The Great Classic Raid Lie

[Specialka]

Vanilla or Classic was not hard, it was tedious. Use the right word. Period.

[Kaneiac]

Guy on my server got it in 1 month and and a week on an alt because if brackets.

From that point on he had basicly all the gear he needed to get invited to naxx.

I've been lazy and unlucky with loot. I still have 2 blue weapons and takin g my sweet time to farm in for lionheart helm. You know why? It doesnt matter.

Me doing 100 more dps literally doesnt matter.

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Most raiding guilds already have that in classic now.

Its gonna be cleared a few hours after release

Getting r14 in a month let alone a week is literally impossible. Not "try harder and you can do it" - literally never ever ever possible.

[Garymorilix]

This thread is being re-made every single time someone feels insecure about their actual gaming skills and feels the need to prove why they don't suck at it.

Classic is a joke difficulty wise. I'm not saying you can't enjoy it for what it is but it's the least difficult version of WoW ever to exist.

You can make up all the useless argument how X is more time consuming so it means it's difficult, nobody gives a shit. It's not difficult.
No matter how you "define" difficult, it just isn't.

Let's say you needed a ring with a special effect on every single raid member to be able to kill N'zoth, but the ring only had like 0.1% drop rate from critters on Mechagon.
Would it make it more difficult?
I'm pretty sure some lunatic would label this as difficulty.

In reality, it's piss easy and if you even fail at that level of easy content while playing a class that only requires you to press 1 button as a rotation then you are a horrible player period. Fact.

[ClassicPeon]

Yeah, but "leveling your cloak and corruptions" or w/e the fck the other guy was talking about to signify how much "time you need to invest at the top level of retail" is not a expression of skill either.

The point is that clearing mythic fast is considered the top end of retail WoW whereas clearing MC in 4 hours with 40 Paladins is not, I don't see 40 paladins running a sub 20 minute BWL, do you?

Progressing through mythic raids on retail is MUCH harder then anything you can do in classic.

The fact that a bunch of fire mages with bis gear can stroll through it is an end of expansion gimmick. its not comparable

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Getting r14 in a month let alone a week is literally impossible. Not "try harder and you can do it" - literally never ever ever possible.

Your post doesnt make any sense. Try again

[Thunderball]

What other things besides the talents are you talking about here that helped people level faster? The 1.12 talents might have made it like 5% faster for me. Didnt really make much of a difference in the long run.

Vanilla was just piss easy :/

New quests, new rewards for some existing quests, more xp (including GREATLY increased dungeon xp) for kills and quests, more currency rewards, improved rested xp, nerfed mobs, new flight paths. I'm probably forgetting something ofc, so that's just what comes to mind initially.

Let's not lie to this forum - you've never played vanilla.

[Erwarth]

New quests, new rewards for some existing quests, more xp (including GREATLY increased dungeon xp) for kills and quests, more currency rewards, improved rested xp, nerfed mobs, new flight paths. I'm probably forgetting something ofc, so that's just what comes to mind initially.

Let's not lie to this forum - you've never played vanilla.

Neither did you. And even if you did, chance are you don't remember it because human memory is unreliable as fuck.

[ClassicPeon]

New quests, new rewards for some existing quests, more xp (including GREATLY increased dungeon xp) for kills and quests, more currency rewards, improved rested xp, nerfed mobs, new flight paths. I'm probably forgetting something ofc, so that's just what comes to mind initially.

Let's not lie to this forum - you've never played vanilla.

HAHA because i cant remember what happened more then 10 years ago?

Thats pathetic.

THe fact that you act like you literally remember these things Jesus chris.

"LEVELING WAS 2000 million times faster in classic! Vanilla was much tougher man!"

Get over it. Its laughable

[Mysterymask]

Plenty thought they were somehow peak difficulty. Just like plenty thought Vanilla was hard or complex.

Literally none of them were correct.

Vanilla difficulty came from the following

-MMO genre being new and most players being new..not knowing what to do
-The last 2 raids barely anyone saw
-THEN one of them went away so there's that feeling of mystery for the people who started in Wrath...and a huge chunk of vanilla players who never saw original naxx and WoTLK Naxx being cleared day one by a bunch of level 78s in T6

add in that perpetual list of how long it took a raid to clear with C'thun topping said list (cause it was bugged), Atiesh and Corrupted Ashbringer being lost to time, etc etc....and you get a full blown legend on Vanilla being top tier difficult raid

[Fathr]

There are countless examples of players who never played vanilla, never played PS, and don't do anything beyond MAYBE dabbling in normal on retail clearing all content so far without any issues at all. Problem is much of the classic community just flat out refuses to accept this is a reality for many people.

Bwl wasn't cleared only by a few "bleeding edge" guilds - it was like 2500 guilds within 12 hours of launch - and those are just the ones who logged.

Patch 1.12 and kungen syas hi - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EceXu5rX...png&name=large
So in fact things have changed so that classic is NOT Vanilla and shares no denominator with it besides the bosses in there, the talent trees and the loot makes it a faceroll for anyonw who was there in actual Vanilla. Back in the day, it took days before the secrets of how to beat bosses, were spread out by world first guilds, it took days and sometimes weeks before strategies were shared. He'll no one back then used stacking besides cutting edge, and fotm specs were non abundant, today anyone can spend an hour and they'll know everything they need to before going into raid xx incl. specs strategies, hell even BIS lists are an abundant. Back in the day we used our own spreadsheets to calculate wether or not an item was an upgrade....

So TLDR - Classic is NOT vanilla, and can never be compared to it as the content is old as dirt, and have been beaten gazillions of times allready, and there are no secrets to discover anymore, you can learn all you need to know in a hour by searching the web.

[ClassicPeon]

Patch 1.12 and kungen syas hi - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EceXu5rX...png&name=large
So in fact things have changed so that classic is NOT Vanilla and shares no denominator with it besides the bosses in there, the talent trees and the loot makes it a faceroll for anyonw who was there in actual Vanilla. Back in the day, it took days before the secrets of how to beat bosses were spread out by world first guilds took days and sometimes weeks. He'll no one back then used stacking besides cutting edge, and fotm specs were non abundant, today anyone can spend an hour and they'll know everything they need to before going into raid xx incl. specs strategies, hell even BIS lists are an abundant. Back in the day we used out own spreadsheets to calculate wether or not an item was an upgrade....

Newsflash. Its faceroll without those aswell. Sorry


And what secrets are you talking about? The secret of not standing in shit and aa'ing?

[TrollHunter3000]

You would classify walking from coast to coast as easy?

Is there not a time limit? Then yes. It would just take a long fucking time. Even a fatty fuck could do it eventually. And as another poster pointed out, we're not exactly talking about a physical activity here.

If anything, this would be about as difficult as marathon watching a TV series or some shit. Or worst case if you find the game extremely boring then watching paint dry. Boring as fuck? Yes. Difficult? No.

[Mrbleedinggums]

Thats my point the reason Classic wow is perceived as HARD is because of the grinding and scarcity of things to make some fights work.
those who dont think so are either stupid or dont really know what some things require

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if you had bothered to read my post you would understand im not trolling, nor am i being 100% serious.

classic raids are perceived harder as they require more effort in relation to grinding arduous and annoying content to have shit drop rates,
viscidus as i used in my previous post, is LITERALLY unkillable without frost weapons.

in retail wow, name a fight that is the case, in CURRENT content.

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thats my point,
classic wow is only perceived as harder because of the gating behing needing to grind something stupid.

like retail wow clearly doesnt have that......
>.>
<.<

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thats my point,
wow doesnt have a boss like that in current content,

in Classic wow there are litteraly bosses that i mentioned, like Huhuran at 30% that will do an AOE poison volley for 2k every 2 seconds, on 15 people in the raid.
hence why having nature resist helps, as the volley stacks and adds a ticking dot.

Viscudus legit is unkillable if you cant do frost damage, and melee it fast enough to Shatter it. even in current wow.

people are only taking MC and BWL as proof classic is easy.

but they ARE the easiest raids.

im hoping we get a pre nerf Cthun

"Hey guys, Classic is difficult. I mean, granted the only way to make the fights difficult was to make fights require a specific set of gear that you'd literally only use for that fight in the entire game but ITS STILL HARD WHY DONT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?!"

"Nah fam, retail is super easy. All you need is the gear and then all the mechanics magically disappear. I mean look at Dark Inquisitor Xanesh, you can easily outgear that fight and not have to worry about perfectly executing the orbs, never miss an interrupt, and you can just stand in all the dark zones."

[Master Factician]

2. They underestimated how much more powerful 1.12 characters are.

Not as significant as you think.

There are a large number of things that were fixed or nerfed that made players weaker as time went on as well. I'll give you one example of many:

Improved Sunder Armor used to increase the effectiveness of Sunder Armor by 30% instead of the current 3 rage reduction. That’s just a single change, it’s significant and no one ever mentions it and other changes like it in any of the topics about how much easier 1.12 is.

[alt-ithist]

Mechanical complexity is not the only measure of difficulty. Is it harder to be a competitive sprinter or to walk across the entire country? Both are difficult for totally different reasons. One requires incredible physical capability. The other just requires persistence.

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So no examples exist.

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The reality that the raids are mechanically very simple but that the time investment required for Classic is significantly higher?

What kind of bullshit thread is this. There is no time investment in classic unless your argument is “it takes me longer to get to max lvl so raiding is harder”.

Once you hit max lvl in classic, you are ready to raid. Step into MC, 45 minutes later you’ve completed your first raid. In live there is sooooo much shit to get ready before you can step into the raids. One of the biggest complaints you see on the forums is how people are begin for the return of just gear as character building in the contrast of so many systems you have to go through.

Just accept that you are wrong. You can’t make an argument about classic raiding being harder where your only supporting factor is leveling takes longer.

[ClassicPeon]

Not as significant as you think.

There are a large number of things that were fixed or nerfed that made players weaker as time went on as well. I'll give you one example of many:

Improved Sunder Armor used to increase the effectiveness of Sunder Armor by 30% instead of the current 3 rage reduction. That’s just a single change, it’s significant and no one ever mentions it and other changes like it in any of the topics about how much easier 1.12 is.

Its just the new trope in a wave of excuses as to why "real vanilla was super super tough and hardcore vs classic". It doesnt help that kungen is making a desperate attempt to be famous again by playing "real classic". its just food for them.

[pewpmeiser]

I keep seeing people endlessly repeat the same lie over and over again about wow classic raids. They keep saying that others argued that classic raids would take months to clear because of mechanical difficulty.

Nobody ever made that argument. Sure, maybe one person did somewhere, but that was never the conversation. The contention was that classic raids would take a long time to clear because of how long it takes to level, gear, and access the content. That’s it. It never had anything to do with mechanical difficulty.

Obviously, they were still wrong. I think for three reasons:

1. It’s faster to level and gear than people assumed, although still way longer than retail.
2. They underestimated how much more powerful 1.12 characters are.
3. They underestimated the knowledge held by people playing on private servers.

Bottom line: this never had anything to do with mechanical complexity. It was always about time investment, low drop rates, etc.. Can we please put this lie to bed? Nobody thought wow classic raids were mechanically difficult. Get over it. Move on.

I can't say I've ever seen anyone say classic raids were mechanically difficult. Classic raids were only hard because you had to deal with 40 personalities dealing with eachother for X amount of hours each week and trying to execute a strategy together, and that people we're just generally really, really bad at the game and didnt understand it.

[OrcsRLame]

I would actually disagree here, with Ony for example, people who know the fight well can still wipe on it. Pull aggro on the dragon at the wrong time, the raid eats a breath and it's probably a wipe. Like you can't actually ignore many of the mechanics and come out victorious. On LFR for example, I can't remember many instances where the mechanics were like that.

Current LFR is a nightmarish hellscape of wiping. Unless at least half your group has AOTC or equivalent/greater levels of experience and gear you're in for at least 4 or 5 wipes on N'zoth.

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Patch 1.12 and kungen syas hi - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EceXu5rX...png&name=large
So in fact things have changed so that classic is NOT Vanilla and shares no denominator with it besides the bosses in there, the talent trees and the loot makes it a faceroll for anyonw who was there in actual Vanilla. Back in the day, it took days before the secrets of how to beat bosses, were spread out by world first guilds, it took days and sometimes weeks before strategies were shared. He'll no one back then used stacking besides cutting edge, and fotm specs were non abundant, today anyone can spend an hour and they'll know everything they need to before going into raid xx incl. specs strategies, hell even BIS lists are an abundant. Back in the day we used our own spreadsheets to calculate wether or not an item was an upgrade....

So TLDR - Classic is NOT vanilla, and can never be compared to it as the content is old as dirt, and have been beaten gazillions of times allready, and there are no secrets to discover anymore, you can learn all you need to know in a hour by searching the web.

Naxx came out in patch 1.11. The gear changed in patch 1.10. AQ40 gear was never changed. So you're gonna retract everything you said when Naxx gets cleared an hour after launch, right? What's gonna be your excuse then?

[Kaneiac]

Your post doesnt make any sense. Try again

It takes at minimum 3 months to hit r14. That is if you are in the top bracket every single week for 14 weeks, starting from private.

[Chaelexi]

in retail you wont wait 6+ months for an item to drop as there are litterally hundreds of ways to get gear in retail,

Funny you say that, We cleared Mythic Ashvane since week 2 of mythic.......We saw 4 Razer Corrals, 2 of them on bonus loot rolls for people who already had them for months. Many of us had to go back to mythic to get them.

[Pohut]

As far as my knowledge goes the patch we are playing is tuned for naxx, so when that raid comes out lets see how long it takes for some guilds to get it on farm, i dont think it would be hard in sens of mechanics, but getting 40 people on the same page

No. Guilds will be split clearing it within a couple of weeks.