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  1. #1

    Ret getting nerfed hard again in alpha while not addressing gameplay issues.

    The latest build is once again hitting the spec hard with nerfs while still not adjusting the core issues with the spec.

    Ret has a history of being nerfed to the ground in alpha/beta then going into live being unplayable then getting some adjustments later.

    Why is blizzard against ret's being good?

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabmasterxd View Post
    The latest build is once again hitting the spec hard with nerfs while still not adjusting the core issues with the spec.

    Ret has a history of being nerfed to the ground in alpha/beta then going into live being unplayable then getting some adjustments later.

    Why is blizzard against ret's being good?
    Don't worry, it's only alpha, they'll fix it - just like every other expansion clearly proved!

    ...Now with that mandatory, sorry excuse out of the way: Yeah, I'm not expecting much.

  3. #3
    blizz hates ret

  4. #4
    They literally said that tuning is the last thing they do in the alpha/beta cycle. There will be many more numbers passes before this hits live servers.

    Just curious - what gameplay issues do you have with Ret on alpha?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarithras View Post
    They literally said that tuning is the last thing they do in the alpha/beta cycle. There will be many more numbers passes before this hits live servers.

    Just curious - what gameplay issues do you have with Ret on alpha?
    It's not just about the numbers.

    The gameplay of ret has been BAD for a very long time now, it was nerfed at the start of BFA and really slowed the spec down. Early shadowlands alpha they also nerfed Blade of justice again to 12 second cooldown from 10.5 this again slowing the spec down further while it was already slow.

    I was really hoping they would make the spec feel alot better, all paladin abilities deal very little damage and 1 ability does ALL the damage, my crusader strike deals less damage then my auto attack.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabmasterxd View Post
    crusader strike deals less damage then my auto attack.
    This is something I've felt very annoyed by in BFA. Deals less damage - but has a cooldown.

  7. #7
    Epic! Ryuji's Avatar
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    I miss Zeal from Legion. Cleaving CS and hit like a truck. Dunno why it was replaced. Also still not a fan of fenagling about with Execution Sentence, Seraphim and Inquisition. Chances are there will be builds centered around using all 3 talents and I have only ever enjoyed ES when it didn't cost anything. Never liked Seraphim or Inquisition. but that's just my opinion so RIP.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarithras View Post
    They literally said that tuning is the last thing they do in the alpha/beta cycle. There will be many more numbers passes before this hits live servers.

    Just curious - what gameplay issues do you have with Ret on alpha?
    They literally say that in every alpha/beta/patch cycle. It literally never happens. People like you literally always quote them as saying that, despite the fact that it never happens.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    They literally say that in every alpha/beta/patch cycle. It literally never happens. People like you literally always quote them as saying that, despite the fact that it never happens.
    I think you're confusing what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that they'll make changes to the gameplay. I'm arguing that they'll balance and tune all classes/specs before launch. Numerical balance isn't the source of contention with past expansions. It's gameplay. For example, they stated a rework for Shadow and Enhancement going into BfA, but never got around to it.

    I agree they literally always say they'll fix classes during each alpha/beta/patch cycle, but they don't.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarithras View Post
    I think you're confusing what I'm saying. I'm not arguing that they'll make changes to the gameplay. I'm arguing that they'll balance and tune all classes/specs before launch. Numerical balance isn't the source of contention with past expansions. It's gameplay. For example, they stated a rework for Shadow and Enhancement going into BfA, but never got around to it.

    I agree they literally always say they'll fix classes during each alpha/beta/patch cycle, but they don't.
    Yes.. and I'm arguing that despite them "balancing and tuning", the balance and tuning on launch is universally and monumentally shit most of the time. Sometimes it gets a little better as the raid releases, sometimes and for some content it stays functionally broken permanently.

    Relying on Blizzard to "balance" something as a fix for a problem you have is a serious gamble, frequently unlikely to payout in your favour.

  11. #11
    yesterday on the stream ion even said when beta starts everything is feature complete and they will just do number tunings and beta starts next week meaning ret pala will get no major reworks besides some number changes

    them talking about "Seraphim + Inquisition is uncomfortable, we agree" more than 2 months ago and still no follow up just shows they either dont care, or dont have time to do anything about it and will leave it as is, they will probably solve it by nerfing one hard and buffing the other

  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabmasterxd View Post
    It's not just about the numbers.

    The gameplay of ret has been BAD for a very long time now, it was nerfed at the start of BFA and really slowed the spec down. Early shadowlands alpha they also nerfed Blade of justice again to 12 second cooldown from 10.5 this again slowing the spec down further while it was already slow.

    I was really hoping they would make the spec feel alot better, all paladin abilities deal very little damage and 1 ability does ALL the damage, my crusader strike deals less damage then my auto attack.
    as someone who has played it, it actually feels really fun, so idk what they did to it, maybe you are missing something, but its felt pretty quick, and only in torghast with insane builds have i found myself feeling slow, simply because of having like too much stuff to the point it slows.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by apelsinjuice View Post
    yesterday on the stream ion even said when beta starts everything is feature complete and they will just do number tunings and beta starts next week meaning ret pala will get no major reworks besides some number changes

    them talking about "Seraphim + Inquisition is uncomfortable, we agree" more than 2 months ago and still no follow up just shows they either dont care, or dont have time to do anything about it and will leave it as is, they will probably solve it by nerfing one hard and buffing the other
    "Feature complete" does not mean anything for classes, there is many class reworks still coming "feature complete" means the systems.
    he said nothing about "just do number tunings" stop putting words in his mouth.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by apelsinjuice View Post
    yesterday on the stream ion even said when beta starts everything is feature complete and they will just do number tunings and beta starts next week meaning ret pala will get no major reworks besides some number changes

    them talking about "Seraphim + Inquisition is uncomfortable, we agree" more than 2 months ago and still no follow up just shows they either dont care, or dont have time to do anything about it and will leave it as is, they will probably solve it by nerfing one hard and buffing the other
    They also said that Blessing of seasons will get changes in the following weeks so i'm not sure "feature complete" means what people think it means. It just means all systems and zones are in place.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by apelsinjuice View Post
    yesterday on the stream ion even said when beta starts everything is feature complete and they will just do number tunings and beta starts next week meaning ret pala will get no major reworks besides some number changes

    them talking about "Seraphim + Inquisition is uncomfortable, we agree" more than 2 months ago and still no follow up just shows they either dont care, or dont have time to do anything about it and will leave it as is, they will probably solve it by nerfing one hard and buffing the other
    That is not what feature-complete means. Feature complete means that all major features have their framework in place and ready for heavy testing. That does not mean that any class is finished.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by apelsinjuice View Post
    blizz hates ret
    But not as much as they (and the playerbase) hates shadow.

  16. #16
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabmasterxd View Post
    It's not just about the numbers.

    The gameplay of ret has been BAD for a very long time now, it was nerfed at the start of BFA and really slowed the spec down. Early shadowlands alpha they also nerfed Blade of justice again to 12 second cooldown from 10.5 this again slowing the spec down further while it was already slow.

    I was really hoping they would make the spec feel alot better, all paladin abilities deal very little damage and 1 ability does ALL the damage, my crusader strike deals less damage then my auto attack.
    They nerfed the cd because hammer is back? Still a net gain.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Sett's Avatar
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    I expect change sometime during 9.1 or 9.2 tbh.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Humans Paladins don't have "a lot of lore" behind them.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy View Post
    This is something I've felt very annoyed by in BFA. Deals less damage - but has a cooldown.
    This is an effect of auto attack being significantly buffed in Legion. Think of auto attack as separate from the rest of the damage sources.

    I do agree it's a bit annoying that TV does all of the damage and would prefer it to be redistributed a bit, but I don't think auto attack > crusader strike has anything to do with it. More of an issue with generator/spender specs in general.

  19. #19
    how is it possible to nerf something thats already under performing? whats next Windwalker nerfs as well?

  20. #20
    I think the spec basically plays fine on live other than being too reliant on wings (and numbers-wise it is on the low side), but utility is still the big problem. I feel like word of glory was one of the major tools ret brings to m+, and being nerfed to one target is a big kick in the mivonks.

    Like, high-end groups already don't bring ret mostly for utility reasons (no buffs/debuffs, no shroud, poor CC, no tricks, etc) so this is extra annoying. getting BoSac back will be nice for raids but Blessing of the Seasons being incredibly broken and degenerate seems like the only reason for ret to even have a raid spot, let alone an m+ spot.


    (https://mplus.subcreation.net/ - ret is C-tier this week, which is higher than normal!)

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