Ret getting nerfed hard again in alpha while not addressing gameplay issues.

[Kalisandra]

That's to say nothing of the people who will cry that X talent "isn't what Ret needs right nowwwww" like that awesome Tyrael teleporting sword. Yeah it wasn't charge. Yeah it wasn't even heroic leap. You know what it wasn't? Nothing, which is what we got instead. I saw everyone saying they didn't want it, they wanted passive movement, shorter CD on horsey and other shit but instead there was just fucking nothing. This is what always happens. Ret paladins are the most cancerous and insufferable spec of players in the game which makes sense because it's the most awful and hated spec by the developers so only the absolute dregs would play it. I say this as someone that has played it for years. You all know it to be so.

No, we didn't want that awful leap because we already had a decent mobility setup.

[Demsi]

No, we didn't want that awful leap because we already had a decent mobility setup.

Not sure what game you played but it wasn't wow, we had terrible and i mean terrible mobility setup in legion.

[Kalisandra]

Not sure what game you played but it wasn't wow, we had terrible and i mean terrible mobility setup in legion.

We had a decent mobility setup in MoP and WoD, and that was going to be replaced by that awful, awful leap in Legion, and was instead replaced by the (also terrible) pony. Thus, we didn't want the leap because we already had a decent mobility setup (WoD's choice of Speed of Light/Pursuit of Justice/Long Arm of the Law).

[Sigxy]

We had a decent mobility setup in MoP and WoD, and that was going to be replaced by that awful, awful leap in Legion, and was instead replaced by the (also terrible) pony. Thus, we didn't want the leap because we already had a decent mobility setup (WoD's choice of Speed of Light/Pursuit of Justice/Long Arm of the Law).

I remember that Blizzard backed out on the leap ability because "it didn't fit the class fantasy".

Same expansion: We could have a paladin follower, Arator, who kept leaping at opponents since launch. And then his daddy Turalyon did the same thing on Argus.
And let's just ignore Tirion doing it eversince WotLK, naturally.

[Stormslap]

The latest build is once again hitting the spec hard with nerfs while still not adjusting the core issues with the spec.

Ret has a history of being nerfed to the ground in alpha/beta then going into live being unplayable then getting some adjustments later.

Why is blizzard against ret's being good?

Hello, enhancement shamans are calling, we just wanted to call and say "welcome to the club, it only gets worse", seriously, until you've been on the shitshow of a roller coaster that shamans are on, barring MAYBE resto SOMETIMES, you really don't know just how off the wall and disconnected from a developer, to class, to player system they are.

[Kalisandra]

Hello, enhancement shamans are calling, we just wanted to call and say "welcome to the club, it only gets worse", seriously, until you've been on the shitshow of a roller coaster that shamans are on, barring MAYBE resto SOMETIMES, you really don't know just how off the wall and disconnected from a developer, to class, to player system they are.

Oh, we know. It's the hybrid tax, just not in the form people think.

[Delekii]

But it's not mine...
Mine is "Why expecting something you never liked to somehow change ?"

Moving the goalpost is useless. You said wow's expansion cycle was never balanced (which is true), yet you want it to be. That's stupidity.

It's not at all stupid to want something that isn't. It's stupid to expect something that isn't.

I definitely don't expect it to change. That doesn't mean I don't WANT it to change, nor that I won't advocate for it to change.

[ThiagoTorres]

I remember that Blizzard backed out on the leap ability because "it didn't fit the class fantasy".

Same expansion: We could have a paladin follower, Arator, who kept leaping at opponents since launch. And then his daddy Turalyon did the same thing on Argus.
And let's just ignore Tirion doing it eversince WotLK, naturally.

And ppl still cry to blizzard about mobility, they want paladins to be a rock, static on fights..

And the majority of pally players are healers, thats why they will rework holy to synergy better with holy power and they dont give a fuck to ret..

[Demsi]

We had a decent mobility setup in MoP and WoD, and that was going to be replaced by that awful, awful leap in Legion, and was instead replaced by the (also terrible) pony. Thus, we didn't want the leap because we already had a decent mobility setup (WoD's choice of Speed of Light/Pursuit of Justice/Long Arm of the Law).

The leap was far preferable over steed, if you ask me we should've had the mobility row we had in MoP and WoD aswell as the leap ability.

[Malthanis]

I have to admit, it's funny (in a sad way) that the expansion beta complaints of Retribution paladins have been essentially the same since Wrath dropped: can we please have some mobility, and can we please stop being docked for simply having utility.

[Aggrophobic]

Yeah, I really do feel for you guys.
The spec is just filled with GCD issues, mobility issues and even with a whole bag of utility it's still not as usefull as you'd think most of the time.
I love the idea of a paladin but I don't think I'd ever consider playing ret.

[ExiHext]

Yeah, I really do feel for you guys.
The spec is just filled with GCD issues, mobility issues and even with a whole bag of utility it's still not as usefull as you'd think most of the time.
I love the idea of a paladin but I don't think I'd ever consider playing ret.

One problem is that our utility is (with the loss of BfA WoG) completely single target. One guy at the official forums suggested ret should lose BoSanc and gain Aura Mastery (not sure if he meant holy's AM or old WoD AM). Wouldn't be opposed to that.
On the other hand that would still not address issues with our mobility, talents like FoJ, JV being dead for 2 expacs now and undertuned talents like EP and Divine Purpose.

[3liiil3]

In my opinion, some talents can be baked in or made baseline to free up new space for more interesting and fun talents, for example:
- Righteous Verdict
- Fires of Justice
- Blade of Wrath
- Fist of Justice
- Unbeatable Spirit
- Healing Hands

EP can be moved in RV spot, after having RV baked in TV, making the second row ready for reintroducing our mobility talents:
Speed of Light/Pursuit of Justice/Long Arm of the Law

Needless to say, Divine Steed to be deleted.

Divine aura to go back as passive, and replace it with another interesting one instead.

The addition of Final Reckoning and the revert of ES, is giving me hope that maybe it’s not over yet, more iteration could be coming soon.

[lunethzero]

Meanwhile ret is doing fine in a parallel universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ6s...youtu.be&t=314

To quote Preach, "Just because something is fine, doesn't make it GOOD. Some classes can be good but still have glaring problems."

- - - Updated - - -

atleast they removed inqustion and gave us new damage ability

Unfortunately Crusade is gonna be BiS just like it was for the last 2 expacs...

[Gloriandus]

According to this, numerous abilities are coming off the GCD in SL, including AW and Holy Avenger.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyLaconicQuailLeeroyJenkins

[ExiHext]

According to this, numerous abilities are coming off the GCD in SL, including AW and Holy Avenger.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyLaconicQuailLeeroyJenkins

Doesn't fix our most glaring issues but I guess a lot of people would welcome those changes.

[apelsinjuice]

Doesn't fix our most glaring issues but I guess a lot of people would welcome those changes.

better than nothing at least

[ExiHext]

better than nothing at least

We don't even know if it's a 100% true. As much as I heard it is just a rumor (I don't really see them doing that, after being adamant about this for so long)...but we will know later this day. And to be quite frankly, I would be very disappointed if those where the only changes besides perhaps some numbers tuning.
I already accepted that they won't do anything for our mobility, but they should at least change Retribution Aura, it's an abomination. And they should tune things like EP and Divine Purpose properly...15% proc chance is laughable. It should be at least 20% for both.

[Swnem]

We don't even know if it's a 100% true. As much as I heard it is just a rumor (I don't really see them doing that, after being adamant about this for so long)...but we will know later this day. And to be quite frankly, I would be very disappointed if those where the only changes besides perhaps some numbers tuning.
I already accepted that they won't do anything for our mobility, but they should at least change Retribution Aura, it's an abomination. And they should tune things like EP and Divine Purpose properly...15% proc chance is laughable. It should be at least 20% for both.

I mean, they could maybe bring back sanctity aura for Ret, if they want to do something useful with the spec.

Retribution aura is trash. The passive was mostly trash, just a funny thing that happened and you could laugh at the fail.

I still say crusader aura would be useful if it affected all movement and not just mounted

But, apparantly, no. Ret must be trash and that's that.

I mained Ret since TBC and i am pondering maining something else. I mean... it's dumb at this point. Every other class seems to bring a more useful buff/debuff/utility and there is no way in hell they will allows us to be a top dps spec.
Makes me wonder what is even the point. Even enhancement brings windfury totem again. If we get WoG, kings and wisdom removed, what is even the point? No utility, no high damage, no survivability... like bubble is all we got to cheese abilities, but so does prot and holy.
I get the feeling blizz wants to remove Ret.

[Sigxy]

According to this, numerous abilities are coming off the GCD in SL, including AW and Holy Avenger.

https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyLaconicQuailLeeroyJenkins

If this is true, that's awesome. I've really enjoyed the new talent we've got but it was awkward to set it up with AW.