your old school RPGs, with Chrono Trigger being one of those fantastic gems of "here's a shit load of different endings, see how many you can find!" approach.
Games told one story and you acted it out with a simple pass/fail on the quest where fail means "game over".
Modern RPGs now have a multi-threaded story that can lead to different overall outcomes.
WoW tried introducing the Sylvanas loyalist storyline, which gave you a few different quests (same kind of thing they have done since the beginning when choosing rep faction A over B), but ultimately it didn't matter; she fled the coop and everyone forgives you, I guess?
A massive game suffers under those devices because it can't truly divide the Horde playerbase between loyalists and rebels, else they further risk exclusion.
You get a toy, or whatever, then back to the main path you go with the rest of the flock.
Absolutely it does because players are all the same now. Same stat weights, same talents, same weapon types, same questing path.
FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)
Wanna know why WoW has pared down its RPG elements?
Just look at the community response to covenants. Or legiondaries. Or a azerite traits. Or warforged gear or gear with random gem slots or any other thing that for the majority of players is just a nice little bonus or bit of flavor, but that the community... THIS community... will rant and rave over, arguing that they can’t have the right option or know the right option beforehand or can’t do a set A to B to get to the right option guaranteed.
RPGs are about choice; a game or community that stresses the importance of always being able to obtain the “right” choice means that there isn’t actually a choice at all.
Frankly, the players are to blame for that mindset.
“Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
Words to live by.
WoW is definitely RPG-lite. It's why it just doesn't hold my interest like it used to - once you skim the surface that's really all there is to see. Over time Blizzard has buffed out all of the nooks and crannies for players to explore in terms of character progression and customization... and their reasoning always seems to be their players are too stupid to figure it out. "We don't want anyone doing anything "wrong"" or "do you really need to see all those complicated stats" or "they can't find the PVP vendor" ... so our solution is to just streamline everything so no one can make any bad decisions.
Well... no one can make any good decisions either. The only remaining piece of player expression that remains in WoW in 2020 is your xmog, title and mount choice.
The game is massive... but it's a mile wide and an inch deep. And depending on what sort of RPG elements you like - gameplay or cosmetics - there are better games in those areas, unfortunately no game really does both really well. For cosmetics I think ESO is the gold standard with their housing system, plentiful costumes, hair styles, skin colors, etc. On the actual gameplay side... sad to say I still have to play EQ for that old school feel. The game is really jank but if you can cut through the weeds, you can find a nice little cove at the center that really delivers on the old promise of what an MMORPG should be.
WoW is just not that anymore. People buy the box and play the entire new expansion content like a single player game - solo. For group content they get randomly matched with others where their class doesn't matter, communication doesn't matter, strategy doesn't matter... they don't matter at all and in fact and might as well just be an NPC.
I don't think you really need to define 'rpg' to be able to answer 'yes'. WoW has almost no RPG mechanics. I'd say it's a tab target looter-shooter, but you're able to heal other people.
If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.
you know what a rpg element would be? if you had several groups (lets call them covenants) that you had to make a choice to join. and it would be hard to rejoin them if you decided to leave and join another one.
yeah. thats why there arent many rpg elements. because people want to have their cake and eat it too.
Rpg elements is so utterly vague and undefined to be useless it's just what people insert into arguments when they dont have a logical point for something they want.
Exactly. Just look at that Exochaft guy, who argues that WoW doesn't even have an illusion of choice because a best option exists.
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Hm. I can choose my race, gender, appearance, class, specialization, gear appearace, and modify some spells. That very sentence pretty much cements that WoW is an RPG.
The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.