Ret getting nerfed hard again in alpha while not addressing gameplay issues.

[apelsinjuice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9XB..._channel=Savix

kinda says it all, but Shadowlands will "fix" retail right!

ofcourse ret paladin cant beat a shadowpriest, SP had a huge community of thousands and thousands of people spamming reddit, 10k upvote threads about shadowpriest on wow reddit, every big youtuber spamming videos about "state of shadow priest" like preach etc because it was the hot topic to hate on at that time, and forums daily forcing blizzard to make it OP because they cried so much

[ff50dccd-a222-42f3-a786]

It's not about ret vs shadow priest. Have you watched the video?

[Sevarin]

ofcourse ret paladin cant beat a shadowpriest, SP had a huge community of thousands and thousands of people spamming reddit, 10k upvote threads about shadowpriest on wow reddit, every big youtuber spamming videos about "state of shadow priest" like preach etc because it was the hot topic to hate on at that time, and forums daily forcing blizzard to make it OP because they cried so much

spec that was completely reworked with random numbers tossed in and not tuned yet is op! more news at 11!

[Demsi]

spec that was completely reworked with random numbers tossed in and not tuned yet is op! more news at 11!

Balance tuning is already happening so it's not unwaranted to point it out

[Dartz1979]

i for one wont play ret ill play prot to solo questing when alone and holy when in a group ret seems squishy.. i feel same ways about shadow priest when i solo i always go about in disc cause you can well bubble heal and do damage.

[Sevarin]

Balance tuning is already happening so it's not unwaranted to point it out

and spriest numbers are constantly changing. so it kind of is unwarranted to point it out.

[Demsi]

and spriest numbers are constantly changing. so it kind of is unwarranted to point it out.

Because of data and feedback yes

[Sevarin]

Because of data and feedback yes

and you didnt even bother reading the op. have a great day. please read before responding to me next time.

[Powerogue]

How does it play compared to Legion and BFA? Ret felt quite strong and reliable while leveling, IDK what's getting nerfed.

[Tyris Flare]

How does it play compared to Legion and BFA? Ret felt quite strong and reliable while leveling, IDK what's getting nerfed.

Almost exactly the same to bfa except consecrate is baseline.

You lose borrowed power like everyone else obviously, but it plays almost identically at a core level with all the same strengths and weaknesses.

[ff50dccd-a222-42f3-a786]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9XB..._channel=Savix

kinda says it all, but Shadowlands will "fix" retail right!

Meanwhile ret is doing fine in a parallel universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ6s...youtu.be&t=314

[Ealyssa]

Relying on Blizzard to "balance" something as a fix for a problem you have is a serious gamble, frequently unlikely to payout in your favour.

So... why do YOU expect that time to be different ? If you are disappointed, every, single, time. Maybe time to quit ?

Expecting things to be perfect when their is a clear patern of them never being is madness.
When you GF/BF/circle is craycray you either accept it for whatever reason or you move on. Only fools wait for them to "change".

[apelsinjuice]

atleast they removed inqustion and gave us new damage ability

[JohnyCge]

Meanwhile ret is doing fine in a parallel universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ6s...youtu.be&t=314

Video shows lvl 50 balance with azerite traits. Not trying to be harsh to uploader, but thats not shadowlands balance, thats a pre-patch one, plus ret has always been fine against melee. At least Savix is honest with his review, ret has no defense against magic, 1 cc-1 stun and no mobility. Ofc ret will be fine with trinket/set or legendary that either reduces wings cooldown or make them longer as it was for last 5 years. Too bad 9.2 is year or so away. (Hellfire set 3x wings from wod 6.3, golden trait + elisande nerfed-to-the-ground trinket from legion 7.0-7.1 and light decree + vision of perfection from bfa in case you wonder).

[Swnem]

Meanwhile ret is doing fine in a parallel universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ6s...youtu.be&t=314

Please stop.

The class is bad cause it got utility removed, movement speed further reduced with passive becoming an aura.
It lost more utility and survivability with AoE WoG removed and ST one not scaling (also with Kings and wisdom removed).

The only thing that is happening atm is that the new talents are overtuned. They WILL get nerfed cause no one will tolerate Rets one shotting them. Rets are not warlocks afterall.

Once it gets nerfed we are left with the broken remains for 2 years, so PLEASE stop your failed rhetoric. You are not being smart, you are not being knowledgeble, you are actively working for the spec to be broken based on pre-patch lvl50 balance, not SL lvl60. STOP.

[PaladinBash]

The only thing that is happening atm is that the new talents are overtuned. They WILL get nerfed cause no one will tolerate Rets one shotting them.

This is it. This is all you need to see. Every single high damage ability, every interesting interaction, everything good and powerful will be nerfed. Sometimes not even by Blizzard hating Ret, though this is the most common thing, but because some try-hard will cry "this talent is passive, how dare it be better than muh overcomplicated parses technique". They don't want Ret to be bad as such, they just want the most strong talent to be the fiddliest so that they can have a monopoly on their parses because most people won't bother with the awkwardness of setting it up in an already awkward spec. That's to say nothing of the people who will cry that X talent "isn't what Ret needs right nowwwww" like that awesome Tyrael teleporting sword. Yeah it wasn't charge. Yeah it wasn't even heroic leap. You know what it wasn't? Nothing, which is what we got instead. I saw everyone saying they didn't want it, they wanted passive movement, shorter CD on horsey and other shit but instead there was just fucking nothing. This is what always happens. Ret paladins are the most cancerous and insufferable spec of players in the game which makes sense because it's the most awful and hated spec by the developers so only the absolute dregs would play it. I say this as someone that has played it for years. You all know it to be so.

That said, Swnem is right 100% here. There's pisspoor utility that's weaker and harder to use (ty GCD on auras that were passives already lol), there's still no mobility, still shitty defence that's weaker because shattering throw is baseline and fucks over bubble AND shield of vengeance because of course it does. Not to mention free spell reflect too which itself is only great in PVP to lol@stun from baddies that open with it but more they can take a free pick of another talent now in PVP because why not. Compare that to our awesome 'unpruning' which actually made existing abilities worse and gave us...consecrate. It's primary use is an uncapped AOE for killing trivial enemies which wouldn't be a plus unless they added in an AE cap for no reason but they did so yeah, there's that.

All that Ret has is damage which is not impressive and never will be. The second Ret bursts anyone down, as it absolutely can with the right talent setups including that awesome 50 talent, there'll be tears. Yeah other classes can do it more easily and better but that's not what matters. Nobody cares. It's just that if RET can do it, that nerf's coming and it's coming big time. That 1m CD is going to be 2m CD. It's going to do half the damage it does now. It's going to give a 10% increase rather than a 50% increase. It's coming and that will make the spec weak as piss again. Just watch. It'll be that way until a couple of patches in when enough fun things get added which will benefit Ret as a sidelong thing.

This is even to say nothing of legendaries or covenants which are a farce and any good things they do for Ret will be nerfed. They already have been. THat was a given so I have no concern with them at all.

[Delekii]

So... why do YOU expect that time to be different ? If you are disappointed, every, single, time. Maybe time to quit ?

Expecting things to be perfect when their is a clear patern of them never being is madness.
When you GF/BF/circle is craycray you either accept it for whatever reason or you move on. Only fools wait for them to "change".

The argument "if you don't like something, you should just quit" is incredibly annoying and illogical. It makes a great many assumptions, not the least of which are:
1. I don't like anything else about the game.
2. I dislike it enough that it becomes less enjoyable than other options (games or otherwise).
3. I cannot engender change at any point in the future.
4. I can't find an option that I do enjoy, while still continuing to advocate for change despite its unlikelyhood to occur.

My being disappointed isn't reliant on my being surprised. I would hope that _everyone_ is disappointed in Blizzard's incapability to release the game more balanced than they do, including Blizzard themselves.

I am disappointed that I cannot choose the spec that I enjoy playing the most without first considering the performance of that spec relative to other specs. But generally, I can find an option that is enjoyable enough that playing WoW remains enjoyable enough to continue doing.

[ExiHext]

Also not impressed with current ret iteration. The last build made it a bit better, but still many issues, mainly mobility, auras, rotation, covenant abilities and undertuned talents.
I am an absolute casual, only doing m+ and a bit of PvP, so I am less concerned about damage than I am about the overall feel of a class. And ret is going downhill since Legion unfortunately.
Currently unsubbed and still undecided if I am going to buy the expac at all. I like what I see storywise bit I am hesitant to "reward" blizzard with my money for constantly screwing over ret (and paladins in general). When I see other specs getting literally everything they ask for, while rets get hit hard with pruning in a so-called unpruning expac (yeah, we got Cons back...great), I really start to think they cannot always p*ss on us and tell us it's raining.

[Ealyssa]

The argument "if you don't like something, you should just quit" is incredibly annoying and illogical.

But it's not mine...
Mine is "Why expecting something you never liked to somehow change ?"

Moving the goalpost is useless. You said wow's expansion cycle was never balanced (which is true), yet you want it to be. That's stupidity.

[Kalisandra]

Almost exactly the same to bfa except consecrate is baseline.

You lose borrowed power like everyone else obviously, but it plays almost identically at a core level with all the same strengths and weaknesses.

But slower, even compared to BfA ret with no azerite or essences. Blade of Justice is on a 12s instead of 10.5s CD and, if Blade of Wrath turns out to be less DPS than Empyrean Power then that'll add more empty GCDs.