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  1. #181
    If Blizzard did a cease and desist on every single WoW guide site, MMO-Champ, Wowhead, etc. then yeah, Classic raids would've taken a lot longer for most people to clear.

    They didn't do that though. Part of the reason the raids are an utter joke is how laughably easy it is to find information about the content with a simple google search. It was a lot harder to do that back in 2004.

    Same applies to leveling. EVERYONE was new in 2004. The only way to create the authentic Classic experience everyone who played it years ago wanted would've been to erase all of their existing knowledge.

  2. #182
    Its always funny to see 2020 players compare themselves to 2004 players. We didn't have your shitloads of addons and wowhead and even youtube videos and guides and past experience and endless lists of resources to go kill Cthun. Hell we didn't even have discord we had to rely on some crappy ventrillo and some players were on fucking dial up connections.
    WoW forums in a nutshell:
    m8 i've been around since Feb 2005, I know it all.
    So I was using ***cheat***. I don't know why i was banned for this. It is so unfair.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    KEKW...

    The shit you're talking about? What you are listing is below minimum system requirements for WoW at launch, so cut the crap - it was 2005, not frikkin' 1999.

    I played Vanilla and back then my computer was nothing to write home about, but it was already enough for 1280×1024 resolution which was standard for CRT monitors back then, this is also resolution people ran game at or at least 1024x768 if one had some ancient hardware. The only thing that was FPS nightmare for me back then was specific spot or two in AV, like the hill in the middle.

    Now, I am sure there were people with absolute atrocious potato PCs with something like Voodoo 3s and Pentium 3s in 2005 in some weird ass 3rd world countries that did not have broadband in 2005, but at that point they were simply not at minimum system requirements, so /shrug
    Your reality and my reality were quite different, then. We got broadband in around 2007 (commercially available for middle-income families I mean, not generally available for the government/companies/banks etc, that was 2003-2004) where I'm from. The specs I gave you are what I remember from 15 years ago. The one thing I'm 100% certain is correct is the Pentium 3 at 700 MHZ. It was on a bright blue-silver sticker on the PC box. The 56k modem is also 100% true, I remember to this day the screeching sounds it made. I relied on my neighbourhood's internet cafe to raid properly. Along with the rest of my classmates. I'm from Greece btw. Where might you be from mate?
    Last edited by Dalinos; 2020-07-11 at 03:30 PM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalinos View Post
    Your reality and my reality were quite different, then. We got broadband in around 2007 (commercially available for middle-income families I mean, not generally available for the government/companies/banks etc, that was 2003-2004) where I'm from. The specs I gave you are what I remember from 15 years ago. The one thing I'm 100% certain is correct is the Pentium 3 at 700 MHZ. It was on a bright blue-silver sticker on the PC box. The 56k modem is also 100% true, I remember to this day the screeching sounds it made. I relied on my neighbourhood's internet cafe to raid properly. Along with the rest of my classmates. I'm from Greece btw. Where might you be from mate?
    Broadband in 2007? Didn't it launch in 2003 in Greece?... Israel here, I think I had broadband already in 2001, 2002 for sure - was mass downloading movies and shit already back then. And it was already available for everyone for small price.

    I think you are exception not a rule, I mean, sure there are some countries that legit did not have broadband in 2005, but holy hell that was some late bloomers there and I am shocked to hear a country in Europe did not have that widely available back then. Vanilla practically had "broadband connection" as minimum requirement.

    Same goes for Pentium III, that's CPU from 1999. My PC was definitely not the bleeding edge back then with single core Athlon 64 and Radeon 9500 PRO, both which were 3 years old stuff when WoW launched, but they were certainly more than enough almost everywhere back then, except for AV - it was somewhere between minimum and recommended specs.

    But no, certainly not 800x600 gaming in 2005... I mean... that's liek 1998 resolution.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Its always funny to see 2020 players compare themselves to 2004 players. We didn't have your shitloads of addons and wowhead and even youtube videos and guides and past experience and endless lists of resources to go kill Cthun. Hell we didn't even have discord we had to rely on some crappy ventrillo and some players were on fucking dial up connections.
    We already had basic bossmods in AQ and some of them were extremely powerful, such as Decursive because API allowed actual gameplay automation.

    You had alerts, timers and mods aplenty. I been there on C'thun and back in the time it was a challenge, but now that I think about - it was mostly because of insane spirit run that really slowed down the whole progress there. I even think we had range checker already, pretty basic one, but did all we needed there.

    You did not have "wowhead", but you had warcraft movies site, thottbot and forums - people who were actually progressing raids were not in the dark there, except for very first kills world.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Naxx came out in patch 1.11. The gear changed in patch 1.10. AQ40 gear was never changed. So you're gonna retract everything you said when Naxx gets cleared an hour after launch, right? What's gonna be your excuse then?
    Again read it and weep! https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...elease_to_112/ For those of us who were there from the very launch in vanilla remember that there wasnt even enough quests for you to level up with so....

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Its always funny to see 2020 players compare themselves to 2004 players. We didn't have your shitloads of addons and wowhead and even youtube videos and guides and past experience and endless lists of resources to go kill Cthun. Hell we didn't even have discord we had to rely on some crappy ventrillo and some players were on fucking dial up connections.
    Agree

    The thing with the old VAnilla is that the classes are terribly designed, itemisations, quests were so wrong and limited. Players' power is so low that makes things hard. I'm sure kids 2020 didn't know that druid did not have innervate baseline till late vanilla, fury warr wasn't a thing till 1.11. Most healing spells' casting time and mana costs were higher before 1.6 If I remember right. Raid drops were so limited. like 30 items for 40m raid, not all of them are useful.

    The computer and the internet at that time were also terrible. Imaging raiding with 20 FPS at medium setting and 500-700ms... I recalled we didn't have raid markers till ZG or BWL. Tanks had to /assist the raid leader to get their targets.

    I believe the source of confusion and misunderstanding is the WOW classic 1.12. New players jumped in, played the easy more classic 1.12 with modern hardware and game guides then called it a faceroll. While veteran player said vanilla was hard, they meant that at a particular time in the past, at patch 1.x, with their potato PC and slow internet, the game was hard.

    IF you didn't play during that time, pls don't call old players bad. It's unfair to compare while ignoring other variables.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by ntlntl View Post
    I believe the source of confusion and misunderstanding is the WOW classic 1.12. New players jumped in, played the easy more classic 1.12 with modern hardware and game guides then called it a faceroll. While veteran player said vanilla was hard, they meant that at a particular time in the past, at patch 1.x, with their potato PC and slow internet, the game was hard.

    IF you didn't play during that time, pls don't call old players bad. It's unfair to compare while ignoring other variables.
    I played at that time and it's a load of bull - Vanilla was tedious, not "hard". I mained a Paladin and 95% of what I ever did in raids is spam Flash of Light smart macro that picked lowest HP friendly and casted FoL on it - macros could do that back then. Remaining 5% you would Divine Favor Holy Light bomb a tank or do some cherry picked Holy Lights and some shit like that. Then at times you spammed Decursive and you used Pally Power to automate blessings.

    My Warlock alt in raid? Spam Shadow Bolt, put your assigned curse up and use tap for what it's worth. Farm shards before raid. That's about it.

    You did not need impeccable FPS and real time latency for that crap.

    That's it. That was the whole "raiding". Until C'thun there were barely any real mechanics to begin with. Most bosses had 1 or 2 mechanics that were their "thing" and the rest was just fluff and the whole progression was artificially bloated with those insane spirit runs in raids.

    The vast difference between back then and now IS the fact that back then players sucked balls, average skill level and preparedness, knowledge and most importantly competitiveness of your average player rose immensely over the years.

    Despite said tedium, ironically it was the most noob friendly game there was back then and one of its big advantages was the concept of endgame being important instead of this endless leveling up crap that was plaguing mmos back then - I came from Lineage II, Ragnarok and some other shit MMOs of the time and basically it was "leveling - the game", WoW was refreshing in that you could get to 60 reasonably fast and actually have something there instead of some shitty "prestige" system.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2020-07-11 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #188
    Said for years that it would be a joke and that anyone can go on a private server to check for themselves. Sure enough, it was. Anyone that chooses to get upset now after years of plugging their ears and ignoring all of the people making that same point I have zero sympathy for.
    Maybe instead of making thousands of threads claiming classic will be difficult and take a long time to finish raiding, immediately having that notion argued, not making a single counter argument and having the same thread made the next day, they should have been paying attention to every single private server that has been out for the past decade before classic launched.
    Last edited by Dequanacus; 2020-07-11 at 07:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  9. #189
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    I had to check the date of this topic if it was not a year old.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    and with strange Aeons even Death may die.

  10. #190
    The only person who needs to "put this to bed" is yourself. You literally brought this up out of nowhere months and months past when this was even a hot topic.

    Sounds like someone was on the "classic raids will take months to clear" bandwagon and is now trying to walk back their nonsense.

    The three reasons you stated aren't even that relevant. The main reason raids were cleared as fast as they were is the raids are just incredibly simple and easy as most people who weren't wearing their cognitive bias glasses attested to well before classic even came out.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Broadband in 2007? Didn't it launch in 2003 in Greece?... Israel here, I think I had broadband already in 2001, 2002 for sure - was mass downloading movies and shit already back then. And it was already available for everyone for small price.
    You are talking about a country that thought Internet was evil and overpriced and not needed (hint it wasnt for back then)until Facebook, after that in 2008 it saw an increase in commercial connections by 1000% and another 2000% in the next 2 years, because of Facebook, we are talking from 120.000 connections, to 1.2mil, to 3mil in 2 years.

    Its a fucking sad country full of uneducated animals sadly.

    So no, its not surprising if he didnt have DSL in 2005 but yeah, the reality is, majority of Greeks outside the big cities would have what he is describing, but even in the big cities it would be like that, the scaling of technical knowledge varies so insanely even inside the cities in certain areas, depending how impactful the net cafe culture is.
    Last edited by potis; 2020-07-11 at 07:57 PM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    It's funny I stopped playing in WoD but did LFR actually become challenging? I remember being able to tank stuff as a clothy and live, completely disobey raid mechanics, even afk on the fights and still come out victorious.
    Pretty sure you didn't do that on Durumu in Throne of Thunder.

  13. #193
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Who gives a flying fuck if it's hard or not? Too many of you buy into the dick swinging of 'harder is better' (pun *fully* intended...).

    My guild blasts through MC and clears BWL with 2 groups in a bit over a hour. We're good but not amazing. The content isn't that hard at all, at least not once you get reasonable gear and have people who've seen the fights a few times.

    So what? We have fun. We're not out to pump up our egos by saying we're in the top few percent of WoW players. And you know what? Very VERY few players are, either in classic or retail. Almost all players in either version of the game either a) don't raid, b) raid occasionally or c) raid normal or at most heroic. Mythic raiders are a small percentage of retail and raids the clear mythic are an even smaller percentage. Why? Because for the vast majority of people, WOW is a game that's there to entertain them and they don't find entertainment in doing the hardest levels.

    The point isn't whether classic is easy, hard or insane. It's whether it's fun. For some of us, it is. For those of you who dislike it... go play retail. We don't care if you don't like Classic, any more than you care if we don't like retail.

  14. #194
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Only if you completely ignore heroic and mythic, due to essences, cloak, and corruptions. This has been raised multiple times, and you are yet to address it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    OP completely ignores this reality, and instead starts rambling on about time to level and LFR/normal.
    Yeah, the truth is difficult to handle for some.

    I have seen thousands of people over the years who unironically called Classic raid design the most challenging content this game ever had since. The OP has a selective outlook.

    Those who tried to educate the delusionals were swiftly mobbed by the fanboi cirkle jerking, fueled by some content creators desperate to feel relevant.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2020-07-11 at 08:09 PM.
    Liberté, égalité, fraternité
    ⭑・゚゚・*:༅。.。༅:*゚:*:✼✿ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ✿✼:*゚:༅。.。༅:*・゚ ゚・⭑
    Number of retail servers listed at High/Full in EU alone; 79.
    That's up by 13 since I last counted them in 8.2, and more than Classic has in total server count. Retail servers have higher pop capacity. Just a note to combat "ClAsSiC hAs AlL TeH PlAyErS"-derps.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinaa View Post
    I'm not claiming that Vanilla raids were ever hard, however the modern healing addons, boss mods certainly help a ton. Back then you had to beg ppl to install addons, with mixed success.
    Healing addons were stronger in vanilla, before Blizzard figured out the API and stopped shit like Decursive.

  16. #196
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Healing addons were stronger in vanilla, before Blizzard figured out the API and stopped shit like Decursive.
    Uh... I used Decursive all the time. On my mage. In Classic.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I too feel that classic had a much more interesting challenge. In retail, when I was doing heroic/mythic raids, it was really just about doing your rotation, knowing when to pop survival CD's, and staying out of the bad stuff. Like if Ony breathed on the raid, people would for sure be dying. But on retail, you could pop a survival CD in this type of position and be fine.
    yes onyxia is so hard.. jesus christ rolling my eyes, go check the video on wowhead where a raid full of naked characters defeat onyxia

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Uh... I used Decursive all the time. On my mage. In Classic.
    you seem to have a memory lapse or you didn't play the game. at one point in vanilla you could use decursive to dispel anyone with a press of a button. you didn't need any macros or target anyone, the addon automatically dispelled anyone in your raid if you just spammed the hotkey. blizzard fixed that later (i think it was in mid naxx)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Yeah, the truth is difficult to handle for some.

    I have seen thousands of people over the years who unironically called Classic raid design the most challenging content this game ever had since. The OP has a selective outlook.

    Those who tried to educate the delusionals were swiftly mobbed by the fanboi cirkle jerking, fueled by some content creators desperate to feel relevant.
    I've seen the same, OP is full of shit. i mean one search in r/classicwow or r/wow on reddit would show you that. LFR is also 1000 times harder than any vanilla boss. people are still wiping on vexiona and ra-den AND EVEN ON TRASH in LFR. not to mention n'zoth..
    Last edited by gosuabbbff; 2020-07-11 at 09:51 PM.

  18. #198
    The OP is 100% a liar. Leading towards the release of Classic, there were dozens of threads on this site talking about how difficult it would be and that "retail casuals" should just stay away from Classic. So yeah, there were plenty of people who claimed that old raids were complex and difficult but LFR raids are more complex and difficult than vanilla raids.

  19. #199
    >almost a year later
    >retail players are still seething over Classic and making shitposts like this thread
    feels good man
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    >almost a year later
    >retail players are still seething over Classic and making shitposts like this thread
    feels good man
    except OP is trying to defend classic and its fanbase, maybe read his post before making such an idiotic comment? besides even if that was the case the classic/vanilla crowd deserves every bit of shit being flung at them for making false claims about the game's supposed "difficulty" and for making retail players feel bad for playing a "braindead children's game with no difficulty". what did you really expect after badmouthing retail and its playerbase for so long?
    Last edited by gosuabbbff; 2020-07-11 at 09:51 PM.

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