Shadowlands Developer Update Livestream - July 8th

[OrcsRLame]

No, you missed the point.

The vast majority of people going 'but wat bout HK OMGG!1" probably yourself included, haven't done anything to materially support HK and don't care whatsoever about HK beyond a few troll posts to attack Blizz and BLM. This is text book virtue signalling.

So, again, complaining about Blizz being a hypocrite and virtue signalling (which it isn't because it has actually donated money - an action) whilst simultaneously virtue signalling oneself is laughable.

I never said Blizzard is virtue signaling, nor did I say that I care about Hong Kong. I'm sure you already knew that though since your advanced overbrain long ago mastered the art of reading.

The point IS about bashing Blizzard. You've just concocted this bizarre alternate reality where people are moralizing about Hong Kong as some kind of smoke screen when no one is actually moralizing about Hong Kong.

You're like a broken clock insisting that other people are virtue signaling when people are just openly criticizing Blizzard.

It's like people are marching down the street shooting off explosives and you're sitting there smugly declaring that we're not as stealthy as we think we are. Like WTF man. No one is hiding that they're criticizing Blizzard.

[Temp1on2]

I never said Blizzard is virtue signaling, nor did I say that I care about Hong Kong. I'm sure you already knew that though since your advanced overbrain long ago mastered the art of reading.

Well then don't reply to me because my comment wasn't directed at you, but in replying I guess the shoe fits?

The point IS about bashing Blizzard. You've just concocted this bizarre alternate reality where people are moralizing about Hong Kong as some kind of smoke screen when no one is actually moralizing about Hong Kong.

So you admit to virtue signalling then?

Complaining that Blizz isn't doing something/talking about a cause you don't care about. LOL.

[OrcsRLame]

Well then don't reply to me because my comment wasn't directed at you, but in replying I guess the shoe fits?

I'm pretty sure the guy you originally replied to also shares my viewpoint. You just didn't hear the dogwhistle. He was being sarcastic if that wasn't obvious. You responded to sarcasm as if it were literal. And then proceeded to smug out all over the rest of the forum.

So you admit to virtue signalling then?

Complaining that Blizz isn't doing something/talking about a cause you don't care about. LOL.

What? No? I thought my authority of nondescript yada yada analogy made my stance abundantly clear. I just don't like being preached at. Fuck your notion of virtue lol. I especially don't like being preached at when the one doing the preaching is guilty of the thing they're preaching about.

It's really really simple. If you wanna preach at me, you better be morally pure. I won't listen to you regardless because I refuse to be shamed into stupid shit, but I at least won't lambaste you as a hypocritical cowardly brainlet, which is my opinion of Blizzard right now.

[Temp1on2]

I'm pretty sure the guy you originally replied to also shares my viewpoint. You just didn't hear the dogwhistle.

If you are using HK as a tool to bash blizz about being a hypocrite and virtue signalling about BLM then my comment applies to you. It's that simple.

I hope that clears things up.

I just don't like being preached at. Fuck your notion of virtue lol. I especially don't like being preached at when the one doing the preaching is guilty of the thing they're preaching about.

You're blinded by your need to lash out. I'm literally criticising the false "notion of virtue", as you put it, of people pretending to care about HK.

I won't listen to you regardless because I refuse to be shamed into stupid shit, but I at least won't lambaste you as a hypocritical cowardly brainlet, which is my opinion of Blizzard right now.

LOL what? No one wants you. You're not special lol. You seriously think anyone cares enough to make you want to do something lololol. I'm not trying to shame anyone into doing anything. Just marvelling at the hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness.

[Malix Farwin]

man even after all this time people still have wrong info on that lol They all got banned because the commentators conspired with Blitzchung to pull that stunt. Also blizzard weren't the ones to initially divy out the punishment, netease was as they manage everything over there. Blizzard chose to back them and later lessened the punishment. Its different to the BLM thing because one Blizzard got involved themselves. Regardless of what you think a company has the right to pick and choose their message. Reason they couldnt openly support the free hong kong thing is that every player in China would lose access to WoW. Idk about you but i would be pissed if that were me and having millions of people fuming at you isnt exactly a situation they want to be in regardless

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lmfao wow hasn't been about the leveling experience since BC. So yes you're old. the leveling experience in all reality has little relevance. all that matters is end game in all reality. yes BFA was bloated but so far SL really isnt like that. In all reality there's basically one system that seems like multiple but isnt. its basically like legion but seemingly actually a progression unlike how BFA was which was a step backwards. Raids, dungeons etc will continue being good as thats never really been an issue in wow and gear is going to be much easier to understand this xpac thats for sure

Doesnt really matter they werentt the ones to ssue it but sure s hell didnt reverse it either. If you want to defend blizzard thats fine but doesnt change any of that.

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Meh, I find it all to be straightforward. But then I'm not under any false pretenses about competitiveness and believe "making the right choice to be comoetitive" is being blown way out of proportion.

I feel those concerned about this already know what is best for their role and should have a good idea of what to choose and innthe end it's not really going to make that much of a difference to non mythic raiding, non bleeding edge of progression people.

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That's your fault entirely. You made a choice tonresub in hopes you heard info you wanted when you could have easily waited 2 more days to see. Don't try to blame Blizzard for you being impatient. Provided you are even telling the truth.

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Huge difference that you seem to be missing. One was a player that was under an agreement not to use Blizzards platform to politicize. Not to mention the initial punishment came from Blizzards Chinese esports offices not Irvine. The difference is plain as night and day.

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They said this fall. Don't think the needed to say anything else.

How is freedom "political" like wtf, why do people keep saying civil rights is "political". Second if you wanna say its "political" then its even worse because they are being gigantic hypocrites with BLM.

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Definitely not the same thing. Not even close. Just the fact that Hong Kong and China(and their sovereignty) are involved already makes this situation way more complicated and harder to navigate than BLM. Just because there were riots here, and riots there, it does not mean it was the same thing. Also you are treating like blizzard as a whole approved the decision on Blitzchung, when we know that there was several people inside of Blizz that were pissed. The situation is not even remotely the same. You are simplifying then to a ludicrous point to say that they are the same, both of them deal with human rights, that is it. One deal with sistemic racism, the other deals with China sovereignty over a troubled colony that up to the 2000s belonged to England. But leaving that aside...

Would you rather have them not correct their mistakes? Because they did correct their mistake, they apologized. After the backlash, sure, but they still did. The other option here is for them to say FUCK CHINA, which is, let's be real, unfeasible.

And I'm sure they are using for PR, but it is still a net positive overall. It is a little oportunistic, no doubt about that, but it also helps.

My point is, when people bring Hong Kong into the conversation it just muddies the waters, not only due to their differences, but people seem to forget that they tried to correct their mistakes, or maybe this push from blizzard might have come from the backlash from Blitzchung too, instead people ignore the possibilities and just like to point out "hipocrisy" in blizzard, which is just way too simplistic.

You want to criticize Blizzard's push into the BLM movement? That is fair game. But if you are going to bring Hong Kong into the conversation, which is plain whatboutism, bring it in context and bring the situation as a whole, this means actions taken afterwards, the dissent that it caused internally, how they both are different and the economic reasons behind it.

After all this, IMHO, I think it's easier to discuss Blizzard's support for the BLM movement isolated. Otherwise the conversation just becomes a tangled mess.

But hey, what do I know? I just a random internet guy, and in the end, the discussion is a little bit pointless.

You argument about it not being the same thing is literally because its another country. Like what? Their lives are being marginalized, they freedoms are being taken away and you literally have to be in a position of privileged to believe that its not the same thing. Its the exact same thing, i have been living through it MY ENTIRE LIFE. So don't try to tell me "its not the same thing" when you clearly have not had to go through it. I do not want a company thats willing to forsake one group of people fighting fights for my people with empty statements and gestures.

[bloodykiller86]

All that matters in retail, are mogs and mounts. Cosmetic shit only transgenders and queers want.

well thats a fucking moronic comment that isn't true at all lol

[Sluvs]

Doesnt really matter they werentt the ones to ssue it but sure s hell didnt reverse it either. If you want to defend blizzard thats fine but doesnt change any of that.

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How is freedom "political" like wtf, why do people keep saying civil rights is "political". Second if you wanna say its "political" then its even worse because they are being gigantic hypocrites with BLM.

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You argument about it not being the same thing is literally because its another country. Like what? Their lives are being marginalized, they freedoms are being taken away and you literally have to be in a position of privileged to believe that its not the same thing. Its the exact same thing, i have been living through it MY ENTIRE LIFE. So don't try to tell me "its not the same thing" when you clearly have not had to go through it. I do not want a company thats willing to forsake one group of people fighting fights for my people with empty statements and gestures.

It's not the same thing because the core of the free hong kong movement is it's sovereignty. The very goal of the movement is different from BLM. In fact, the reason the Free Hong Kong is happening to be more precise is due to how the transition of power happened in the 2000's (from british to chinese government) and how China wants to enforce it's contitution on the island (mainly regarding a law that could help China extradite some people from Hong Kong). The power shift in Hong has led many of it's inhabitants to be critical of the chinese government. The issue about sovereignty is so delicate that when Trump called Hong Kong new Chief in office to congratulate her for winning, China got incredibly pissed. The issue in Hong Kong is Sovereignty.

BLM issue is police brutality and institutional racism.

Not the same thing. Hong Kong is a political minefield. Yes, I'm in a privileged position, no doubt about that. And I'm not trying to invalidate your bad experience or you history. But at the same time, you cannot claim it to be the same thing when you have not been in HK and suffered it aswell. You are not going through what they are, and in the same way, they are not going through what you are. What the situations got in common are that there were riots, and that both are fighting for human rights. But that is about it. They are only similar on a vague sense.

They deal with largely different topics that are results of completely different backgrounds. That is why it's different. It's good that you have empathy for them, but you are not in their shoes, and I'm not saying to stick it with BLM, not at all. I think it's great to get involved with both causes when possible. I'm just saying that they don't mix and match.

Want to discuss Blizzard-Hong Kong? Great, let's do it.

Want to discuss Blizzard-BLM? Perfect, let's dive in.

Want to discuss both at the same time? Well, it's going to get confusing really fast.

I can see where you are coming from with your points, and yes, it would be nice if Blizzard stood with Hong Kong and dealt with Blitzchung in a better way, ofc it would. But if your point is "I dont want their help in situation Y because they did not stand up in situation X", I think it's a weak point. It disregard that they might have learned their lesson with situation X for one.

I mean, you can argue that they could have done more for BLM too (AFAIK, they donated some money and put in a new policy for POC hiring, which can be argued that are not good enough), but at this point what could they have done that would satisfy you? Would you be happier if they did not help at all? Do you want them to help more? Those question are genuine and I actually would like to hear your thoughts on this. (I really not being sarcastic here)

Personally I think both movements are important, and I support both the best way that I can. I understand your points. It is oportunistic of them to use BLM as a PR stunt, that is absolutely true. They should have done more in the Hong Kong debacle, no doubt. I completely agree on these points. The only problem that I have is in equating both. That is all.

[Malix Farwin]

It's not the same thing because the core of the free hong kong movement is it's sovereignty. The very goal of the movement is different from BLM. In fact, the reason the Free Hong Kong is happening to be more precise is due to how the transition of power happened in the 2000's (from british to chinese government) and how China wants to enforce it's contitution on the island (mainly regarding a law that could help China extradite some people from Hong Kong). The power shift in Hong has led many of it's inhabitants to be critical of the chinese government. The issue about sovereignty is so delicate that when Trump called Hong Kong new Chief in office to congratulate her for winning, China got incredibly pissed. The issue in Hong Kong is Sovereignty.

BLM issue is police brutality and institutional racism.

Not the same thing. Hong Kong is a political minefield. Yes, I'm in a privileged position, no doubt about that. And I'm not trying to invalidate your bad experience or you history. But at the same time, you cannot claim it to be the same thing when you have not been in HK and suffered it aswell. You are not going through what they are, and in the same way, they are not going through what you are. What the situations got in common are that there were riots, and that both are fighting for human rights. But that is about it. They are only similar on a vague sense.

They deal with largely different topics that are results of completely different backgrounds. That is why it's different. It's good that you have empathy for them, but you are not in their shoes, and I'm not saying to stick it with BLM, not at all. I think it's great to get involved with both causes when possible. I'm just saying that they don't mix and match.

Want to discuss Blizzard-Hong Kong? Great, let's do it.

Want to discuss Blizzard-BLM? Perfect, let's dive in.

Want to discuss both at the same time? Well, it's going to get confusing really fast.

I can see where you are coming from with your points, and yes, it would be nice if Blizzard stood with Hong Kong and dealt with Blitzchung in a better way, ofc it would. But if your point is "I dont want their help in situation Y because they did not stand up in situation X", I think it's a weak point. It disregard that they might have learned their lesson with situation X for one.

I mean, you can argue that they could have done more for BLM too (AFAIK, they donated some money and put in a new policy for POC hiring, which can be argued that are not good enough), but at this point what could they have done that would satisfy you? Would you be happier if they did not help at all? Do you want them to help more? Those question are genuine and I actually would like to hear your thoughts on this. (I really not being sarcastic here)

Personally I think both movements are important, and I support both the best way that I can. I understand your points. It is oportunistic of them to use BLM as a PR stunt, that is absolutely true. They should have done more in the Hong Kong debacle, no doubt. I completely agree on these points. The only problem that I have is in equating both. That is all.

I've already lost my love for the company so really i am not looking for them to "satisfy me" but instead to not get involved with movements just to get clout and easy PR. When they say BLM it doesnt sound genuine because of the incident with blitzchung. If they didn't want to stand with Blitzchung its fine but its gonna mean that every social injustice they try to stand up for is going to sound empty. Now on to the second point you need to understand why they were fighting for their sovereignty and its because of how oppressive china is. Furthermore they know once they lose it, their freedoms are now gone, that's a pretty big deal.

[SirBeef]

I know, however there's no specifics and nothing narrowing it down by how much it'll be delayed by. Release is in early or late fall now? Winter even?

That is already narrowing it down from by 12-31-2020.

[Shakana]

If covenants fails by being restricted, abilities will be accessible to everyone

Says Ion Hazzikostas on a Interview: https://www.pcgamer.com/wow-covenant...ffer-pcgamertw

"I think, for us, freely being able to change all of these things such that they no longer become part of your character's identity but are just yet another toggle or switch in your loadout ... that's a last resort that we would only turn to if all else has failed along the way," he said. "I'm not completely, irrevocably closing the door to that option, but we see it as a last resort."

[Sluvs]

I've already lost my love for the company so really i am not looking for them to "satisfy me" but instead to not get involved with movements just to get clout and easy PR. When they say BLM it doesnt sound genuine because of the incident with blitzchung. If they didn't want to stand with Blitzchung its fine but its gonna mean that every social injustice they try to stand up for is going to sound empty. Now on to the second point you need to understand why they were fighting for their sovereignty and its because of how oppressive china is. Furthermore they know once they lose it, their freedoms are now gone, that's a pretty big deal.

I see, so you rather have them not helping at all. I can see where you coming from, although I disagree, I can respect that.
And I understand that they fight because of how opressive China is. But they are only similar if you describe them vaguely (fight for you rights, fight for your freedom), that is why I believe it's better to not mix and match. Whether or not Blizz was right in the hong kong situation (IMO blizz fucked up) has no bearing if they should help/not help the BLM movement.