Poll: Which era of wow sucked most?

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  1. #601
    WoD
    You only got to raid. Reputations were useless so there was no incentive to do them other than Pathfinder. The Challenge Mode rewards were not my favorite, and you could kinda tell where they started cutting content (remember the zones around Shattrath in Talador?).

  2. #602
    Mop was the first expansion that made me take a break from wow. Not even sure how people would consider BFA to be the worst. There's always a group of people who consider the current expac the worst, seen this for 10 years in mmo-champ lol, never changes. As for WoD, i had more fun there than Mop (almost everyone person i know quit during Mop, just didn't feel like wow, i like different but it has to be good). And Legion i would consider the best expac after Wotlk.
    Last edited by tommyhil622; 2020-07-22 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #603
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    MOP so bad. soooooo bad.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Gearing yourself purely in PvP was almost never possible in WoW
    Unless you were aiming for a high rating, primarily relying on PvP was pretty viable in any expansion up to Legion since TBC.
    In particular because PvP specific stats existed and PvE didn't shower you as much with gear as the game does since Legion.

    Especially in MoP / WoD where they pretty much enforced that PvP gear is superior to PvE gear in PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Bgs and ashran was infested with people who didn't give a flying fuck about pvp.
    The gear available via honor wasn't even that good and the gear from the weekly Ashran / Conquest (Rated PvP) was slightly worse than Heroic Items.
    And if your "primary" goal was still PvE, then you also passed on Tier set bonuses and powerful Trinkets.

    I agree that PvP gear that is available from "easy to grab" sources is an issue, but that's the hill Blizzard chose to die on once they decided to remove PvP specific stats.
    And giving PvP'ers the middle finger is most certainly not a solution.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeedojin View Post
    I was one of the people getting fairly lucky with legendaires. The first one I got early, although it was the stupid shield neck. The second one was second best for Demo, and the third one not to shortly after was third bis. Then as Nighthold came around they nerfed the BiS one making it drop to third so I ended up with the two best ones for the spec.
    It felt good, but it was hardly fair.
    It's funny too because Legiondary RNG could very much have an impact on how you viewed the expansion. A raider who got their two BiS Legiondaries in the first month would have a much different perspective than one who had to grind until Antorus to get it. A few of my friends would sometimes completely reroll their toons if the first Legiondary wasn't a good one. (I have a buddy who has 8 DHs.) Early Legion was a complete shitshow if you had any intentions of playing competitively. It didn't get fixed until after Antorus progression was already over for most guilds.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    It's funny too because Legiondary RNG could very much have an impact on how you viewed the expansion. A raider who got their two BiS Legiondaries in the first month would have a much different perspective than one who had to grind until Antorus to get it. A few of my friends would sometimes completely reroll their toons if the first Legiondary wasn't a good one. (I have a buddy who has 8 DHs.) Early Legion was a complete shitshow if you had any intentions of playing competitively. It didn't get fixed until after Antorus progression was already over for most guilds.
    Grinded for legendaries until Antorus? Fixed after Antorus? Someone clearly didn't play Legion. Most people had all legendaries by then. It's reason why blizz kept making new ones. But you are only talking about your opinion right? Because you seem to base it on how it was for everyone, which couldn't be further from the truth. Try to have some nuances. Sure legendary acquisition sucked, but to say there are so many that base it on that is just wrong. It doesn't really flow with your usual rationale. But since it's Legion you just ignore that.

    I got horrible legendaries on each on my characters except 2, which I remember very clearly. Many in my guild got shite as well in the start. Didn't stop us from having the time of our wow-lives in legion. Why is it that Legendaries had so much impact on everyone's life in Legion(which is what you are saying here) while for BfA that's alright if there is something wrong with it? Most people don't care right?

    Early Legion was a blessing, and was the best time in the game for ages for many, me included. Best 6-9 months in the game. Legendaries was just one part of the expansion, if you didn't like it, sure. But to base so much on one thing being bad in one expansion seems both far-fetched and silly.

    It's a very tiny minority that rerolls to get the best things in the game. Very tiny. Like, it's so few that to base this all on those is unreasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I hated legion as an alt aholic I have been punished since CATA IMO. I loved how fast leveling was in cata as well since it is the thing I hate most about the game. I have not truly enjoyed the game since MOP when Disc Priests were perfect and pre nerf Monk Tanks were fantastic. I despised the overall theme and the king fu pandas though. Really my favorite times in WOW were TBC and WOLTK, I could still run Kara, mags lair and Gruuls lair weekly and love every minute of them to this day.
    I can see how both Legion and BfA could suck for people with alts. For me I played 14 chars in Legion, while now in BfA I could barely keep 4 up. But gameplay was so much fun in Legion, and each alts had something unique to their specc/class that made it both more interesting and funny. Legion and BfA is night and day, and class design and the content is the biggest difference. The systems is so and so, but if gameplay sucks, then players don't do it. Which is my biggest issue with BfA.

    My favorite expansion is TBC, and had good times in WotLK indeed! But I rate Legion up with TBC, I think it was good. But it wasn't for everyone sadly. I love that comment about running all the raids over and over in TBC, I did as well. Loved every minute and to do Kara or Gruul while progressing Sunwell was still super fun.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-07-22 at 05:31 PM.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Grinded for legendaries until Antorus? Fixed after Antorus? Someone clearly didn't play Legion. Most people had all legendaries by then. It's reason why blizz kept making new ones. But you are only talking about your opinion right? Because you seem to base it on how it was for everyone, which couldn't be further from the truth. Try to have some nuances. Sure legendary acquisition sucked, but to say there are so many that base it on that is just wrong. It doesn't really flow with your usual rationale. But since it's Legion you just ignore that.

    I got horrible legendaries on each on my characters except 2, which I remember very clearly. Many in my guild got shite as well in the start. Didn't stop us from having the time of our wow-lives in legion. Why is it that Legendaries had so much impact on everyone's life in Legion(which is what you are saying here) while for BfA that's alright if there is something wrong with it? Most people don't care right?

    Early Legion was a blessing, and was the best time in the game for ages for many, me included. Best 6-9 months in the game. Legendaries was just one part of the expansion, if you didn't like it, sure. But to base so much on one thing being bad in one expansion seems both far-fetched and silly.

    It's a very tiny minority that rerolls to get the best things in the game. Very tiny. Like, it's so few that to base this all on those is unreasonable.
    I'm basing this on my experience in a (fairly shitty) weekend Mythic raiding guild. The culture in my guild was very much the polar opposite of what you're describing and people were routinely benched for underperformance. We even had a fucking spreadsheet with everybody's AP values on it to make sure that people didn't fall behind. You already know I got burned out trying to keep up with this but I know for a fact that my single guild wasn't the only one which did this or had these kinds of views about the content. If I were in a guild that was less obsessed with optimal performance I likely would have had a much better experience. One of my favorite WoW YTers, WillE, did a video about this recently... he dives into the idea that "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." I think early Legion definitely suffered from that problem a lot more than BfA ever did.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm basing this on my experience in a (fairly shitty) weekend Mythic raiding guild. The culture in my guild was very much the polar opposite of what you're describing and people were routinely benched for underperformance. We even had a fucking spreadsheet with everybody's AP values on it to make sure that people didn't fall behind. You already know I got burned out trying to keep up with this but I know for a fact that my single guild wasn't the only one which did this or had these kinds of views about the content. If I were in a guild that was less obsessed with optimal performance I likely would have had a much better experience. One of my favorite WoW YTers, WillE, did a video about this recently... he dives into the idea that "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." I think early Legion definitely suffered from that problem a lot more than BfA ever did.
    It's because BfA added them in 8.2, but mostly in 8.3 with corruption. That's the difference. So yeah, Legion "suffered" more, but still had a great resurgence of players that were active in the first 3-6 months of the expansion.

    If BfA only went with Azerite Armor and AP, BfA would have been much more lighter on the systems than Legion. But seeing blizzard didn't learn much by Legendaries, they added Corruption with far more rng and no bad luck protection. It all steams from issues they made with Azerite Armor in the first place. While with ap and legendaries they could tune it down, and it also had a natural "nerf" in acquisition by adding gear-vendor, more raids and more dungeons which made systems in Legion more and more forgiving while it went the opposite way with BfA.

    I don't doubt many mythic guilds with a mindset like you describe, while still not getting the success they expect so they just pressure the players even more(not saying your guild specifically) Player skill was more important in Legion than it is in BfA(from 8.2 and out) so not having optimal legendaries actually did less impact than best essences and corruption ever did.

    But most players are not like that. And you are saying this so many times in so many threads that most people are not hardcore, most people play for fun. Which is true. But Legendaries is the exception for this? That I don't get. I can understand the hate, because the acquisition really sucked for a good while. But AP was much stronger than having the correct Legiondaries, and AP was so fast to get after 7.1.5 that the focus on Legiondairies is for me strange.

    Maybe I am just alone in liking Legion despite Legiondairies. I still miss that orange text with that ding sound popping off and you never knew where it would come. Even if it was prydaz in October 2016...
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-07-22 at 06:03 PM.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Again, I really ask you to think about what you're saying: The game changed to appeal to a changing playerbase. Is it reasonable to think that a game should be universally appealing to every single person who has played it over the course of 16-plus years? You may have grown out of the game -- and others may have as well -- but how much of the game's changes are merely boneheaded decisions by Blizzard and how much of it is Blizzard attempting to make a game which continues to appeal to an ever-changing playerbase?
    Some changes are made not because players want them, but because it's more profitable for Blizzard. Simple and easy mechanics, like badges and badge vendors were removed, because Blizzard wanted to artificially stretch content. Some players adapted, but some just quit and are replaced with others. So, will current players, who've get used to grind/RNG/time-gating, do such easy and simple content, as badge runs?

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm basing this on my experience in a (fairly shitty) weekend Mythic raiding guild. The culture in my guild was very much the polar opposite of what you're describing and people were routinely benched for underperformance. We even had a fucking spreadsheet with everybody's AP values on it to make sure that people didn't fall behind. You already know I got burned out trying to keep up with this but I know for a fact that my single guild wasn't the only one which did this or had these kinds of views about the content. If I were in a guild that was less obsessed with optimal performance I likely would have had a much better experience. One of my favorite WoW YTers, WillE, did a video about this recently... he dives into the idea that "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game." I think early Legion definitely suffered from that problem a lot more than BfA ever did.
    Yep, we had that too. I was in quite mediocre but not too bad rank guild due to having a lots of raiding hours.

    I didnt get my boots for 8 months despite doing every singe damn emissary, couple m+ a week, 800 raid bosses including lfr.
    RL used to check each person AP level and encouraged them to "farm more". Eventually only 3 people still play the game from original squad everyone else burned out during legion.

    I have a friend who like to grind a tons. He used to be in top ~80 guild in the world and competed for top 100 AP level in world (from all characters).
    He quit after first Legion raid and only came back in BfA. His daily routine was to farm MoS from dusk til dawn.

    In BfA i don't even do emissaries. BfA is legion done right.

    Corruption is not even close as bad as legiondaries were. If you wanted to grind your bis one, you could do so in week.
    Since you are showered in loot anyways so it is bound to happen.
    And even if you had extremely bad luck, you could just farm gold from doing boosts and straight up buy one from AH.

    Something that was not possible with legiondaries.
    If you got shit ones, your best bet was to level another of the same class or fucking buy account with real money cause there was no other option, especially where softcap was in place.

  11. #611
    wod obviously. nothing comes even CLOSE.

  12. #612
    I'm still surprised not many are saying WotLK is the worst. A lot of people started playing in Wrath so maybe they have fond memories of being a noob just like i do with TBC.

    I still think it's one of the best expansions but at least I know it's because I started my journey then. Objectively though, Legion was the best. I mean at first it was annoying and grindy but it got SOO much better around ToS.
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  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Some changes are made not because players want them, but because it's more profitable for Blizzard. Simple and easy mechanics, like badges and badge vendors were removed, because Blizzard wanted to artificially stretch content.
    That's where you're wrong kiddo. They aren't "artificially stretching content." They're protecting players from themselves. The alternative to gated content is a compulsion to consume the content as quickly as possible. And due to the competitive nature of the game (especially modern WoW -- see: early Legion AP farming), if you aren't consuming at the same rate as everybody else, you're a detriment to your team.

  14. #614
    I would probably vote Burning Crusade. The dungeons were boring and I didn't like the look for most zones, I stopped mid way in the expansion and came back in WotLK but that was probably also attributed to tons of guild drama that sucked out the fun. It's basically a mixed bag of personal reasons not related to the expansion itself so not sure how fair it is.
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  15. #615
    Reeeaaally close between WoD and BFA. Voted BFA because WoD at least had class sets and didn't outright remove an entire battleground.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    That's where you're wrong kiddo. They aren't "artificially stretching content." They're protecting players from themselves. The alternative to gated content is a compulsion to consume the content as quickly as possible. And due to the competitive nature of the game (especially modern WoW -- see: early Legion AP farming), if you aren't consuming at the same rate as everybody else, you're a detriment to your team.
    Valor had weekly cap. Blizzard just hate, when players have means of guaranteed progression.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  17. #617
    BFA, Legion, WoD and Cata were the worst expansions.

  18. #618
    Wotlk, Cata, MoP, WoD and BFA all did so much damage to Wow that it's hard to pick.
    For me, honestly, BFA beats out even MoP for bad.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Valor had weekly cap. Blizzard just hate, when players have means of guaranteed progression.
    Well duh, how can they keep you in the game without infinite grinding?

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarosanuNr1 View Post
    Reeeaaally close between WoD and BFA. Voted BFA because WoD at least had class sets and didn't outright remove an entire battleground.
    I'll take that over how much was removed in WoD.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...rds-of-Draenor

    I honestly think there was more content removed from WoD than what was in the game. and I get it, things get removed its apart of the development cycle but its more on the abundance of what was removed than things being removed in general that baffles me.
    Last edited by Orby; 2020-07-24 at 12:49 PM.

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