[Spoilers]Lilian was quick to respond. “XXX is one of us now. You will have to acce

[VinceVega]

The only reason calia is dead is because she did not belong to the alliance no?

[Super Dickmann]

He was treated iffy by many of the Zandalari because of his personality/nature as a trickster god but was also still worshiped and part of the Zandalari pantheon. It's not like he was some random barely known Loa that only 2 trolls worshiped.

My point is that she is focusing on blaming the Alliance when she should be looking at the mistakes she, her dad, and the Zandalari made. She had been reasonable and thought shit out all through BFA willing to check on the Blood Trolls and stuff instead of just listening to reports and believing generals like her dad did but now she suddenly wants retribution when she knows Sylvanas was to blame for everything and the Alliance let the Horde get off scot-free again. They already had to make a several hundred year old God King look utterly incompetent just to make Zandalari playable they don't need to end up doing a 180 on his daughter just to keep forcing the faction conflict narrative down our throats.

How known he is is irrelevant to the point being raised - it's that he was suspected since he's a trickster god and because, as Bwon himself says, being a death spirit means he's not really good for long term patronage since he can't make the crops grow or stuff like that. Point being, even if it wasn't a test, which we know it was, Talanji doesn't trust Bwon at this point. But even if she did trust Bwon and even if she did use Sylvanas's only weakness - a bullet to the head, to kill her and be freed of the deal, what exactly would she gain by this?

Talanji and the Zandalari are among the few groups to benefit from Sylvanas as Warchief - Sylvanas didn't get her put in prison, she had her freed. Sylvanas didn't get her kingdom nearly taken over by a maggot god, she sent the troops and made the commitments to bust her out. Sylvanas wasn't the one to tell her to quit over her dad's funeral, nor did Bwon push all that hard to get her offed, he also helped defend the city from the Alliance once her dad and company got offed. Under Sylvanas, she got a special deal with the Horde the leaders didn't have. Then she learns that Sylvanas only did all this because she could commit as many Horde as she liked since the important part was the bodycount and that Talanji no longer has the special position she did with the Horde, she's just a council member who can be outvoted by the assorted castrati - but her dad's still dead and her city still got raided. Being a bit miffed stands to reason. She's barely even interacted with the eunuchs in the Council before that point and she has had zero involvement with any of the big name Horde crimes either - if anyone has zero reason to start out trusting the Council and dislike the Alliance, it's Talanji.

Besides, at the end of the book she 90% chills out anyway, which is a shame as it'd be fertile ground for conflict, but not unexpected.

[Aucald]

Besides, at the end of the book she 90% chills out anyway, which is a shame as it'd be fertile ground for conflict, but not unexpected.

She defrosts concerning the Horde and being on the council, given that the Horde showed up to haul her ass out of the fire. She pointedly does not drop her vendetta against Jaina, though; so I imagine that on the Horde council she's going to be the Greymane analogue advocating for conflict.

[Super Dickmann]

She defrosts concerning the Horde and being on the council, given that the Horde showed up to haul her ass out of the fire. She pointedly does not drop her vendetta against Jaina, though; so I imagine that on the Horde council she's going to be the Greymane analogue advocating for conflict.

That's welcome to hear. From what I've seen on the other thread, the Horde bails her out for the fiftieth time when Zandalar gets attacked for the fiftieth time. Can you drop the basic info on it, since the whole Zandalari rebel plotline has kind of skirted by on the other topic.

[FlasKamel]

I don't mind the story of this, but don't like it as a focus. It's basically what the Forsaken have gone through since WC3. This late in the story I don't care much for having it be an ex-Alliance plot again. Let them develop further as their own thing, not the Cata intro part 900.

[Aucald]

That's welcome to hear. From what I've seen on the other thread, the Horde bails her out for the fiftieth time when Zandalar gets attacked for the fiftieth time. Can you drop the basic info on it, since the whole Zandalari rebel plotline has kind of skirted by on the other topic.

"Fiftieth" is pretty exaggerated. What basically happens is that an individual named "The Widow's Bite," who was once Talanji's cherished childhood friend Apari, has grown embittered and angry that Talanji didn't save her when a portion of Dazar'alor collapsed during the Battle of Dazar'alor (crushing almost half of her body). Using Nazmir has a hiding place she sort of taps into the general mistrust and suspicion the populace the people have toward Bwonsamdi being the new Loa of Kings, and basically is able to conduct a few assassination attempts on Talanji inside Dazar'alor itself (under the proverbial noses of Talanji's guards). Coupled with a propaganda campaign suggested by Nathanos, this sort of decays Talanji's own PR score and causes more people to defect to the Widow's side, although her numbers never really grow all that much.

Things come to a head when the Widow starts desecrating Bwonsamdi's shrines in Nazmir as a means to weaken him, and as Bwonsamdi grows weaker his sympathetic bond with Talanji effects her, sapping her of her strength and seemingly aging her, making her more and more vulnerable. Finally, unable to rally the Zanchuli Council to commit to another invasion of Nazmir, she sort of launches one unilaterally and is repulsed (this is when Zekhan gets briefly killed before Bwonsamdi brings him back to life). Thrall and Ji finally show up, breaking their way through the conjured storm that's sealing Zandalar off from naval travel, and Thalyssra manages to port in a big enough force to take the fight to the Widow before they can kill Bwonsamdi at the Necropolis.

The book ends with Talanji reaffirming support for the Horde and leveraging the defeat of the Widow and securing of Nazmir to rally her people. She's got a lot of work ahead of her, still; as a final scene shows that people are still suspicious of her connection to Bwonsamdi and afraid she (or he) will prohibit worship of other Loa like Gonk or P'aku. Talanji confirms she won't do such a thing, and privately negotiates a new deal with Bwonsamdi to ensure that while he remains the Loa of Kings he won't force other Zandalari to worship him above all the other Loa.

[Super Dickmann]

@Aucald

Cheers for the run-down, this sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to going through the details. Does the Widow's Bite have any relation to the Shadra cult that tried to attack her during the coronation, or are they a separate group tapping into the same general sentiment?

[Aucald]

@Aucald

Cheers for the run-down, this sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to going through the details. Does the Widow's Bite have any relation to the Shadra cult that tried to attack her during the coronation, or are they a separate group tapping into the same general sentiment?

I believe that's the intent, yes. Apari is the daughter of Yazma, the priestess who allied with Zul, consumed Shadra, and was defeated at Atal'Dazar. Apari never showed up in-game during BfA, but her forces do seem to be the same ones that caused trouble during the coronation. Apari worked against her own mother until the Battle of Dazar'alor, when she felt abandoned by Talanji who essentially left her to die because Rastakhan was under attack in the throne room and Talanji was en route to aid him.

[Mehrunes]

You mean the innkeeper who said we were stronger when we kept murdering each other over making peace and working together?

Given how Wrathion's point was even more in favor of factions killing each other, to the point one completely gains the upper hand, by dismissing the inkeeper you're only throwing your Wrathion under the bus.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

So when is Lordaeron gonna get rebuilt by the alliance and put some distant blood related person to the Menethil bloodline?

[Artelia]

Orders don't mean much, but action do.. so Rokhan does have a say since he was most with her throughout bfa.
No one stood up when baine was taken by Sylvanas.. so yea they were kinda traitors there..

Rokhan was just soldier ..everything he say in BFA is Warchief this and Warchief that. And Baine killed horde soldiers to save alliance prisoner ..yeah. Nobody will stood up in situation like that.

[jackofwind]

Are those excerpt of something ? Because it seems to push the idea that Flynn and Shaw are gays.

That a problem for you?

[Specialka]

That a problem for you?

Absolutely not. I even find this approach interesting, but I would like to know if this is official material or trash fanfic.

[fatgunn]

Absolutely not. I even find this approach interesting, but I would like to know if this is official material or trash fanfic.

Its directly from the book. There's even a bit at one point talking about how Shaw really like how Flynn smells.

"He hadn't notice that Flynn smelled as strongly of salt and soap as he did of whiskey, and the combination was intoxicating."

[Ardenaso]

The only reason calia is dead is because she did not belong to the alliance no?

I thought I saw somewhere that Sylvanas said "she isn't Alliance anyway so you have no right to give sanctions over it" or something; not sure, lemme find it

but then again it's still amazing that Sylvanas never waged war against the Argent Lordaeronians even so after Tirion is dead

[jackofwind]

Absolutely not. I even find this approach interesting, but I would like to know if this is official material or trash fanfic.

It's an excerpt from the book, but I see your point that the two are hard to distinguish from each other.

[Traveler Voltin]

So when is Lordaeron gonna get rebuilt by the alliance and put some distant blood related person to the Menethil bloodline?

seeing as Voss and Calia plan to rebuild Lordaeron. the alliance to beat them to it.
i hate those 2 but at least the plan is a good one.

[Darknessvamp]

I mean Talanji has some major legitimacy to be angry at the current "Horde" and their decision of inclusion of a Proudmoore as one of their own. From her view the current "Horde" is the one who orchestrated the freedom and escape of Derek from being a potential weapon and a method of revenge against the person who killed her father and now they're actively trying to claim that he is an ally because he affords some limited benefits to one non-member of the Forsaken as her Light Seared Baubles get hot and bothered over his drenched remains (for an as of yet unexplored reason and no "because they're both weird undead" isn't an apt explanation).

Though I'm a little confused at Lilian's outburst of "The Forsaken have been cast aside, spat on, and ignored for long enough.". Is this a reference to Forsaken treatment post-sylvanas escape? And if it is how long after the fall of N'zoth is this book taking place to allow the establishment of an active and sizable element of Forsaken harassment and degradation by the general populace of the Horde? Of course you have to wonder why would the Forsaken be singled out if this is the case as all other races also bore a significant contribution to Sylvanas' successes and actions in the last war.

[Raisei]

The more unbelievable thing is that Derek freely goes back to the Forsaken after what they did and intended to do him. He should have a burning hatred for them...

[Cosmic Janitor]

I'm only through a quarter yet and I pretty much already hate everyone. The one character addition (Talanji) that wasn't atrocious to me during all of BfA pretty much unraveled in the first 2 chapters of the book to such a degree, that I dredge to think what kind of heel turn will be nececssary for the rest of the book to make her likeable at all later. Muh Zandalari this, muh Zandalari that. I wanted to stop right then and there.

You can be bitter about joining a foreign power that was in an all out war in hopes they would solve your problems, because you are so inept that you didn't manage on your own, but that doesn't mean you get to be suprised that you now joined that active war. That she is bitching like a petulant child that the horde isn't self destructing itself against the alliance anymore because she wants revenge for becoming an active participant in a war and getting hit during it makes her seem like completely different character compared to the beginning of BfA where she clearly was wise and knew when to act and when not.