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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You missed the point entirely just so you could do some insulting. Not surprising I suppose.
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Way better than the mage towers - because they don't permanently lock out some specs.
    Yeah? I am just calling you for what you are. Since you can't do it, then it's too hard for everyone. You used 2-3 months in start of 8.3 to complain about how hard it was for your spec, i.e "locked out". Not surprising you hide your own statements behind "you could do some insulting". When you are like this all the time, it's not hard to call you out on it.

    No - the point is that the mage tower had a binary outcome, there was no progression. You enter, you die - nothing learned for next time.

    The horrific visions are far better because you can progress in them, I can learn from each run and do better each time.
    Not true at all. If you learned from HV, you learned from mistakes in Mage Tower. This is what I mean with disingenuous, you apply this to the one thing you like, but not for the thing you dislike. In Mage Tower you enter, you died, you learn from your mistakes, you learned tactics. In Horrific Visions you enter, you died, you learn from your mistakes, and learn from some tactics. The difference is?

    Mage tower was like a raid with a single mythic end boss with a random instant wipe mechanic.
    Horrific visions are like actual raids, with increasing difficulty, progression and eventually reaching the end or your skill cap.
    HV actually is less difficult the further you progress. Mage Tower was not random, same as HV. If you died in Mage Tower you died from mechanics. If you die in HV, you die of mechanics.

    Like I said, stop being disingenuous. You liking HV is not the thing I am arguing against. I am arguing about you using arguments that gives HV points in your eyes, when same things applied for Mage Tower.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-07-08 at 12:58 PM.
    Gotta train my withered in Sura-a-mar, make them better.
    Unlocking leylines, drinking arcwine, taking it one day at a time.

    Gotta do the dungeons in Sura-a-mar, The Arcway and Court of Stars.
    I'm doing this task, wearing my mask, tryn'a hide away from those guards.

  2. #22
    I did like 10 five mask runs and 50+ four mask runs at this point.
    I just have enough of them. That's just 1 character. Could not imagine running that many on another character.

    I had fun with them when there was still progression being made. New cloak levels, new research unlocked. After that they became stale, and the amount of them required to progress on sockets and echoes of nyalotha is insane. On your 70th run it's really not fun.

    Would be nice if there was some sort of Concordance buff on mother research (unlocked by 5-masking both cities) that would grant you 5% all stats per level and could stack without a limit. This would make farming them more fun, as you would clear them faster and faster.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    You still say that some specs were locked out. That's just flat out wrong. It was a you problem. Visions are easy with any spec, too, as long as you care for the mechanics and dont eat everything.
    Even healers can easily 5 mask them /shrug

    Magetowers had no "random instant wipe mechanic". It's the same as visions: do mechanics. Not hard at all - said by someone that did the tank challenge while it was new.
    Yeah, I really dislike when people argue about one thing being better, when the same things apply for the thing they thought were worse. Even worse when said arguments fits the one thing they dislike more than the thing they like.

    Saying you like Horrific Vision is like, good for you, but making up shit just to try to prove your opinion is valid is just silly. You as in a person, not you :P
    Gotta train my withered in Sura-a-mar, make them better.
    Unlocking leylines, drinking arcwine, taking it one day at a time.

    Gotta do the dungeons in Sura-a-mar, The Arcway and Court of Stars.
    I'm doing this task, wearing my mask, tryn'a hide away from those guards.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Meh, imo HVs suck no matter the perspective
    It was fun learning them with my wife and finding the optimal path organically until full clear with no help from the internet, legit we figured it all out with no research. Sure we wasted a few runs but we did it and now we full clear every time.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - Shadowlands Release Date will be October 20th or 27th, 2020

  5. #25
    Bloodsail Admiral Zephire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    You missed the point entirely just so you could do some insulting. Not surprising I suppose.

    No - the point is that the mage tower had a binary outcome, there was no progression. You enter, you die - nothing learned for next time.

    The horrific visions are far better because you can progress in them, I can learn from each run and do better each time.

    Mage tower was like a raid with a single mythic end boss with a random instant wipe mechanic.
    Horrific visions are like actual raids, with increasing difficulty, progression and eventually reaching the end or your skill cap.
    How can you say you did't learn from failure in mage tower? I don't get it. If you want to you can always learn. Be it that you misstimed something way back resulting in your death because that specific CD wasn't up when you needed it or that you should walk a bit slower or use different consumables and what not.

    The fundamentals are the same but the difficulty is different:
    Visions: Full clear with 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 masks.
    Mage Tower: 1 difficulty and it's equal to 5 masks.

    It doesn't mean you can't progress, you just take smaller steps and slower in Mage Tower.

    OT:
    Tempted to do a 5 mask run in 1st person but... don't think I shall since it's so clustered and just annoying?
    Well met!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Man even if Blizzard gave players bars of gold, they would complain that they were too heavy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    OT:
    Tempted to do a 5 mask run in 1st person but... don't think I shall since it's so clustered and just annoying?
    5 mask 1st person without hud would only be possible by tanks - or very very good people that exactly know what they can pull with how much dmg they would take.
    Imo I wouldn't say that the mechanics are the hard part in 1st person, but mostly the damage you actually take.

  7. #27
    This is what playing everquest used to be like.
    Softbottom - Stormscale

  8. #28
    No thanks, I don't enjoy vomiting
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Mage Tower was actually a challenge. You had to adapt pretty specific playstyle to beat them, but at any of MT challenge I did I never felt frustrated. I was actually eager to run them and seeing that I'm getting better. I enjoyed planning for them, adjusting my builds and consumables.

    As for HVs... you are facing timer, horribly frustrating affixes and sometimes, your success relies on RNG luck having good elixirs around to keep your buffs and sanity high enough. Not really enjoyable content, and I'm doing exactly 1 horrific vision per week right now to keep my corruption resistance high.
    I loved the MT, so you won't hear any argument from me. But HV's are easier in every way imaginable when compared to MT. Finishing my warlock Destro at ilvl 890 after 7 tries, was a huge for my nerd ego. lol

    But with HV's, If you do them in a group of equally geared folks, it trivializes it. Which is why I prefer to do them solo as they're more fun to me that way.

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