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  1. #61
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by music49 View Post
    Mechanically it won't, but story and lore wise whats the difference between a tinker and a warrior with engineering?
    You mean other than the fact that a warrior with engineering isn’t inventing anything but is just following blueprints and schematics? Just because a warrior uses technology, it doesn’t make them a Tinker. A warrior relies on his strength and fighting ability. Lobbing bombs is just an add on. A Tinker on the other hand would be fully reliant on their technology.

    Captain America with a device that allows his shield to return to him doesn’t turn him into Tony . Stark, who is completely reliant on his inventions and technology.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Legias View Post
    What about specs? What are some additional specs you would like to see? A few of mine below starting with the one I would most love to see:

    The only thing I would like to see is that classes that are pure dps have a spec that allows them to fulfill another role. ie Tank/Healer

    Adding additional dps modes would just muddy the water.

    I would love to see Spellblade added to Mages and let them tank. But I might be a very tiny minority.

  3. #63
    a new class is like 100x less work for them so you will never get a 4th spec for the current classes

  4. #64
    From a previous post of mine.

    Death Knight: Spirit (Healer/DPS hybrid utilizing spectral energy, defeated enemies fuel your spirit runes allowing your attacks to create healing pools of spectral energy under your allies, you also get a skeletal healer to aid you...)

    Demon Hunter: Soulweaver (DPS where you siphon the very life essence of your enemies and sacrifice your own to do damage to enemies in melee or at a distance for massive damage, you gain access to Polearms, 2Handed Swords, and 2Handed Axes...)

    Druid: (Since Druid already have their 4th spec they would get some unique new form options some other stuff, one of which is a new tier of talents replacing the affinity talent tier which would then become an extra talent tier available to all specs...)

    Hunter: Savagery (Tank that utilizes bestial aspects to empower you and your pet. Your pet is an extension of yourself including the pain you experience and damage is distributed among all summoned pets. This spec would utilize traps in more unique ways...)

    Mage: Chronology (Healing that manipulates time allowing them to rewind damage done create arcane barriers that detonate for damage when depleted and in some cases prevent and rewind a death completely...)

    Monk: Firedancing (DPS that mixes fire and nature into powerful blasts of energy leaving behind negative effects for enemies and beneficial effects for allies...)

    Paladin: Divinity (DPS where the paladin has mastered casting powerful light based spells at a range, these spells gain more power based on the holy power spent, you gain access to Staves...)

    Priest: Zealotry (Tank where You gain an almost godlike will increasing your attack power based on your intelligence, and additional health, armor and damage reduction. Your melee attacks are charged with holy powers that weaken and ensnare your foes, you gain the ability to use Polearms, 2Handed Swords, and 2Handed Axes...)

    Rogue: Dervish (Tank where you frequently avoid both melee and magical damage greatly aggravating your foes every time they fail to land an attack, fueling your strikes and bolstering your defenses. You also gain access to cobra venom, a poison that has a chance to splatter in the eyes of your enemies when you attack causing them moderate nature damage and a weak damage over time which gives them a 5% chance to miss you completely with their spells and attacks...)

    Shaman: Earthwarden (Tank that utilizes the earth beneath you as a defense pulling up stone and rubble from the ground around you bolstering your defenses and weakening your foes, as an Earthwarden you gain the ability to imbue your shield much like your weapons with special primordial/defensive magics for the situation at hand...)

    Warlock: Dreadnaught (Tank that uses shadow, fear and fel fire to bolster their defenses, they gain access to most melee weapons and the ability to dual wield, they also frequently ingest demons blood to boost these effects. This spec also has a special imp that does minor damage, periodically heals you, and prevents any damage that would otherwise kill you once and a while...)

    Warrior: Gladiator (DPS hybrid where you use a Shield and 2Handed weapon to dish out massive damage and reduce the damage your allies take through your various special shouts and battle flags...)

    I could come up with much more detailed fleshed out ideas within the specs I have there but it is basically that easy, and then you iterate on them as you develop each one.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Shadowlands Release Date will be October 20th or 27th, 2020

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Legias View Post
    I think most can at least agree this topic is one that causes much debate. While a new class is always interesting and brings new group dynamics there are a lot of people that would rather see existing classes optimized. From a dev perspective it is definitley easier to add a new class than to add a 4th spec to all existing classes, especially if they continue with the DH shortcut of only making 2 specs. Regardless if it is new classes or new specs I think anything would be a welcome change at this point. I find myself losing interest in the classes that I have played most of the history of wow like Ele shaman and Guardian druid. I think shadowlands is a step in the right direction with "unpruning" but overall I think wow has moved away from the state of classes that were the most fun. Legendary effects are cool and interesting but the classes are left feeling broken when they get taken away.

    Anyway, I know these post have been done before and the primary answer for new classes are lich/necromancer and Tinker but what are some other classe you guys would like to see? I am on the tinker bandwagon as I love engineering. Something in mail as we are lacking in that department.

    What about specs? What are some additional specs you would like to see? A few of mine below starting with the one I would most love to see:

    Shaman: 4th spec - Earthwarden - A shaman tank. Using the elements to strengthen their resolve and protect those around them. Earthern Armor could be their mastery with things like rockbiter weapon and lightning shield coming into play. I have a whole talent system laid out for this but I'll leave it there.

    Rogue: 4th spec - This could go one of two ways. Ninja which I think most rogues would prefer or Duelist which would be a dual pistol mid ranged fighter giving a much needed extra range spec to the game. Hey if a hunter can be melee then a rogue can be ranged

    Demon Hunter - 3rd Spec - Carnage - A mid ranged glaive/chakram class. Again giving a much needed additional ranged spec

    Paladin: 4th Spec - Dark Crusader - This could be a tank or a dps

    Warrior: 4th Spec - Berserker - A fearless tank that doesn't need a shield as his blind rage allows him to absorb damage.

    Death Knight: 4th spec - Pestilance - A disease focused spec

    Warlock: 4th spec - Lich - Focused on draining life and energy from their enemies.

    Mage: 4th spec - Dragonic - A mage with the powers of a dragon. We often see dragon aspects shapeshift into mages. It isn't that far fetched that at some point they train mages in the ways of dragonic magic

    Hunter: 4th spec - Drew a blank here, sorry

    Priest: 4th spec - Another blank here

    Obviosly I don't believe any of this would happen but it can be fun to imaine the things we would love to see.
    New class i vote in a mail-wearing shadow hunter. The specs would be the healer witch doctor, a ranged hybrid that combines spells with weapons. Other 3 specs that i wouldnt be sure are: a full ranged caster, a tank and a meele.

    The new specs for all classes in my opinion should be an attempt to give more roles to everyone, to reduce queue times, specially for non-tanks

    Warrior: archer. A warrior trained using ranged weapons, different from the hunter who is more "self-thought".

    Death knight: a ranged caster using pets and death magic. Unholy would become more focused on diseases and less on pets. This way each spec would represent one of the 4 horsemen. War, famine, pestilence and death.

    Paladin: a ranged holy caster. There are no offensive dps using holy magic.

    Druid: already have enough

    Shaman: earth: a tank spec who uses shields and earth magic.

    Hunter: they now have a meele spec, they could also have a tank spec. There is so much potencial for a pet user tank, so many interesting interactions.

    Rogue: gunslinger- a ranged weapon user. I would also suggest a tank rogue, could that be a thing? Are subtlety and assassination different enough that they couldn't be merged? I dont play rogue.

    Monk: priest has discipline who is a healer that has to deal dps to heal, how about the meele version of that with monk? Also there are 4 August celestials, so the red crane and jade dragon could be divided.

    Demon hunter: a ranged caster: most demon hunters were mages before, even illidan was, they cant use the arcane now but fel is even stronger so why not learn how to use that? I would make them a ranged dps with low range but a lot of mobility, almost a "meele mage". Another spec could be a ranged weapon dps using the fel.

    Mage: either a spellblade, meele dps who uses magic to empower the attacks, or chronomancer, using time reversal magic to heal.

    Priest: necromancer, a ranged dps using death magic. Or a tank using shields and protective magic.

    Warlock: blood mage: a healer who uses dark magic to heal, wow really needs an "evil" healer.

    Hope you enjoyed the read

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It's been shown multiple times that classes never take anything away from professions. For example, Hunters got Wildfire Grenade, and that took nothing away from Engineering. DKs got Runeforging, Mages had Frost/Molten/Mage armor, and Shaman had imbue weapon. That took nothing away from Enchanting.
    Nani? Runforges literally exclusively take away from enchanting that is the stated point of the system.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You mean other than the fact that a warrior with engineering isn’t inventing anything but is just following blueprints and schematics? Just because a warrior uses technology, it doesn’t make them a Tinker. A warrior relies on his strength and fighting ability. Lobbing bombs is just an add on. A Tinker on the other hand would be fully reliant on their technology.

    Captain America with a device that allows his shield to return to him doesn’t turn him into Tony . Stark, who is completely reliant on his inventions and technology.
    Are you inventing stuff in the game? The want for a tinker class to me says that engineering (and the other professions) need to be re looked at.

    I'm not against a tinker class, I just want it done well and I want to point out the flaws I see

  8. #68
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Nani? Runforges literally exclusively take away from enchanting that is the stated point of the system.
    Did Death Knights being able to enchant their weapons destroy the Enchanting profession?

    I would say no.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by music49 View Post
    Are you inventing stuff in the game? The want for a tinker class to me says that engineering (and the other professions) need to be re looked at.

    I'm not against a tinker class, I just want it done well and I want to point out the flaws I see
    Well now you're circling back to a gameplay argument. You were arguing about story and lore.

    The engineering profession (and other professions) will never be able to replicate the power of a class. They are going to continue to push professions into crafting armor, trinkets and toys. Giving engineering viable weaponry would imbalance the profession system and force everyone to min/max from that one profession. We know this to be the case because that was the case in early WoW, and why it was eventually changed.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Did Death Knights being able to enchant their weapons destroy the Enchanting profession?

    I would say no.
    But that's not what I was pointing out. I was inferring that by overselling your position you weakened it by exposing an obvious falsehood. It's is just factually incorrect to say runeforging didn't 'take anything' enchanting because (as I said) that is literally the stated purpose of the feature.

  10. #70
    There will NEVER be 4th specs. For obvious reasons.
    There will be very unlikely any new class coming soon. For obvious reasons.
    Stop those threads please. Thank you. :*

  11. #71
    Between new classes and "4th specs," I'd say we are far more likely to get new classes. New classes offer a lot that 4th specs don't: story links, marketing excitement, less work going forward, entirely different play styles. Plus with Blizz trying to go back on some of the spec vs. class changes (making more of them baseline), adding in new specs really won't be nearly as bit of a gain as one might hope.

    If we were to look at potential new classes, Tinker currently has to be the one with the most behind it. Heck, there was an entire Island team based around Tinker abilities. People would play it, the lore already supports it, and you can really keep them from playing like anything else. Beyond that, there really aren't a lot of great options right now: Necomancer would have been a good Shadowlands fit, but as Shadowlands won't have a new class they are unlikely to come about. Dark Rangers don't seem like they'd play all that different from Hunters, especially given the Marksman Lone Wolf talent. Maybe Dragonsworn from the RPG books, that could work if we have a Dragon-themed expansion.

  12. #72
    Thanks. I realize i forgot DH, though I'm not sure what extra spec would fit with them. Maybe a ranged DPS spec that throws their glaives?
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  13. #73
    This is not a realistic comparison.

    What you are sugesting is 4th specs or 3 new classes?

    At wich point i'd rather 3 new classes.

    Either one is an unrealistic expectation.

    1 class or 4th specs for 3 existing classes is the more realistic aproach and i still choose a new class.

  14. #74
    stop with this 4th spec obsession. if anything we need less than we have right now

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Easyclassictopkeklel View Post
    There will NEVER be 4th specs. For obvious reasons.
    There will be very unlikely any new class coming soon. For obvious reasons.
    Stop those threads please. Thank you. :*
    this, thank you

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post

    Well now you're circling back to a gameplay argument. You were arguing about story and lore.

    The engineering profession (and other professions) will never be able to replicate the power of a class. They are going to continue to push professions into crafting armor, trinkets and toys. Giving engineering viable weaponry would imbalance the profession system and force everyone to min/max from that one profession. We know this to be the case because that was the case in early WoW, and why it was eventually changed.
    I just don't think Tinker and engineering are different things, but that's just me. If blizzard implement tinker as a class I hope it's different enough thematically from what an engineer is thematically. Mechanically its just push buttons and enemies taking a damage.

    You missed the part where is said "(and the other professions)". People really want a tinker class and there's nothing wrong with that. But that means the profession engineering isn't all that great short of another crafting profession. I'm no game developer though, I don't know what changes they could make.

  16. #76
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by music49 View Post
    I just don't think Tinker and engineering are different things, but that's just me. If blizzard implement tinker as a class I hope it's different enough thematically from what an engineer is thematically. Mechanically its just push buttons and enemies taking a damage.
    Semantically they aren't. Tinkers are a type of engineer, that is a fact. However, while all Tinkers are engineers, not all engineers are Tinkers. I view it similar to the scene in the original Iron Man film where Obidiah Stane asks an engineer to build a copy of the arc reactor, and the engineer said he couldn't do it. Stane yells and says that Tony Stark built the reactor in the cave with a bunch of scraps. The engineer sheepishly replies that he simply isn't Tony Stark. The engineer is the profession, Tony Stark is the Tinker. In WoW the game makes it clear that there's a massive difference between the profession toys and the engineering feats of someone like Gelbin Mekkatorque or Helix Blackfuse. The Tinker would be more in line with Mekkatorque and Blackfuse.

    You missed the part where is said "(and the other professions)". People really want a tinker class and there's nothing wrong with that. But that means the profession engineering isn't all that great short of another crafting profession. I'm no game developer though, I don't know what changes they could make.
    That's exactly what Engineering is supposed to be. A profession can't be anything more than a crafting profession because if you make it more than that then you force players to spec into it in order to be competitive. Again, it was the way you described in earlier iterations of WoW and it was a mess.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Legias View Post
    I think most can at least agree this topic is one that causes much debate. While a new class is always interesting and brings new group dynamics there are a lot of people that would rather see existing classes optimized. From a dev perspective it is definitley easier to add a new class than to add a 4th spec to all existing classes, especially if they continue with the DH shortcut of only making 2 specs.
    No to both. I think it is too much work for too little return. A new class or spec will need to be supported indefinite while adding nothing to the game.

    Right now, I do not see that many monks around, then DH. DK still seems to be relatively common. Would be interesting to see the active classes currently in the game measured by playtime. What is the overall playtime people have invested in the many classes. Not just max levels. That does not indicate anything.

    I am sure Blizzard have this data.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    neither.....blizz can barely balance what they got and that's not even a fault of bad programming or design that's just the nature of having that many different specs...

    and let's just face facts...a new class or spec isn't going to get people to come back to wow or start playing wow

    no one who isn't playing wow is going to be like OMG TINKERS ILL SUB RIGHT AWAY! no veteran who quit wow for whatever reason isn't suddenly going to start playing because shaman can tank now. People who are currently playing will only play the new spec if its any good otherwise wouldn't care.
    OMG Tinkers! I'd sub right away!

    You are arrogant. There have been several polls in this same website where Tinker is the most popular choice for a new class. So sad for you that it isn't a minority like you want to think.

    I have been waiting for Tinkers for the longest time. I remember being disappointed about DH's cause i thought we would finally get Tinkers.
    I would literally resub right away for a Tinker class. Heck, i have even collected transmog for it.
    You don't know s**t about what people want.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-07-08 at 03:30 PM.

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