Ret getting nerfed hard again in alpha while not addressing gameplay issues.

[Swnem]

Also this.
@Swnem If you have complaints about Hunter don't come into a Ret thread in the Paladin forum section to whine about how you think you need attention more, go to your own damn forum section and complain there.

That being said, your whine about hunters in Uldir only pressing two buttons won't come true again now that traits are gone, because it wasn't "fixed later with traits", it was caused by them, specifically the trait that caused Steady Shot to put a stacking debuff on your target that increased the damage of Aimed Shot... Without Azerite traits that problem literally could not have existed, so your complaint about how it "likely will be broken again" without Azerite is based on completely false information. The removal of these traits cannot cause that problem to resurface because THE TRAITS WERE THE PROBLEM. In the future I'd suggest you educate yourself on the issues you wish to complain about before you complain about them instead of wasting everyone's time, including yours. You currently have a case of not knowing the state of your own goddamn spec.

I'm dumbfounded. So, i can only post here if i cry about Ret being in a terrible state? I gave an example of a spec more broken than Ret. I brought up MM but could have brought up another one. Btw, the MM thing is happening again cause Rapid fire is doing less damage. So, it's not only the azerite traits, no. It's bad design when just a small number change is enough to break the spec.
Your attempt at bullying fails cause i am a main Ret and that is why i am here. You'd think you could read my other posts on the matter. Just cause this is a Ret thread, it doesn't mean you are required to cry that it's in an awful state, even when it's not. A bit of perspective doesn't hurt, buddy.

[Clozer]

What gameplay issues? I flew over the thread and everyone complains about issues but no one mentions any??

[Mardux]

I'm dumbfounded. So, i can only post here if i cry about Ret being in a terrible state? I gave an example of a spec more broken than Ret. I brought up MM but could have brought up another one. Btw, the MM thing is happening again cause Rapid fire is doing less damage. So, it's not only the azerite traits, no. It's bad design.
Your attempt at bullying fails cause i am a main Ret and that is why i am here. You'd think you could read my other posts on the matter. Just cause this is a Ret thread, it doesn't mean you are required to cry that it's in an awful state, even when it's not. A bit of perspective doesn't hurt, buddy.

You made a post explaining your perceived
problems with marks then said imagine if ret was like this. You being unable to figure out which subforum you're in and getting called out isn't bullying. Take your snowflake as to the hunter forum with your bs, this one is for ret discussions, not hunter complaints (which is all your post amounted to).

Please refrain from insulting other forum users. -Malthanis

[Dropakeg]

What gameplay issues? I flew over the thread and everyone complains about issues but no one mentions any??

Only thing I've seen is the common argument that too much damage is crammed into wings and it feels like you do jack squat outside your damage cooldown, and also that crusader strike doesn't hit as hard as white hits sometimes. Otherwise, I really like where ret is at.

[Alanar]

They already tried a minor buff system in WoD where the Judgement gave a buff based on your Seal. I don't remember anyone enjoying it.

Also, the half swing sounds like how TV used to work (1/2/3 HoPo) and it never felt good using it with less than 3p.

Seals were very strong if you mastered the zeal+judment + everything else ret had back then. It was mostly the pvp community that realy liked it because of the so cslled skillcap to keep all buffs up and maintain your buffs and rotation. It was alot stronger then the easier choice most people picked final verdict.

[Swnem]

You made a post explaining your perceived
problems with marks then said imagine if ret was like this. You being unable to figure out which subforum you're in and getting called out isn't bullying. Take your snowflake as to the hunter forum with your bs, this one is for ret discussions, not hunter complaints (which is all your post amounted to).

The post was very much Ret based. It was a reply saying that Ret doesn't need a SP level revamp and gave an example of a spec worse off. It's in a good place.
Oh sorry, i'm doing it wrong. It's in an awful dreadful state! It needs a complete revamp cause someone on the forums told me so!

Seriously...

[Unholyground]

I mean, sure, if you ignore all our dead talents and our trash mobility that we've been complaining about nonstop for 5 years, our constantly increasing cooldown times on builders despite complaining for all of BFA about the massive deadzone in our rotation, Retribution Aura even existing...

Yeah, sure.

Maybe go read the beta feedback thread, things are far from peachy.

I gave them the suggestion to bring back pursuit of justice with some flavor by changing the Cavalier talent to do this "While Divine Steed is on cooldown you gain 15% increased movement speed. There I literally fixed their garbage talent row with 5 seconds of thought lol.

[Niwes]

ret ? anyone is still playing this slow, boring, fucked up spec ?

hmm. ok. thought everybody already moved on, to a class/spec that is not forever low end mid ground while feeling like a combination of the worst arms spec design in wow history combined with a wet noodle and an old chewing gum.

so, for the ppl still loving this spec: thumbs up, you tough mofos! respect.

[OrcsRLame]

They literally said that tuning is the last thing they do in the alpha/beta cycle. There will be many more numbers passes before this hits live servers.

Just curious - what gameplay issues do you have with Ret on alpha?

Yeah, cut that shit out. I've been around the block enough times to know that shit in beta = shit on live when it comes to ret.

[Niwes]

I gave them the suggestion to bring back pursuit of justice with some flavor by changing the Cavalier talent to do this "While Divine Steed is on cooldown you gain 15% increased movement speed. There I literally fixed their garbage talent row with 5 seconds of thought lol.

yeah baby, so you also see the problem/reason ? you invested 4 seconds more than Blizz invests in ANY class or spec row.

[Unholyground]

yeah baby, so you also see the problem/reason ? you invested 4 seconds more than Blizz invests in ANY class or spec row.

Well the up-side is they are listening somewhat and there is still hope even if expansion launch is very likely end of October. I am not holding my breath so I decided to go Night Fae for the insane 50% blink-sprint.

[kebabmasterxd]

Also id like to point out, almost any class these days has burst to match with our burst, but i don't see them get taxed for it. Death knights may not have mobility but they do have spammable slows (we dont) and death grip (effectively a gap closer).

So this mobility tax makes no sense anymore.

[Unholyground]

Also id like to point out, almost any class these days has burst to match with our burst, but i don't see them get taxed for it. Death knights may not have mobility but they do have spammable slows (we dont) and death grip (effectively a gap closer).

So this mobility tax makes no sense anymore.

Deaths Advance is better than Divine Steed in every way because it acts like Shaman Ghost Wolf while active, and if you are a Worgen DK you get that 2min sprint which is awesome.

[OrcsRLame]

Well the up-side is they are listening somewhat and there is still hope even if expansion launch is very likely end of October. I am not holding my breath so I decided to go Night Fae for the insane 50% blink-sprint.

I like ret but man I don't want to feel forced into taking the fairy covenant just for the mobility.

[Unholyground]

I like ret but man I don't want to feel forced into taking the fairy covenant just for the mobility.

I like the Blessing of Seasons too, some pretty bursty blessings in there.

[BeepBoo]

Only thing I care (cared?) about is where ret falls on the meters. Class can feel phenomenal to play, but if it ends up being mid/bottom tier all xpac again, it's worthless and not worth the struggle of grinding their dumb fucking grinds to get perfect gear. Especially if it's as large a gap between the good specs and bad specs.

[Powerogue]

They're nerfing ret?! Aw come on, that was my backup alliance character after they screwed over the outlaw rogue by gutting their cooldowns to nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

Only thing I care (cared?) about is where ret falls on the meters. Class can feel phenomenal to play, but if it ends up being mid/bottom tier all xpac again, it's worthless and not worth the struggle of grinding their dumb fucking grinds to get perfect gear. Especially if it's as large a gap between the good specs and bad specs.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite. Everyone I've heard has said that outlaw performed fine on the meters with sustained dps, but playing a rogue feels just goddamn awful when you have no burst dps whatsoever.

[Zarithras]

Yeah, cut that shit out. I've been around the block enough times to know that shit in beta = shit on live when it comes to ret.

You, and many other people in this thread, are conflating tuning with gameplay. Gameplay is pretty static already and unfortunately. Specs like shadow were under heavy fire so they got reworks late in the cycle, but that's an anomaly. Tuning, however, is not static. It will change by the pre-patch. It will change during the pre-patch. It will change once SL is live, and then again likely before the first Mythic raid is launched.

That's why I asked about gameplay. If you have an issue with gameplay, voice it, be upset. Unfortunately, it's likely too late. Tuning, however, is ridiculous to get mad about now.

For example, Demonology was stellar in BfA beta. Many of the raid testing had multiple demo locks and they were out dps'ing everyone. Unholy DK was an absolute monster in the Legion beta. But you know what? Both of those specs were nerfed and not played much in the first patch. Other specs that were garbage in those betas were buffed and saw tons of play.

[Niwes]

Well the up-side is they are listening somewhat and there is still hope even if expansion launch is very likely end of October. I am not holding my breath so I decided to go Night Fae for the insane 50% blink-sprint.

ok, so you are far more progressed with your decisions than me. i am still in the process of

- play SL
- play Classic
- quitting WoW after 15 years



- - - Updated - - -

I like ret but man I don't want to feel forced into taking the fairy covenant just for the mobility.

i think you have to go for a beer with DKs here. if not, no problem. i think you meet many other rets and DKs in the standard faerie covenant auditorium.

[OrcsRLame]

You, and many other people in this thread, are conflating tuning with gameplay. Gameplay is pretty static already and unfortunately. Specs like shadow were under heavy fire so they got reworks late in the cycle, but that's an anomaly. Tuning, however, is not static. It will change by the pre-patch. It will change during the pre-patch. It will change once SL is live, and then again likely before the first Mythic raid is launched.

That's why I asked about gameplay. If you have an issue with gameplay, voice it, be upset. Unfortunately, it's likely too late. Tuning, however, is ridiculous to get mad about now.

For example, Demonology was stellar in BfA beta. Many of the raid testing had multiple demo locks and they were out dps'ing everyone. Unholy DK was an absolute monster in the Legion beta. But you know what? Both of those specs were nerfed and not played much in the first patch. Other specs that were garbage in those betas were buffed and saw tons of play.

No. Tuning is what I'm talking about. Why are you putting words in people's mouths? I remember the Legion beta. I was fine with how ret played, I was not fine with the numbers. And guess what, it released with broken ass numbers that caused a balance clusterfuck that wasn't sorted until Nighthold.