Shadowlands Preview: The Maw

[TheRevenantHero]

Relax, the sky is not falling. I’ve been in almost every beta since Cata, and in every one, open world content was way harder than it was live. Keep in mind alpha players have a basic starter gear set, and likely only have quest drops.

I get the idea you might be unhappy with it in any case, but it won’t be as bad as you think on live.

I honestly hope so but Blizzard's recent comments about the Maw doesn't really inspire me to agree with you. It seems like they're basically confirming that the Maw will be stupid hard. Which means they decided to listen to the really loud minority who constantly claim the game isn't "hard enough".

[FelPlague]

Maybe I missed it somewhere. Is the maw going to be helpful in progressing other content (not counting Torghast)? I haven't been overly compelled by what I've seen so far of the Maw (it is beta so I'll keep an eye on it), it just seems everything you do helps with the maw and Torghast only which makes me think this is a more self contained system.

The maw was originally a place to go to get keys to do torghast.
But blizz has said they want you to do torghast as much as you liek, so no more keys.
So the maw now is really just for cosmetics and upgrades to torghast and stuff.

[qwerty123456]

Forcibly recruiting souls to your covenant sounds horrible. Too bad you couldn't send them to other places instead of dooming them to the 3 circles of hell or nature town.

[taishar68]

I honestly hope so but Blizzard's recent comments about the Maw doesn't really inspire me to agree with you. It seems like they're basically confirming that the Maw will be stupid hard. Which means they decided to listen to the really loud minority who constantly claim the game isn't "hard enough".

Well, if you look at some of the other 1st patch end game areas, like Suramar, Nagrand, and Dread Wastes, there was always a window where you couldn’t just go in and pull 4-5 mobs at a time and face roll through them, and that window had different durations based on how quickly players improved their gear. I’ll bet that within a relatively short amount of time, we’ll out hear the maw and plow right through it.

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Forcibly recruiting souls to your covenant sounds horrible. Too bad you couldn't send them to other places instead of dooming them to the 3 circles of hell or nature town.

Are we forcing them or encouraging them? And at any rate, is it better to be in the Maw?

[qwerty123456]

Well, if you look at some of the other 1st patch end game areas, like Suramar, Nagrand, and Dread Wastes, there was always a window where you couldn’t just go in and pull 4-5 mobs at a time and face roll through them, and that window had different durations based on how quickly players improved their gear. I’ll bet that within a relatively short amount of time, we’ll out hear the maw and plow right through it.

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Are we forcing them or encouraging them? And at any rate, is it better to be in the Maw?

It depends on if I'm understanding what they said correctly.
It seems like eventually souls in the maw break down. A thousand years in super hell and then ceasing to be is probably better than an eternity in regular hell.

[Soluna]

This is hands down one of the most tone deaf responses I've seen. I can see grouping up for elites and rares and such. But for regular adds? Yeah, that's dumb.

Have you ever considered just adventuring the Maw with a friend? The prospect of playing with a friend must be shocking or alien to you if you can't come up with a solution to such an easy problem. Also chill out, the maw seems like it will be mostly cosmetic stuff. Why not allow hardcore players have something cosmetic to chase after?

There have been such things in the past, so why not now?

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It depends on if I'm understanding what they said correctly.
It seems like eventually souls in the maw break down. A thousand years in super hell and then ceasing to be is probably better than an eternity in regular hell.

How can you call a place like Ardenweald 'regular hell'? Or Bastion? Or hell, even Venthyr/Maldraxxus lol. Sure, they have some grim aspects, but no covenant/zone we enlist to is purely black. Else we wouldn't be able to. Shadowlands is the AFTERLIFE, not hell. Maw is Hell. Sounds to me like you are complaining for the sake of complaining lol. Which is a regular thing in MMO champion anyway, so why am I even surprised?

[TheRevenantHero]

Well, if you look at some of the other 1st patch end game areas, like Suramar, Nagrand, and Dread Wastes, there was always a window where you couldn’t just go in and pull 4-5 mobs at a time and face roll through them, and that window had different durations based on how quickly players improved their gear. I’ll bet that within a relatively short amount of time, we’ll out hear the maw and plow right through it.

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Are we forcing them or encouraging them? And at any rate, is it better to be in the Maw?

Like I've said, I'm totally fine with elites being capable of absolutely wrecking your shit. But regular enemies? I've seen videos where people pulled two adds and got stomped into the ground and neither add was elite.

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Have you ever considered just adventuring the Maw with a friend? The prospect of playing with a friend must be shocking or alien to you if you can't come up with a solution to such an easy problem. Also chill out, the maw seems like it will be mostly cosmetic stuff. Why not allow hardcore players have something cosmetic to chase after?

There have been such things in the past, so why not now?

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How can you call a place like Ardenweald 'regular hell'? Or Bastion? Or hell, even Venthyr/Maldraxxus lol. Sure, they have some grim aspects, but no covenant/zone we enlist to is purely black. Else we wouldn't be able to. Shadowlands is the AFTERLIFE, not hell. Maw is Hell. Sounds to me like you are complaining for the sake of complaining lol. Which is a regular thing in MMO champion anyway, so why am I even surprised?

Hardcore players already have two parts of the game that are 100% theirs. Mythic raiding and high end Mythic+ dungeons are not something just anyone can do. Giving them MORE shit is just going to further alienate the majority of the playerbase. Whether you want to admit it or not, the majority of the playerbase is casual. Furthermore, you're basically saying I can't go into the Maw without a friend(or heavens help me some rando) which is flawed because that means I basically have to schedule myself around someone for something that isn't being advertised as group content.

[taishar68]

Like I've said, I'm totally fine with elites being capable of absolutely wrecking your shit. But regular enemies? I've seen videos where people pulled two adds and got stomped into the ground and neither add was elite.

Well, in the areas I was mentioning, I remember certain non elite mobs being more of a challenge than others, and depending on the class and gear, it was possible to have to work hard, even on non elites. But it is player specific, of course. And we’ve seen many end game areas that had somewhat challenging to difficult content down the years; Timeless Isle was no cakewalk even for well geared players, Broken Shore and Argus had some tougher areas...but even then you could eventually outgear most of it. So it’s not that unusual. But keep in mind there hasn’t been any tuning yet. I bet you a ham sandwich it’ll be a lot easier when you’re 60 on live

[qwerty123456]

Have you ever considered just adventuring the Maw with a friend? The prospect of playing with a friend must be shocking or alien to you if you can't come up with a solution to such an easy problem. Also chill out, the maw seems like it will be mostly cosmetic stuff. Why not allow hardcore players have something cosmetic to chase after?

There have been such things in the past, so why not now?

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How can you call a place like Ardenweald 'regular hell'? Or Bastion? Or hell, even Venthyr/Maldraxxus lol. Sure, they have some grim aspects, but no covenant/zone we enlist to is purely black. Else we wouldn't be able to. Shadowlands is the AFTERLIFE, not hell. Maw is Hell. Sounds to me like you are complaining for the sake of complaining lol. Which is a regular thing in MMO champion anyway, so why am I even surprised?

I said three hells and plant town.

Bastion would be hell because half the people or more fail and go dark. 99% of their job is fighting/killing the people who were sent their in the first place because they are super into helping/serving people. And the ones that do make it have to lose themselves and become blue humans. Millions of species in the universe die and a bunch are forced into becoming blue humans. And how arrogant would anyone from Azeroth have to be to think they could be the lucky one that turns blue and isn't hunted down after even Uther fell.

Venthyr- You are tortured to fuck by ugly ass corrupted vampire wannabes which somehow purifies you. The only nice thing about it is that once you have you then get to go to a different afterlife but since you can't choose you could end up in bastion or maldraxxus which would be a punch in the nuts after everything you have gone through.

Maladraxxus- You are forced to spend an eternity with rotting corpses for some reason??? I assume you also get turned into a walking pile of bones and flesh once you get your ass handed to you one to many times in your battles with the enemies of the afterlife. I could maybe see a fighter afterlife where after a battle people might Frankenstein themselves after recovering lost limbs like a warrior and a shaman swapping an arm so the war could cast earth shock and the shaman to wield a two hander or something but a bunch of necromancers and rotten corpses? Who the heck would want that?

I think Blizzard said something about these being the largest/most important realms in the afterlife. After experiencing any of them besides Ardenweld who wouldn't think they were in hell?

[Soluna]

Like I've said, I'm totally fine with elites being capable of absolutely wrecking your shit. But regular enemies? I've seen videos where people pulled two adds and got stomped into the ground and neither add was elite.

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Hardcore players already have two parts of the game that are 100% theirs. Mythic raiding and high end Mythic+ dungeons are not something just anyone can do. Giving them MORE shit is just going to further alienate the majority of the playerbase. Whether you want to admit it or not, the majority of the playerbase is casual. Furthermore, you're basically saying I can't go into the Maw without a friend(or heavens help me some rando) which is flawed because that means I basically have to schedule myself around someone for something that isn't being advertised as group content.

It's not a part of the game that is 100% for them. Mythic raiding is 1/4rth of raiding, and m+ can also be similarly segmented. You can do a +10 and get the same experience as someone who does a +20 but is much above your skill level. You can also see that due to just how much more participation normal/hc raiding gets than mythic. I guess you are a complete hater. The maw is just a tiny part of the endgame experience in shadowlands, just an outdoor zone with cosmetics, and even then, the difficult is laughable compared to real content, especially if you bring a healer friend along.

There are so many parts of the game that just require absurd amounts of gold grinding, or are pure RNG, and that's for bad players like you who cannot seem to handle the idea of having to interrupt casts or use selfheals/etc to survive against tough mobs lol. Also who the hell advertisted it as 'single player' content? You are just labeling it on your own afaik. My friends/guildes and I are excited about the prospect of venturing forth as a group in the Maw. Maybe it's time to make more friends than the lonely joe you got that barely even comes online to play anymore, and your whole fun is dictated around his own schedule.

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I said three hells and plant town.

Bastion would be hell because half the people or more fail and go dark. 99% of their job is fighting/killing the people who were sent their in the first place because they are super into helping/serving people. And the ones that do make it have to lose themselves and become blue humans. Millions of species in the universe die and a bunch are forced into becoming blue humans. And how arrogant would anyone from Azeroth have to be to think they could be the lucky one that turns blue and isn't hunted down after even Uther fell.

Venthyr- You are tortured to fuck by ugly ass corrupted vampire wannabes which somehow purifies you. The only nice thing about it is that once you have you then get to go to a different afterlife but since you can't choose you could end up in bastion or maldraxxus which would be a punch in the nuts after everything you have gone through.

Maladraxxus- You are forced to spend an eternity with rotting corpses for some reason??? I assume you also get turned into a walking pile of bones and flesh once you get your ass handed to you one to many times in your battles with the enemies of the afterlife. I could maybe see a fighter afterlife where after a battle people might Frankenstein themselves after recovering lost limbs like a warrior and a shaman swapping an arm so the war could cast earth shock and the shaman to wield a two hander or something but a bunch of necromancers and rotten corpses? Who the heck would want that?

I think Blizzard said something about these being the largest/most important realms in the afterlife. After experiencing any of them besides Ardenweld who wouldn't think they were in hell?

You are basically calling Bastion a hell because people who fail it go dark. How is that a problem of Bastion itself? Why is it a 'hell' to turn into a blue human? Is it cause you are a 'human potential' hater and you just want to vent? Granted I don't know tons of each covenant, as I try to remain relatively unspoiled, but from what I've understood, Maldraxxus forces pride themselves in protecting the shadowlands from the forces of Light and Dark. Sure, they have their way of 'reforming' the people that end up there, but just because you see the undead theme as evil, that doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Venthyr may torture newcomers, but this is their way of 'changing' them. And frankly, if any of these covenants/zones were so evil, I doubt they'd work with the hero of Azeroth, and I also doubt that the hero of Azeroth would work with someone that is as evil as to be described as such. And well, people like Kael'Thas ended up in the Venthyr place afaik, what do you want them to do to him? To brush his hair and tell him he is clear of sin cause he is fabulous?

There are some clear rules each place abides to, and just like real life, if you want to be an idiot and not follow the structure your society wants you to, then you are in big trouble. And yeah, I know that unlike real life, there is physical/mental torture, but I'd imagine that you would be interested in playing a game that has a proper fantasy aspect to it, not one where souls that fail to reform are just kicked out of their home, or are unemployed or sanctioned for escaping taxes :P .

[qwerty123456]

You are basically calling Bastion a hell because people who fail it go dark. How is that a problem of Bastion itself? Why is it a 'hell' to turn into a blue human? Is it cause you are a 'human potential' hater and you just want to vent? Granted I don't know tons of each covenant, as I try to remain relatively unspoiled, but from what I've understood, Maldraxxus forces pride themselves in protecting the shadowlands from the forces of Light and Dark. Sure, they have their way of 'reforming' the people that end up there, but just because you see the undead theme as evil, that doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Venthyr may torture newcomers, but this is their way of 'changing' them. And frankly, if any of these covenants/zones were so evil, I doubt they'd work with the hero of Azeroth, and I also doubt that the hero of Azeroth would work with someone that is as evil as to be described as such. And well, people like Kael'Thas ended up in the Venthyr place afaik, what do you want them to do to him? To brush his hair and tell him he is clear of sin cause he is fabulous?

There are some clear rules each place abides to, and just like real life, if you want to be an idiot and not follow the structure your society wants you to, then you are in big trouble. And yeah, I know that unlike real life, there is physical/mental torture, but I'd imagine that you would be interested in playing a game that has a proper fantasy aspect to it, not one where souls that fail to reform are just kicked out of their home, or are unemployed or sanctioned for escaping taxes :P .

I never said they were necessarily evil I just said they were hell like there's a difference.

You forget that for everyone but the player(because we are living) don't get to choose their afterlife the Arbiter chooses for you. And technically even we don't we just choose who to help out we could still end up elsewhere when we die. Imagine being a paladin whose entire family was lost to the scourge and had to fight the undead for years before finally losing a battle and being devoured alive by them only to wind up stuck in Maladraxxus for an eternity. Does that not sound like hell to you?

Bastion is set up so that many of the very people that were sent their because it was deemed this is the afterlife that is perfect for them are doomed to fail and then become Forsworn. This isn't just random mother fuckers who thought "hey lets go try and be spirit healers" these are people specifically picked and sent their because their devotion to serving. Why would a good afterlife be set up to destroy half the people that are chosen to be there??? And I don't have a problem with humans my main is a human pally, what I have a problem with is that species that look nothing like humans would be ok with being a blue human Blizzard even said they get to pick their form as Pelagos got to choose to be a man. Also Bastion is for countless worlds in the cosmos why wouldn't they pick forms more appealing to each worlds inhabitants so they don't freak the fuck out when they encounter a spirit healer?

Sire Denathrius the very guy who created the Venthyr and Revendreth is working with the Jailer. If the guy who set it up is working with the big bad and the Venthyr have grown to enjoy their job too much it probably isn't designed to be the most legit and good place.

Also all those covenants work with us because they are starving to death and need us.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

No, it's not. Apparently, the adds in the Maw are INSANELY powerful, even the non-elites. From what I've seen in videos, pulling more than one requires popping all cooldowns just to stay alive. Which makes me think the Maw is purely for hardcore players.

Aren't all the people testing the Maw in questing greens? I don't believe it's a correct estimate of how hard it'll be. There's also items sold from a vendor that's not accessible that make it easier to survive.

[Tupolew519]

this is all crazy!

[Adam Jensen]

I've seen a few videos of people travelling through the Maw. Apparently pulling more than one mob at a time is a death sentence. So essentially, if you're a casual player, you can go fuck yourself as you will never be able to get anything from the Maw. Blizzard is really showing how terrible this expansion is gonna be.

So because people have to be careful how they pull . . . the game is anti-casual? Seriously?

I for one hope they keep it somewhat difficult. This whole "AOE GOGOGOGO" bullshit needs to be dialed down a bit.