What kinds of effects should replace XP on Heirlooms?

[Drusin]

And replacing the bonus exp on something messes things up how exactly? Oh no, I don't have little green text telling me I get more exp, so I don't want to do math to figure out my exp per hour with a change, oh woe is me, however will I level a new character now.

I'll get less xp

Until they decide to really crackdown and start locking all private servers down.

1. Good luck locking down servers in countries outside of America that say fuck your copyright
2. I can run my own private version of wow and collect there
ggez

Yes, but here's the thing, you can choose to leave if you don't like the change.

Or I can choose to stay and speak against the change. Also not liking one thing doesn't mean the entirety of the game is ruined, just that one thing.

You don't have to leave, but no, you decide to bitch that Blizzard is finally trying to refix a problem that caused heirlooms to be introduced in the first place.

I like it here, think I'll stay and bitch

Never said it didn't, said it doesn't mean it will happen.

Guess I'll keep doing it then

But here's the thing, in most, if not all, of those situations, people threatened to quit, and Blizzard knew that the way the game was then, it would be harder to entice newer players to come join and stick around. Now they're making it so newer players will more likely stick around with the ease of leveling being implemented.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All that's fine, but I still haven't seen a reason to not bitch yet bb lol

This is how I see it, it's simple.

Blizz is removing x
Want x to stay
Option 1: Bitch and have >0% chance of x staying
Option 2: Hate something and do nothing about it like a fucking idiot and hope the situation resolves itself.

Unless you're just bored and like talking to me you're wasting keypresses on me lol You have a better chance of getting Sneakers O'Toole to take his sneakers off rofl

[Enty]

Read everything, but i still do not see a valid, justified reasoning for removing bonus xp:

1. Advantage against new players? Old players earned their heirlooms by spending gold or doing other activities.
2. SL already has faster leveling? So what?
3. Interesting new bonuses? No new bonuses will be as universally useful as +xp. There are simply too many ways to level to make new bonuses universally better than +xp for everyone, without making heirlooms too op.
4. Heirlooms are seen as mandatory now? But you can unequip them and go about with what you get from dungeons, quests, etc. See, you have a choice.
5. Heirlooms scale with your level? It does not matter. Due to ilevel squishes, stats difference in items you get across 10 player levels is hardly noticeable. You could literally go on for 20+ player levels until you notice you have some greens equiped from when you started the character.

Again, can anyone give me a valid reason for why the xp bonus is removed?

It is not game breaking.
It is not mandatory.
It is not gained via RMT.
It is earned by playing the game in a normal way.

What is wrong with it?

[Orumden]

I'll get less xp



1. Good luck locking down servers in countries outside of America that say fuck your copyright
2. I can run my own private version of wow and collect there
ggez


Or I can choose to stay and speak against the change. Also not liking one thing doesn't mean the entirety of the game is ruined, just that one thing.


I like it here, think I'll stay and bitch


Guess I'll keep doing it then



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All that's fine, but I still haven't seen a reason to not bitch yet bb lol

This is how I see it, it's simple.

Blizz is removing x
Want x to stay
Option 1: Bitch and have >0% chance of x staying
Option 2: Hate something and do nothing about it like a fucking idiot and hope the situation resolves itself.

Unless you're just bored and like talking to me you're wasting keypresses on me lol You have a better chance of getting Sneakers O'Toole to take his sneakers off rofl

You're using remove, when it is replace. Big difference. And again, if they give it something to increase exp per hour by the same amount, guess what, it'll be like the only thing that changed was it going from saying increases exp by x%. I'll even use your other example against you coupled with mine, after turning in kill 10 part 2, you get an escort, nh is just starting kill 10 part 2. After escort, you then get more kill quests, we'll say there is 20 this time. So at minimum you require 60 attacks to kill them all, once nh gets there, they require at minimum 180 attacks. No matter how you quest, you would always be ahead of anyone without heirlooms. And your pvp example, from my experience in low level pvp, there's always people running around twinked out, so their twinked gear in the brackets would beat heirlooms real easily because of one tiny little stat called versatility since only like 3 pieces have it, and, 2 of those 3 don't give exp anyway. So if you're constantly dying in there, you are losing exp per hour either way. Or, and this is a big one, you die so fast by team a being nothing but heirloom users and team b being twinked out that you wind up getting into a weird situation when you can queue faster than questing, lose, get your exp, queue again, lose, get your exp.

So, unless you have a legitimate complaint without knowing what exactly they are REPLACING the bonus exp with, you legit have no reason to complain. Cause all your complaint is turning out to be is about you not liking change. They do have the classic servers now, you know? Oh, but wait, they did changes to that after the community begged and pleaded them to not do any changes. Oh, but suddenly they fixed things that were actually worth fixing, and the community LIKED it?! Holy hell, it's almost like Blizzard knows how to balance a game at times. Who would've guessed that people who make a living off of designing a game would know more about doing just that than someone who acts like what is said is set in stone, and instead of calmly going to Blizzard with their complaints, they go to a non-official forum and complain to other consumers?

[Enty]

You're using remove, when it is replace.

"We took your Ferarri and replaced it with a Prius. It is exciting because it is a hybrid".

So, unless you have a legitimate complaint without knowing what exactly they are REPLACING the bonus exp with, you legit have no reason to complain. Cause all your complaint is turning out to be is about you not liking change. They do have the classic servers now, you know? Oh, but wait, they did changes to that after the community begged and pleaded them to not do any changes. Oh, but suddenly they fixed things that were actually worth fixing, and the community LIKED it?! Holy hell, it's almost like Blizzard knows how to balance a game at times. Who would've guessed that people who make a living off of designing a game would know more about doing just that than someone who acts like what is said is set in stone, and instead of calmly going to Blizzard with their complaints, they go to a non-official forum and complain to other consumers?

Come on, you have to see a difference here... Fixing or changing what is broken != fixing or changing what is not broken. You say it yourself here:

Oh, but suddenly they fixed things that were actually worth fixing

[Drusin]

You're using remove, when it is replace. Big difference

Eh, I suppose but the point is the same, what I want isn't there lol.

And again, if they give it something to increase exp per hour by the same amount, guess what, it'll be like the only thing that changed was it going from saying increases exp by x%.

Yep but that's yet to be seen, you mentioned the official forums earlier, did you see that one guy that said maybe they'll put a rep buff on looms lol If Blizz replaces a raw xp buff with a rep buff I'm going to call it the Orumden change :P

I'll even use your other example against you coupled with mine

Oh shit

after turning in kill 10 part 2, you get an escort, nh is just starting kill 10 part 2. After escort, you then get more kill quests, we'll say there is 20 this time. So at minimum you require 60 attacks to kill them all, once nh gets there, they require at minimum 180 attacks. No matter how you quest, you would always be ahead of anyone without heirlooms.

But ... that doesn't change that I would have gotten more xp from the escort quest with the current heirlooms, so in the alternate universe where Blizz doesn't make this change that guy with the new SL leveling speed and the heirloom xp buff would be farther ahead > that dick

And your pvp example, from my experience in low level pvp, there's always people running around twinked out, so their twinked gear in the brackets would beat heirlooms real easily because of one tiny little stat called versatility since only like 3 pieces have it, and, 2 of those 3 don't give exp anyway. So if you're constantly dying in there, you are losing exp per hour either way.

As you sit in a resource BG you get xp at certain intervals as you gain resources.

Or, and this is a big one, you die so fast by team a being nothing but heirloom users and team b being twinked out that you wind up getting into a weird situation when you can queue faster than questing, lose, get your exp, queue again, lose, get your exp.

At low levels I've never experienced that but it could happen

So, unless you have a legitimate complaint without knowing what exactly they are REPLACING the bonus exp with, you legit have no reason to complain

I think I'll complain until I know what they'll replace it with so they understand the importance of it's replacement

Cause all your complaint is turning out to be is about you not liking change.

No one likes shitty change

They do have the classic servers now, you know?

Already told you I was a collector Now you show me someone who says classic has a collection system like retail and I'll show you a drunk lol

Oh, but wait, they did changes to that after the community begged and pleaded them to not do any changes

They did indeed, just like I mentioned earlier that bitching doesn't always result in getting what you want but sometimes it does so there's no reason not to

Oh, but suddenly they fixed things that were actually worth fixing

Opinion

and the community LIKED it?!

No matter what change Blizz ever does someone is bound to like it

Holy hell, it's almost like Blizzard knows how to balance a game at times.

At times, implying at times they don't

Who would've guessed that people who make a living off of designing a game would know more about doing just that than someone who acts like what is said is set in stone

:O Who did that?

and instead of calmly going to Blizzard with their complaints, they go to a non-official forum and complain to other consumers?

I think I calmly complained on the official forums, that's going to Blizz isn't it?

[Coldkil]

Used them when they were useful, stopped upgrading them at like 90. It wasn't slow to level up without them at a point already, while those made the whole thing much faster.

Given how fast will be now leveling up, xp bonus just make no sense anymore. So i agree with the idea of giving them move speed, procs, cd reductions etc - most of the time spent while leveleing is traveling around the world and going from mob to mob. Reducing the time in doing that would be the equivalent of an xp boost.


Though i also agree that they should just make them autoscale and refund people the gold spent in upgrades.

[Enty]

Given how fast will be now leveling up, xp bonus just make no sense anymore.

Why does it make no sense?

Edit: also, i think alpha leveling has not yet been finalized number wise. Blizzard will most likely do one or several more number passes and tune it according to their liking. So i would not be too sure SL leveling will be that super fast.

[RamGuy]

Honestly, from how they talked about the new leveling system, it sounds an awful lot like their intention is that we will always level 10 - (Previous Xpac Level Cap) in the xpac of our choice. So, whatever follows SL would present a system where we would level 10-60 in say MoP, and all the quest xp would be adjusted accordingly to keep us on the same pace as the current 10-50.

This would make whatever changes they make to heirlooms now continue to be relevant throughout the life of the game without any "XP" issues.

This seems rather obvious to me and the whole point behind the new levelling system. But I can't find any official statements from Blizzard on this and it sure wouldn't be the first time Blizzard does not follow basic logic.

I think the whole idea from this point forward is that the levelling should stay consistent with every new expansion:

Level 1-10 = New starting experience (unless you are a veteran and decides to not do it)
Level 10-50 = Choose whichever expansion you want (Azeroth (Easter Kingdoms + Kalimdor aka "old" zones), Burning Crusade, Warth of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion or Battle for Azeroth).
Level 50-60 = Current Expansion (this time around that means Shadowlands).


When the next expansion comes, let's pretend the next one is called Emerald Dream it would be:

Level 1-10 = New starting experience (unless you are a veteran and decides to not do it)
Level 10-50 = Choose whichever expansion you want (Azeroth (Easter Kingdoms + Kalimdor aka "old" zones), Burning Crusade, Warth of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion, Battle for Azeroth or Shadowlands).
Level 50-60 = Current Expansion (this time around that means Emerald Dream).


And the would just continue on doing it like this. This way the levelling from 1 to current content would stay the same or every new expansion. Which in the end is a much better system for everyone.

The question is whether they would like to keep pulling the level back to 50 for each new expansion, or whether they would still increase it by 10 for each new expansion. It's not much of a problem, if the expansion after Shadowlands is pumping the max level up to 70 they would simply have to make it like this:

Level 1-10 = New starting experience (unless you are a veteran and decides to not do it)
Level 10-60 = Choose whichever expansion you want (Azeroth (Easter Kingdoms + Kalimdor aka "old" zones), Burning Crusade, Warth of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion, Battle for Azeroth or Shadowlands).
Level 60-70 = Current Expansion (this time around that means Emerald Dream).

And in order to make the levelling consistent between expansions they just make it so that the level 10-XX bracket of the levelling always gives you the current % of EXP, not a static amount of EXP. So you would always end up at current expansion content when doing enough content within whichever expansion you chose to be doing.




And considering how levelling from 1 to current content seems to be balanced around taking 10-20 hours depending on your efficiency I don't really feel the need of having EXP boost on my heirlooms any more. My reason for using heirlooms was to offset the fact that levelling was just taking far too long but when Blizzard finally fixes this so the levelling is no longer a 50 hours+ utterly pointless grind my use for EXP boots becomes much less relevant.

Would heirlooms with +EXP still make it go faster? Sure. But I don't expect levelling to become almost instantaneous either. Having to spend 10-15 hours going from level 1 to current expansion levelling is to be expected.


But I do hope that Blizzard is able to give heirlooms some interesting abilities and traits. It would feel awful to have them feel next to pointless, and I don't want them to simply become overpowered as they used to be as the levelling becomes far less fun and engaging when you just steamroll everything.

[Enty]

And considering how levelling from 1 to current content seems to be balanced around taking 10-20 hours depending on your efficiency I don't really feel the need of having EXP boost on my heirlooms any more. My reason for using heirlooms was to offset the fact that levelling was just taking far too long but when Blizzard finally fixes this so the levelling is no longer a 50 hours+ utterly pointless grind my use for EXP boots becomes much less relevant.

Would heirlooms with +EXP still make it go faster? Sure. But I don't expect levelling to become almost instantaneous either. Having to spend 10-15 hours going from level 1 to current expansion levelling is to be expected.

Disagree. Bonus XP is not pointless, regardless of what the leveling time is tuned to. New player will obviously take longer and that is fine. Veterans, however, does not want or should have to spend same amount of time in my opinion. This is the main point of +xp on heirlooms. To give players, who already spent many hours leveling, who already seen the stories, experienced the zones and continents, an advantage. Even then, if veteran player feels he goes through old leveling content too fast, he can simply unequip heirlooms. As i said above, current heirlooms does not have any negative impact on any kind of player.

Oh, and i do not want instant leveling. We have already boosts for that in shop, which i am not a fan of. Leveling should still hold some value, but this value is dropping with each new toon you level up to the max (1st toon = f yeah, 10th = meh), so the effort should also be reduced accordingly, and i think heirlooms is doing exactly that.

[Coldkil]

Why does it make no sense?

Edit: also, i think alpha leveling has not yet been finalized number wise. Blizzard will most likely do one or several more number passes and tune it according to their liking. So i would not be too sure SL leveling will be that super fast.

Cause while i assume there's always a way to be faster, given level squish and general speedup of the leveling process, other advantages like said movement speed or reduced cooldowns are best suited for the new systems. What i mean in practice is that if the xp bonus reduce the leveling time by X%, such percentage has way less value if baseline time needed drops a lot.

But as you said, tuning is still going and in the end it's just numbers. Heirlooms are meant to be the best gear to speed level a character and should stay so, independently from what they put as bonuses.

[VinceVega]

Disagree. Bonus XP is not pointless, regardless of what the leveling time is tuned to. New player will obviously take longer and that is fine. Veterans, however, does not want or should have to spend same amount of time in my opinion. This is the main point of +xp on heirlooms. To give players, who already spent many hours leveling, who already seen the stories, experienced the zones and continents, an advantage. Even then, if veteran player feels he goes through old leveling content too fast, he can simply unequip heirlooms. As i said above, current heirlooms does not have any negative impact on any kind of player.

Oh, and i do not want instant leveling. We have already boosts for that in shop, which i am not a fan of. Leveling should still hold some value, but this value is dropping with each new toon you level up to the max (1st toon = f yeah, 10th = meh), so the effort should also be reduced accordingly, and i think heirlooms is doing exactly that.

I don't think it is to give veterans an advantage. It was introduced the make the huge leveling times more bearable.
Not to give you an advantage over new players. The removal with the change to leveling time shorted the leveling time for everyone.

Would you rather they keep the old time but you have an advantage over new players? For whatever reason.

But these times are gone. And probably stay gone as i fully expect every old expansion to be moved into the 1-50 bracket when a new one comes out.

The removal of bonus XP is a change to offset the HUGE reduction in overall levelingtime. There is simply no reason for it anymore. Otherwise you can get rid of leveling alltogether because it becomes that trivial. For collectors you still have the heritage armor and it still servers a purpose in having gear that scales because oyu level faster than you can get gear and also whatever extra bonus they put on it. Maybe it is for endgame progression who knows butthere is something.

I would like them to remove them alltogether and just refund the money.

[RamGuy]

Why does it make no sense?

Edit: also, i think alpha leveling has not yet been finalized number wise. Blizzard will most likely do one or several more number passes and tune it according to their liking. So i would not be too sure SL leveling will be that super fast.

Sure the numbers might not be final or tuned yet. But it's not that hard to estimate a "worst-case scenario" here. We already know the structure:

Level 1-10 = New starting experience (unless you are a veteran and decides to not do it)
Level 10-50 = Choose whichever expansion you want (Azeroth (Easter Kingdoms + Kalimdor aka "old" zones), Burning Crusade, Warth of the Lich King, Cataclysm, Mists of Pandaria, Warlords of Draenor, Legion or Battle for Azeroth).
Level 50-60 = Current Expansion (this time around that means Shadowlands).


1-10 will take as long as the new starting experience takes. According to the Alpha this is around 45-90 min depending on how efficient you are. Then you decide whichever expansion you will be spending your time in levelling from 1-50. Of course this will vary depending on whatever expansion you are going for, but I highly doubt Blizzard will make it so that you have to play through the entirety of the content in order to make it so that doing Outland would make it much less efficient compared to doing Cataclysm.

Even if we are taking "worst-case scenario" into account lets use Battle for Azeroth as an example. The average levelling time from 110 to 120 in BFA was about 8-15 hours depending on your efficiency. New players that didn't really care for levelling speed at all might have spent 15-20 hours.

In other words, unless Blizzard somehow extended the content existing in each expansion levelling from 1-50 (Shadowlands content) can't take you more than 16 hours tops. Unless you are someone who doesn't even try to level at any sensible speed, then you might spent endless amount of hours but that's not really relevant to the discussion at hand.

And those 16 hours are for players not really trying to min/max their levelling. If you are really trying to level fast you should be able to get through BFA levelling content in about 5-7 hours without EXP buffs. 45 min on Exile's Reach + 5-7 hours in one expansion and boom you are in Shadowlands.


Why would we expect it to take any longer? We already know what content Exile's Reach brings, and we know players are going to be level 10 when they are done with Exile's Reach and we known that you will be able to choose one expansion pack to level through for your 10-50 experience so you have to be level 50 by the time you reach the end of that expansions levelling content and if you are efficient you should be able to reach the end without spending obscene amounts of time.

The only question is at what point during the expansion content might you expect to hit 50? Unless Blizzard plans for older expansions such as Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King to take longer compared to newer expansions such as Legion and Battle for Azeroth they will have to tune this so players will be done and reach level 50 until all the content has been completed. Otherwise Outland and Northrend will take much longer compared to Broken Isle's and Zandalar/Kul'Tiras. But even then, in your worst-case scenario you shouldn't be spending more than 16 hours levelling until reaching current expansion levelling content unless you are not even trying to level efficiently.


How could the levelling take any longer than this? It's not like levelling in BFA suddenly takes far longer after patch 9.0 drops? So unless they completely revert on their plans we already know the worst-case scenario in terms of levelling time.

- - - Updated - - -

Disagree. Bonus XP is not pointless.

I think it might be in the view of Blizzard. Their aim with heirlooms was to cut down on what already felt like a extremely long and bloated levelling experience for existing players.

But after making the levelling time for reaching current content down from like 60 hours+ like it takes today down to 10-16 hours they don't see any need for bonus EXP any more because they don't want the levelling to be much shorten than what the baseline already is.

Sure it's still boring levelling your alt number 10. But I don't think Blizzard sees that as a problem. You shouldn't be handed a relevant character and class just because you felt like having an alt. All players, even veterans should be required to actually invest some time into levelling a new character if they for some reason want a new alt. This shouldn't become too trivial and when the new levelling experience is already so much faster to begin with Blizzard don't see the need for it to be even shorter for anyone as the new levelling system will make you hit current expansion content much faster than you ever could even with EXP boosts.

If you for some reason just have to have a new alt and you can't bother with playing for 10-16 hours for it to reach Shadowlands content they you are free to pay for a boost or just the one you most likely got by purchasing the expansion or use one of the several you have gotten by purchasing previous expansions.



I'm not claiming EXP boost doesn't have any value. They sure have. If it takes me, let's say 15 hours to level in Shadowlands as I'm not typically the most efficient at levelling. It would still shave of quite a lot of time if my heirlooms still gave me the EXP boost. So of course it has value, but I don't think this servers the same value as Blizzard intended for the EXP on heirlooms to have when they introduced them in a time where levelling took several times longer than it will be doing after patch 9.0.


EDIT:

One big improvement with the levelling after patch 9.0 is of course how each alt will only be required to play through one of these:

Old World (Azeroth (Easter Kingdoms + Kalimdor)
Outland (Burning Crusade)
Northrend (Wrath of the Lich King)
Cataclysm (Twilight Highlands, Mount Hyjal etc..)
Pandaria (Mists of Pandaria)
Draenor (Warlords of Draenor)
Broken Isle's (Legion)
Zandalar/Kul'Tiras (Battle for Azeroth)



So if you level alt number one in Outland, you can take alt number two to Nothrend etc.. So it won't be nowhere as boring as it is today for several reason. First of it won't take even close to the same amount of time and secondly you won't be forced to going through the same content per alt unless you are going to level more than eight alts.

[Enty]

What i mean in practice is that if the xp bonus reduce the leveling time by X%, such percentage has way less value if baseline time needed drops a lot.

And it is still a bonus, even if it's small. I leveled 2 characters recently. Both wearing heirlooms (45% +xp as i dont have fishing ring) but one was RAFed, meaning it gets 50% +xp non stackable with heirlooms. Bonus xp between them is 5%. I have been doing same quests, killing same mobs. RAF character is 83 right now, while the heirloom one is 74. You can already see the difference, even if it is only 5%.

I don't think it is to give veterans an advantage. It was introduced the make the huge leveling times more bearable.
Not to give you an advantage over new players. The removal with the change to leveling time shorted the leveling time for everyone.

Would you rather they keep the old time but you have an advantage over new players? For whatever reason..

Perhaps an advantage is not correct work in this context. Maybe a bonus would fit better. Like "You leveled many characters, invested gold in your gear, so now as a bonus you will level new characters faster".

The removal of bonus XP is a change to offset the HUGE reduction in overall levelingtime. There is simply no reason for it anymore. Otherwise you can get rid of leveling alltogether because it becomes that trivial. For collectors you still have the heritage armor and it still servers a purpose in having gear that scales because oyu level faster than you can get gear and also whatever extra bonus they put on it. Maybe it is for endgame progression who knows butthere is something.

I would like them to remove them alltogether and just refund the money.

Few things:
1. We do not know what the overall leveling time reduction is going to be. This will be clear upon release. Blizzard can tune numbers any time. They let people level up during beta. If that goes too fast, they will increase it. And it will probably going to happen, as people one beta will most likely try to reach max level asap.
2. Again, as i said before, leveling still holds value, but it is decreasing with every new toon you level. Nobody is asking for instant max level (there are boosts for that already).
3. The gear point really only matters if you stay in one place and grind mobs. But if you do quests or dungeons (i do not know how it works with BGs leveling, does low level toons get any gear there?) then you, sooner or later, get upgrades, which are scaled to your current level. And that gear is usually on par or even better than heirlooms for at least several levels and when it becomes weaker, you already have another set of items. Trust me, i have been leveling a lot recently by questing and dungeons, and the gear rewards are plenty. Pet battle leveling requires no gear, but heirlooms and their xp bonus does help a lot.
4. They will not refund any gold. They don't have to. Because items will still have some sort of bonus to them, it will just not be near useful to +xp.

Please do understand, I am not arguing that they need to make leveling instant. They can tune it to whatever they like, but let players keep the bonus they invested their time and gold in. Heirlooms do not impact anyone negatively.

You shouldn't be handed a relevant character and class just because you felt like having an alt.

But you are right now, just need to spend 60 money.

All players, even veterans should be required to actually invest some time into levelling a new character if they for some reason want a new alt.

True, and we do. Heirlooms just speed it up a tad bit, which is fair for veterans imo.

This shouldn't become too trivial and when the new levelling experience is already so much faster to begin with Blizzard don't see the need for it to be even shorter for anyone as the new levelling system will make you hit current expansion content much faster than you ever could even with EXP boosts.

If blizzard revamped whole leveling experience with new quests and stories, i would agree. But not it is still same quests, same stories, same zones, same everything. It is already trivial. Why make it even worse?

One big improvement with the levelling after patch 9.0 is of course how each alt will only be required to play through one of these:

Old World (Azeroth (Easter Kingdoms + Kalimdor)
Outland (Burning Crusade)
Northrend (Wrath of the Lich King)
Cataclysm (Twilight Highlands, Mount Hyjal etc..)
Pandaria (Mists of Pandaria)
Draenor (Warlords of Draenor)
Broken Isle's (Legion)
Zandalar/Kul'Tiras (Battle for Azeroth)



So if you level alt number one in Outland, you can take alt number two to Nothrend etc.. So it won't be nowhere as boring as it is today for several reason. First of it won't take even close to the same amount of time and secondly you won't be forced to going through the same content per alt unless you are going to level more than eight alts.

I can do it now. The difference with SL change is that one will have to spend more time in selected xpac as, if i understand correctly, you will be locked to one until level 50. So how it's going to end is, unless blizzard finds a way to perfectly balance (lol) the xp across all xpacs, people will choose the fastest one (probably WoD or BFA), with the most streamlined quests.

[RamGuy]

1. We do not know what the overall leveling time reduction is going to be. This will be clear upon release. Blizzard can tune numbers any time. They let people level up during beta. If that goes too fast, they will increase it. And it will probably going to happen, as people one beta will most likely try to reach max level asap.

We don't know the exact numbers, but lets not pretend like we can't calculate some worst-case scenarios. As I stated above there really is no reason to expect levelling to level 50 (Shadowlands content) to take more than 16 hours tops unless you are levelling very casually and inefficient.

Why would playing through WoD, Legion, BFA etc suddenly take much longer after patch 9.0 compared to what it's taking today? We know all the outlines of how the levelling system is supposed to work out so there is no reason to behave like it might suddenly take ages to level even with the new system in place.

[Enty]

We don't know the exact numbers, but lets not pretend like we can't calculate some worst-case scenarios. As I stated above there really is no reason to expect levelling to level 50 (Shadowlands content) to take more than 16 hours tops unless you are levelling very casually and inefficient.

Why would playing through WoD, Legion, BFA etc suddenly take much longer after patch 9.0 compared to what it's taking today? We know all the outlines of how the levelling system is supposed to work out so there is no reason to behave like it might suddenly take ages to level even with the new system in place.

I will not argue with your first point. You are probably right, but as i said Blizzard can tune it to whatever they they want. But if leveling in beta will be too fast (and it probably will) they might tune it to the longer times.

About your second point: it is no secret that leveling in newer xpacs leveling is faster and more convenient than in vanilla, tbc or wrath. What that means that if you could level 60 - 80 in BFA today, it would be faster than leveling 60 - 80 in TBC or WRATH. Simply due to reduced travel times, more quests, everything more streamlined, etc. In SL, they will have to bring everything in line, because - correct me if i am wrong - you will choose single xpac to level 1 - 50 (or 15 -50 assuming new starting zone) and wont be able to jump between them. This means that Blizzard will have to balance all leveling xpacs to take roughly the same time, otherwise players will simply choose fastest one (Wod or BFA currently). So they will either have to increase xp in older xpacs (which i am sceptical of), or nerf currently fastest ones.

[nessfalco]

without the xp buff.. heirlooms are completely worthless.. no replacement could take the place of the xp buff, unless its legendary heirlooms..

I wouldn't say "completely useless." There is value in never having to replace gear while leveling. That said, that value is nowhere near what heirlooms currently cost.

[De Lupe]

Read everything, but i still do not see a valid, justified reasoning for removing bonus xp:

1. Advantage against new players? Old players earned their heirlooms by spending gold or doing other activities.
2. SL already has faster leveling? So what?
3. Interesting new bonuses? No new bonuses will be as universally useful as +xp. There are simply too many ways to level to make new bonuses universally better than +xp for everyone, without making heirlooms too op.
4. Heirlooms are seen as mandatory now? But you can unequip them and go about with what you get from dungeons, quests, etc. See, you have a choice.
5. Heirlooms scale with your level? It does not matter. Due to ilevel squishes, stats difference in items you get across 10 player levels is hardly noticeable. You could literally go on for 20+ player levels until you notice you have some greens equiped from when you started the character.

Again, can anyone give me a valid reason for why the xp bonus is removed?

It is not game breaking.
It is not mandatory.
It is not gained via RMT.
It is earned by playing the game in a normal way.

What is wrong with it?

They're fixing the leveling experience and can't balance it with heirlooms. They can't with bonus exp because they either have to tune it to take into account the bonus experience or tune it to ignore the bonus experience.

They have stated that they want a fresh player to be able to get from 1-50 in a single expansion without added experience modifiers. Which means they have to balance leveling around the absence of those bonuses. Which means people who have them would get up to max level in 10-12 hours.

By removing the bonus exp from heirlooms, they can balance leveling. The only bonuses left will be the two potions (one of which is exclusive to WoD content) and holiday effects which they can balance around much easier.

Sounds justified to me.

[Drusin]

But after making the levelling time for reaching current content down from like 60 hours+

Leveling doesn't take 60 hours unless you're shit lol

- - - Updated - - -

They're fixing the leveling experience and can't balance it with heirlooms. They can't with bonus exp because they either have to tune it to take into account the bonus experience or tune it to ignore the bonus experience.

They have stated that they want a fresh player to be able to get from 1-50 in a single expansion without added experience modifiers. Which means they have to balance leveling around the absence of those bonuses. Which means people who have them would get up to max level in 10-12 hours.

So what? What happens if people with looms get to max level in 10 hours? Game blow up?

- - - Updated - - -

but one was RAFed

one was RAFed

one was RAFed

one was RAFed

RAFed

Wait a fucking minute, is RAF keeping its xp bonus?


Now certainly... we have to remove RAFs bonus too using all the same arguments used against Heirlooms:
It's unnecessary, leveling will be fast enough
Balance around the leveling experience
No one ever said the bonus would be permanent

Oh, don't worry though, they can replace it with whatever they are putting on heirlooms.

Otherwise I'm going to have to say cash grab ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[De Lupe]

So what? What happens if people with looms get to max level in 10 hours? Game blow up?

With that thought process, why have leveling at all in an RPG? Why not just have characters instantly spawn at 60 and be fully raid geared so everyone can just do Mythic raids for one week and never play again?

If 20 hours without bonus experience (which is still faster than the 25 WITH bonus experience) is still too long for some people, then they are playing the wrong genre of game and should go elsewhere. The reason people play RPGs is the progression. Too little and people get bored; too much and people get burn out. The game in its current form has too much and the developers are trying to re-balance that by fixing the leveling. And part of that re-balancing is tuning the experience correctly which they can't do with heirlooms in their current form.

As someone who has spent a couple hundred thousand on heirlooms over the years, I'm fine with this decision if it means a smoother leveling experience for everyone.

[Drusin]

With that thought process, why have leveling at all in an RPG?

Easy, some people like it so they should be allowed to experience it in the fashion they want.

Why not just have characters instantly spawn at 60

I see no problem with that for those that want it, some people want it so much they pay for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ What would be the downside? Some RPG purist has their feelings hurt?

and be fully raid geared so everyone can just do Mythic raids for one week and never play again?

They can clear a Mythic raid in a week they are a baller lol

If 20 hours without bonus experience (which is still faster than the 25 WITH bonus experience) is still too long for some people, then they are playing the wrong genre of game and should go elsewhere.

Opinion noted

The reason people play RPGs is the progression.

Second opinion noted

Too little and people get bored, too much and people get burn out.

Some do I'm sure

The game in its current form has too much and the developers are trying to re-balance that by fixing the leveling. And part of that re-balancing is tuning the experience correctly which they can't do with heirlooms in their current form.

Why not? Just make it how they want and if people want to go faster good for them.

As someone who has spent a couple hundred thousand on heirlooms over the years, I'm fine with this decision if it means a smoother leveling experience for everyone.

I'm not team refund, I don't care about that, I just want the xp buff to remain but it's cool that you're fine with it, everyone should fight for what they believe in