Oklahoma people are now Indians, and it's hilarious

[Sorensen]

"Chaos and anarchy! Destroy the status quo! Destroy the foundations of society! EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! RAAAAAAAAR!"

Exactly just as it should be.

But yeah let's at least honor our treaties etc.

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I mean honestly we should probably give everything west of the Mississippi to native people's but that probably won't happen.

[muto]

Why is it hilarious that Native American land was ruled to be Native American land and under federal, not state, jurisdiction for legal purposes?

Because the whole country is Native American land.

[Edge-]

Because the whole country is Native American land.

Let me know what treaties make this whole country Native American land where state authorities have no jurisdiction, then. Because that's all this ruling is about.

Man, I know this isn't the politics forum, but it seems a certain side of the political spectrum seems determined to grossly misinterpret this ruling with no interest at all of actually reading or understanding it.

Like...why?

[Elegiac]

Let me know what treaties make this whole country Native American land where state authorities have no jurisdiction, then. Because that's all this ruling is about.

Man, I know this isn't the politics forum, but it seems a certain side of the political spectrum seems determined to grossly misinterpret this ruling with no interest at all of actually reading or understanding it.

Like...why?

Because they're afraid that they'd end up being victim to what they did to the Native Americans. *sips tea*

[Endus]

Let me know what treaties make this whole country Native American land where state authorities have no jurisdiction, then. Because that's all this ruling is about.

Man, I know this isn't the politics forum, but it seems a certain side of the political spectrum seems determined to grossly misinterpret this ruling with no interest at all of actually reading or understanding it.

Like...why?

The core legislative problem is that if you sign treaties with an independent people, you are demonstrating you consider them a nation unto themselves, and thus sovereign. So when you later subjugate them and ignore the legally binding treaty documents, that leaves you vulnerable to a legal challenge, on the basis of those documents.

Canada dealt with this; we've shifted to treating our First Nations peoples as just that; nations within Canada, with some limited sovereignty. It's led to some interesting points, like when Quebec was making noise about seceding from Confederation in the '90s, and the Cree pointed out that according to treaty documents, they technically owned basically 90% of Quebec's northern lands. The strip along the Saint Lawrence (admittedly where most cities are) could leave, but if their resolution passed, the rest of Cree lands were staying with Canada, thankyouverymuch.

Canada's been brought before the international courts by First Nations on these kinds of grounds, and we consider them legally binding. It's really not a problem. Unless you're, like, super racist against First Nations peoples, at least.

[Thekri]

"Chaos and anarchy! Destroy the status quo! Destroy the foundations of society! EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! RAAAAAAAAR!"

Look up some of that history you claim to love so much. You know, the history that we don't have statues of. Oklahoma was given to the Eastern Tribal Nations, because we evicted them from most of the South Eastern United States, curtesy of Andrew Jackson. In the process we gave them rights to the Oklahoma territory, nearly all of it, because it was shit land that we didn't want. We signed treaties, giving them Oklahoma forever. In the many decades since then, we have repeatedly violated the terms of those treaties, giving large swathes of land to other people, including several waves of immigrant populations, but we never actually rewrote the treaties that gave it to the Native tribes in the first place.

The purpose of a court is not to make laws, it is to enforce the ones that exist. Legally, the US is bound by treaties giving that land to American Native Tribes. If congress wants to change that, it is up to them to change those laws. But the laws still exist, so the court has to honor them.

Or as Trump so eloquently stated:

LAW AND ORDER!!

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I mean honestly we should probably give everything west of the Mississippi to native people's but that probably won't happen.

Well we do have a legal framework so the United States actually has claim to those lands. Granted, that legal framework is EXTREMELY morally dubious, but it does exist. The resident tribes did sign away their rights to that land, mostly after we shot most of them. However Oklahoma is a special case, because it wasn't the native Tribes of Oklahoma that own it. It is the Native Tribes of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, and the Carolinas. We uprooted them, moved them to Oklahoma, and told them it was their land now. So we kind of have to let them have it, because that was the whole "deal" we made. It isn't all of Oklahoma now, we eroded their holdings considerably, but a huge amount of that land is still technically theirs. And the Supreme Court, or at least the justices that actually care about laws, had to recognize that.

[Masark]

Or as Trump so eloquently stated:

"I didn't mean for EVERYONE, you dolt! Just ME!"

[Thekri]

"I didn't mean for EVERYONE, you dolt! Just ME!"

Oh, I really don't think he wants that for himself... like I REALLY don't think he would like that.

[Egomaniac]

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that much of eastern Oklahoma falls within an Indian reservation, a decision that could reshape the criminal-justice system by preventing state authorities from prosecuting offenses there that involve Native Americans.

The 5-to-4 decision, potentially one of the most consequential legal victories for Native Americans in decades, could have far-reaching implications for the people who live across what is now deemed “Indian Country” by the high court. The lands include much of Tulsa, Oklahoma’s second-biggest city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/u...ek-nation.html

Sure, why not. Besides riots, armed people marching in the streets, tearing down statues, now judges are giving large masses of American lands back to Native Americans. America won't see another year as one country.

Are the Muscogee tribe now going to evict the Americans? Perhaps make an American Reservation?

So, you're butthurt because the Supreme Court ruled that a signed treaty, that has never been invalidated, is still valid?

[Edge-]

So, you're butthurt because the Supreme Court ruled that a signed treaty, that has never been invalidated, is still valid?

He appears mad because he doesn't understand what the SCOTUS ruling actually was, and think that it means people don't own land in Oklahoma and can be kicked out as a result.

[Saltysquidoon]

The US could always use the 100% garunteeded not!racist 'straya method.

Where you recognise indigenous people existed before the country was settled and that they have a claim to their land... But only Crownland... That no one is using... That they can prove they have a continuous 'connection' too (after we shipped them to reservations 100 years ago)... And also the Crown can take it back if they need it for something important for the duration the important thing is happening.

Indigenous land rights are solved forever.

[Egomaniac]

He appears mad because he doesn't understand what the SCOTUS ruling actually was, and think that it means people don't own land in Oklahoma and can be kicked out as a result.

So

a) He doesn't like that the Supreme Court is doing it's job.

and

b) He doesn't even understand what actually happened.

[Thekri]

He appears mad because he doesn't understand what the SCOTUS ruling actually was, and think that it means people don't own land in Oklahoma and can be kicked out as a result.

To be clear here, there are a lot of very problematic consequences of this ruling, although the OP seems to consider none of them, and is just mad because he thinks it is about Political Correctness, apparently.

The problem really dates back to 1907, and the admission of Oklahoma to the United States. It was supposed to be two states, one being the State of Sequoyah and the other being the State of Oklahoma. "Sequoyah" was the name chosen by the five tribal nations to be the state name for the Indian Territories, who had voted for statehood. "Oklahoma" was the other part, now western Oklahoma, which had mostly been taken from them by White Settlers. At the time of those state conventions, "Sequoyah" was still entirely an Indian Reservation, and as such, it wanted Statehood separately from Oklahoma. However, Northern Republicans were afraid that both states would be solidly democratic, so they, led by President Theodore Roosevelt, insisted they be admitted as a single state. Which they were.

So the legal question that faced the Supreme Court, was did making Sequoyah part of Oklahoma, invalidate its earlier status as an Indian Reservation? The 1907 language was not clear on that point, and it was a 5-4 decision that it did not. Gorsuch was the swing vote. He abstained on the same case last year, because he was involved in it at a district court level, so the Court deadlocked on the issue. This one was a forgone conclusion, because Gorsuch's opinion was known, and he didn't have to recuse this time.

Which brings us to why this can be problematic. The Tribal judicial system is bad. Like, really, really bad. The situation on Native Reservations is absolutely tragic, because centuries of abuse has led to impoverished, insulated communities where "Justice" is tied to a cabal of tribal elders that mostly seem to operate on their relationships with the case. Sexual abuses, drug use, and violence are off the charts. There are dozens of documentaries on this, the US government fucked these tribes over so hard that what is left is a collection of broken failed states, with unclear sovereignty. One of the legal implications of this decision, is that ever since the beginning, a crime committed by a Tribal member, on a reservation, falls under Tribal sovereignty which is an incredibly complex topic that I won't pretend to understand, but definitely places it out of the jurisdiction of a state to enforce. Which means that several thousand people who have been committed of a wide range of crimes now have to be freed, and turned over to the aforementioned courts. And some of these crimes are really nasty ones.

I do agree with this in concept, but like Puerto Rico, we need to do a MUCH better job with helping these tribal governments before we shove this kind of responsibility on them. They simply lack the infrastructure to handle a jurisdiction this large. They don't have nearly enough funds or the legal capacity to actually handle this. One thing that is clear is that Congress DOES have jurisdiction over all Tribal areas, as they are considered part of the federal government. So add one more to the list of things that Congress should have sorted out decades ago. Now maybe they will actually be forced to do their damn job.

[Edge-]

To be clear here, there are a lot of very problematic consequences of this ruling, although the OP seems to consider none of them, and is just mad because he thinks it is about Political Correctness, apparently.

Absolutely, and RBG makes mention of this as well.

I do agree with this in concept, but like Puerto Rico, we need to do a MUCH better job with helping these tribal governments before we shove this kind of responsibility on them.

Given the past, and very recent, history with relation to the US government's treatment of tribal governments...I'm not remotely optimistic that things are set to improve anytime soon, or even in my lifetime. The US's relationship with tribes has never been good, and while we're at least not actively and intentionally killing them anymore (at least not overtly), we're functionally achieving similar goals through total neglect.

[Thee ANCOM]

"Chaos and anarchy! Destroy the status quo! Destroy the foundations of society! EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF! RAAAAAAAAR!"

I can't post meme's but if this post doesn't epitomize the "super mad guy wearing a cool guy mask" meme I don't know what does.

suffice to say, stay mad.

[Yuujin]

OP is a very scared wittle baby who just needs his baba, Columbis teddy bear, and Confederate flag blankie.

The libs are taking away my Murika!

[Zan15]

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that much of eastern Oklahoma falls within an Indian reservation, a decision that could reshape the criminal-justice system by preventing state authorities from prosecuting offenses there that involve Native Americans.

The 5-to-4 decision, potentially one of the most consequential legal victories for Native Americans in decades, could have far-reaching implications for the people who live across what is now deemed “Indian Country” by the high court. The lands include much of Tulsa, Oklahoma’s second-biggest city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/09/u...ek-nation.html

Sure, why not. Besides riots, armed people marching in the streets, tearing down statues, now judges are giving large masses of American lands back to Native Americans. America won't see another year as one country.

Are the Muscogee tribe now going to evict the Americans? Perhaps make an American Reservation?

do you not know the difference between land designation and people?
How does living somewhere make you an "indian"?

So if i move there i am now "indian"?


boy i hope your property is never ceased under eminent domain, you will be singing a whole different tune.

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Yeah, fuck all those people who live in Tulsa and half of Oklahoma! They can be legally evicted now because the land belongs to someone else, cause hey, we got ourselves some forgotten treaties from hundreds of years ago, that we have to respect, and 5 woke judges ready to bend over.

Good God son you didn't understand a single thing about this case or rulling did you?

[smityx]

I guess we'll be seeing dozens of new casinos soon.

[Rozz]

This thread is closed. The topic can be discussed in a more civil manner.