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  1. #201
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    I mean Talanji has some major legitimacy to be angry at the current "Horde" and their decision of inclusion of a Proudmoore as one of their own. From her view the current "Horde" is the one who orchestrated the freedom and escape of Derek from being a potential weapon and a method of revenge against the person who killed her father and now they're actively trying to claim that he is an ally because he affords some limited benefits to one non-member of the Forsaken as her Light Seared Baubles get hot and bothered over his drenched remains (for an as of yet unexplored reason and no "because they're both weird undead" isn't an apt explanation).

    Though I'm a little confused at Lilian's outburst of "The Forsaken have been cast aside, spat on, and ignored for long enough.". Is this a reference to Forsaken treatment post-sylvanas escape? And if it is how long after the fall of N'zoth is this book taking place to allow the establishment of an active and sizable element of Forsaken harassment and degradation by the general populace of the Horde? Of course you have to wonder why would the Forsaken be singled out if this is the case as all other races also bore a significant contribution to Sylvanas' successes and actions in the last war.
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  2. #202
    The more unbelievable thing is that Derek freely goes back to the Forsaken after what they did and intended to do him. He should have a burning hatred for them...

  3. #203
    I'm only through a quarter yet and I pretty much already hate everyone. The one character addition (Talanji) that wasn't atrocious to me during all of BfA pretty much unraveled in the first 2 chapters of the book to such a degree, that I dredge to think what kind of heel turn will be nececssary for the rest of the book to make her likeable at all later. Muh Zandalari this, muh Zandalari that. I wanted to stop right then and there.

    You can be bitter about joining a foreign power that was in an all out war in hopes they would solve your problems, because you are so inept that you didn't manage on your own, but that doesn't mean you get to be suprised that you now joined that active war. That she is bitching like a petulant child that the horde isn't self destructing itself against the alliance anymore because she wants revenge for becoming an active participant in a war and getting hit during it makes her seem like completely different character compared to the beginning of BfA where she clearly was wise and knew when to act and when not.
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  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I'd say the Nightborne should by all counts be stronger than the Blood Elves, and I'd switch the Bilgewater and Zandalari around in scaling as Zandalar is both a center for trade, a power bloc with serious spiritual and political chops with all trolls and no slouch in the army department, but overall I agree with @Val the Moofia Boss. Good post.
    Although you'd have to remember that the Zandalari had massive loses in BfA. The war with G'huun and the Blood Trolls, a massive part of their army following Zul when he dethroned Rastakhan(that army you trolled and bombed in a quest ingame was bigger by far than anything Talanji could muster later in my opinion). On top of that the attack of the Alliance. And all the loses the Zandalari had back in MoP. I question is, can Zandalari trolls multiply as fast as other troll tribes. If they can, they could recover faster from this, but currently i don't think they are that powerful in practice. They have big potential though.

    The other part i would disagree are the Maghar Orcs. There was a blue post that clearly stated, that the "army" and representation of the Maghar Orcs, Ogre, Gronn and Ogron ingame wasn't well done to represent the size and power of the Maghar who were teleported to Durotar in the questline. Because apparently the spell was not limited on that small settlement we saw in the quest, that was besieged by Yrels forces, but the spell teleported Orcs, Ogre, Gronn, Ogron etc from all over Gorgrond to Durotar and the blue stated, that their numbers are large. I hope they will get a proper settlement somewhere, or better a fortress like Blackrock Foundry, and some fleshed out characters from all the clans. If their can be an AU daugther of Durotan and Draka, there could be sons and daughters of the other warchiefs as well. I personally don't care that they are from an alternative Universe at this point. The Orcs and Maghar are in dire need of some awesome characters who are not Alliance pansies.

  5. #205
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    With the exception of Calia, I do like how Roux handles the leadership dynamic here. Golden did an okay job of it in the BTS scene, showing this can just as easily be done with a Warchief, but the Council setup lives and dies on the basis of how often you can have these people clash over things. The more they agree, the less purpose there is for them to exist. Even blocs should have various reasons to do so - see how Thalyssra and Bob's arguments are different from Voss's on why they shouldn't do things and how the Mag'har don't give a shit until the reference to Grommash Hold is made. Having a raucous atmosphere only makes sense, though if there is a mediator I suspect it'll be Thrall unless he's gone back to being the orc leader.

    As said in the other thread, the biggest issue as I see it is that it's bound for an anticlimax within 250 pages, because this is not a dynamic that's being carried into Shadowlands from what we can see.
    From what I've heard thus far in the audiobook (can't beat $Free.99), Eitrigg has taken the role of interim orc leader 'til someone can take the gig, and Thrall is the de facto mediator as everyone tends to shut up and simmer down when he starts talking. For once, his position as the third Warchief doesn't bite him in the ass here, and a mediator role fits him well without pushing him into a position of power he obviously doesn't want. More than once mention is made that he really just wants to go the hell home, but he's not about to make the same mistake he made last time and ditch the Horde while he's still needed to fuck off to scenic Nagrand on his own thing.
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  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    The more unbelievable thing is that Derek freely goes back to the Forsaken after what they did and intended to do him. He should have a burning hatred for them...
    Blizzard's Laws of Alliance Stances on Horde:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
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  7. #207
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    From what I've heard thus far in the audiobook (can't beat $Free.99), Eitrigg has taken the role of interim orc leader 'til someone can take the gig, and Thrall is the de facto mediator as everyone tends to shut up and simmer down when he starts talking. For once, his position as the third Warchief doesn't bite him in the ass here, and a mediator role fits him well without pushing him into a position of power he obviously doesn't want. More than once mention is made that he really just wants to go the hell home, but he's not about to make the same mistake he made last time and ditch the Horde while he's still needed to fuck off to scenic Nagrand on his own thing.
    Eitrigg is too old. Why not Nazgrel? Why is he still in Thrallmar when Outland is about to crumble anytime?
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  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    From what I've heard thus far in the audiobook (can't beat $Free.99), Eitrigg has taken the role of interim orc leader 'til someone can take the gig, and Thrall is the de facto mediator as everyone tends to shut up and simmer down when he starts talking. For once, his position as the third Warchief doesn't bite him in the ass here, and a mediator role fits him well without pushing him into a position of power he obviously doesn't want. More than once mention is made that he really just wants to go the hell home, but he's not about to make the same mistake he made last time and ditch the Horde while he's still needed to fuck off to scenic Nagrand on his own thing.
    I'm currently making my way through the book but I haven't seen mention of Eitrigg yet and Geyarah hasn't shown up. The parts early on where Thrall feels a bit tense entering the meetings and has to calm himself down that he won't be expected to be the center of attention again are the small bits of characterization, like him picking a more humble tent that I've quite enjoyed thus far.

    @Reinhart11

    The Mag'har are a weird grey area regarding their power which is why I don't want them to commit. The Dev statement is one benefit and looking it up reminded that I'm still annoyed that we never got those massive gronn from the concept art that had burrows on top of them with troops. In terms of potential among allied races they have the most and more than most regular races in terms of interactions. From reinvigorating orc clan identities, setting up a more industrialized base somewhere (my hope is Blackrock Mountain, but it's a pipe dream, though a Barrens railroad as many have said already would be good too) to the individual connection from the clans with other, Shadowmoon and their void with the blood elves, Shattered Hand with Forsaken, Thunderlords/Frostwolves with the furries, etc. Conflict with the Alliance goes without saying. Sadly, most of this is a pipe dream since they simply have no cast and I don't think Blizzard would do so. The least they could do though is open up the Underhold and make that their base rather than lounging around in a fucking random barracks. It's especially galling since the Horde does canonically have the Underhold and they even bothered putting assets in there that are only used for one shitty scenario.

    Regarding the Zandalari, they still have a lot of money, even if their forces and the like are depleted and while birth rates won't be relevant even if we go Watsonian with it because of the timeframe, being the prime tribe gives them a lot of room to field proxy armies and have diplomatic clout with the other trolls. They've been beaten down a lot, but they have room for soft power and trade. Dazar'alor is shown to us as a pretty big port in that vein and the navy shouldn't be that hard to rebuild.
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  9. #209
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Eitrigg is too old. Why not Nazgrel? Why is he still in Thrallmar when Outland is about to crumble anytime?
    "That's not the story we want to tell right now," prolly.
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  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    "That's not the story we want to tell right now," prolly.
    When is ever?

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    "That's not the story we want to tell right now," prolly.
    I'd say "they might have genuinely forgotten Nazgrel exists" but we got the other guy from the alliance camp down the bend to come back this expansion. Maybe they just hate him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  12. #212
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I'd say "they might have genuinely forgotten Nazgrel exists" but we got the other guy from the alliance camp down the bend to come back this expansion. Maybe they just hate him.
    Nazgrel shows in the Legion PvP quest when you reach Horde Prestige Rank 2, alongside a bunch of other Horde NPC's in a kind of ceremony in the Undercity.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
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  13. #213
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I'd say "they might have genuinely forgotten Nazgrel exists" but we got the other guy from the alliance camp down the bend to come back this expansion. Maybe they just hate him.
    As Aucald mentioned, homie's still around, they just like to hyperfocus when telling Horde storylines and unfortunately, Nazgrel doesn't slot in well either as one of Sylvanas's yes-man subordinates or in open rebellion. Maybe post-Shadowlands we'll see him make a comeback as part of the factions' soft reset they've been pushing for from 8.2.5 onward.
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  14. #214
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Nazgrel shows in the Legion PvP quest when you reach Horde Prestige Rank 2, alongside a bunch of other Horde NPC's in a kind of ceremony in the Undercity.
    then they just hate him

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    From what I've heard thus far in the audiobook (can't beat $Free.99), Eitrigg has taken the role of interim orc leader 'til someone can take the gig, and Thrall is the de facto mediator as everyone tends to shut up and simmer down when he starts talking. For once, his position as the third Warchief doesn't bite him in the ass here, and a mediator role fits him well without pushing him into a position of power he obviously doesn't want. More than once mention is made that he really just wants to go the hell home, but he's not about to make the same mistake he made last time and ditch the Horde while he's still needed to fuck off to scenic Nagrand on his own thing.
    Eitrigg is senile already, how the hell is blizzard shoving him? they just seems to cannot focus on other orcs, its so sad they killed almost all of then and they had to focus on 2 grandfathers because they seems too lazy to grab the younger ones.

    well that means eitrigg life is on the line.

  15. #215
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    As Aucald mentioned, homie's still around, they just like to hyperfocus when telling Horde storylines and unfortunately, Nazgrel doesn't slot in well either as one of Sylvanas's yes-man subordinates or in open rebellion. Maybe post-Shadowlands we'll see him make a comeback as part of the factions' soft reset they've been pushing for from 8.2.5 onward.
    he could be neither, as I have said in my previous thread he could've been one of the Horde leaders in the Battle for Stromgarde where he takes the initiative to lead the Frostwolves to help the Horde because Alliance taking Stromgarde (and Gilneas) means GG for the Frostwolves. Vereesa would have been his Alliance counterpart

    Okay, if Drek'thar doesn't want to help then Nazgrel will take or solicit the lead and will most likely get Bragor or Cromush by his side.
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  16. #216
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    From what I've heard thus far in the audiobook (can't beat $Free.99), Eitrigg has taken the role of interim orc leader 'til someone can take the gig, and Thrall is the de facto mediator as everyone tends to shut up and simmer down when he starts talking. For once, his position as the third Warchief doesn't bite him in the ass here, and a mediator role fits him well without pushing him into a position of power he obviously doesn't want. More than once mention is made that he really just wants to go the hell home, but he's not about to make the same mistake he made last time and ditch the Horde while he's still needed to fuck off to scenic Nagrand on his own thing.
    I guess you can beat that, because it sounds like you are listening to the wrong book. Eitrigg is never mentioned, not even once, in Shadow's Rising.

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  17. #217
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    I guess you can beat that, because it sounds like you are listening to the wrong book. Eitrigg is never mentioned, not even once, in Shadow's Rising.
    You're right, on second listening. Doesn't help that I usually listen to audiobooks while driving to/from work and, with the ongoing pandemic, my attention is entirely on the road (last thing I need is someone in the middle of a cabin fever-induced breakdown slamming into me doing 60). Seems like Thrall is the orc leader despite pretty clearly not wanting the job.
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