View Poll Results: Which era of wow sucked most?

Voters
1375. You may not vote on this poll
  • Shadowlands

    17 1.24%
  • BFA

    497 36.15%
  • Legion

    41 2.98%
  • Warlords of Draenor

    548 39.85%
  • Mists of Pandaria

    53 3.85%
  • Cataclysm

    148 10.76%
  • Wrath of the Lich King

    8 0.58%
  • The Burning Crusade

    28 2.04%
  • Vanilla

    35 2.55%
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  1. #841
    When it comes to class design and content then WoD was a drop so steep it's not even funny. BfA is a pile of shit also, but after WoD I've had 0 expectations anyways so I'm not disappointed really.
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Nobody is stopping you to play Elemental casually during questing or raiding #1000 with your disabled mage friends.

  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    With the end of an expansion comes my biannual worst expansion poll.

    Which expansion/era is the absolute worst, and why?
    BFA or WOD, I can't decide!

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula Deen View Post
    Cataclysm is still the worst. Nothing to do except raid and the raids were such a progression leap from WOTLK that so many just stopped playing.
    The reward structure of Wotlk and Cata are pretty similiar.

    So yeah, no idea where this "Nothing to do except raids" criticism towards Cata comes from.
    That started in Wotlk, not Cata.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Odd, Legion felt like the perfect expansion for alts, since each class had a unique campaign, order hall, item sets, artifacts etc. If anything, Legion was the most alt oriented expansion to date.
    I found Legion and BFA endgame to be the absolute worst of any expansion, but legion was loads of fun in other aspects because of all the class stuff.

    BFA doesn't even have that.

    WoDs barebones was unacceptable, but what was there was at least playable/enjoyable, not an infinite arbitrary grind attached to everything.

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The reward structure of Wotlk and Cata are pretty similiar.

    So yeah, no idea where this "Nothing to do except raids" criticism towards Cata comes from.
    That started in Wotlk, not Cata.
    People often forget the reason Blizzard adds certain features is because of the very "player outcry" Blizzard is often accused of ignoring. WotLK's casual-friendly approach was a 180 from the "1% of all players entered SWP" of TBC before it. Cata's "hard dungeons" were the response to players saying WotLK was "too easy." MoP's dual pronged approach to 10- and 25M raiding was a response to Cata allowing "casual Heroic" raiders to emerge. WoD's "raid or die" mentality is because most people who stayed subbed for MoP did so because of the raids. And Legion's total 180 of WoD is a result from the dismal results their decision to listen to this part of the community had on the game. It's not all good. It's not all bad. It's mostly somewhere in the middle. But at some point during the game's near two decades of existence I think most players have an idealized version of WoW which trumps everything else in their mind. And because human beings are selfish, egotistical creatures it's natural to feel like everybody else should share this opinion. That's why these threads are silly -- it's either a bunch of people agreeing with themselves that something was great or it's the same group of people questioning why other people don't think the same way.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    -snip-
    Honestly, most of your post only some touching points at best with what i'm saying.

    It seems more like a Meta opinion on this thread as a whole, rather than a specific respone to my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    MoP's dual pronged approach to 10- and 25M raiding was a response to Cata allowing "casual Heroic" raiders to emerge.
    Cata and MoP used the same raid structure, besides the addition of Flex in SoO.
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    WoD's "raid or die" mentality is because most people who stayed subbed for MoP did so because of the raids.
    No, it's just that raids were only thing that could be considered "finished" in WoD.

    The "raid or die" mentality has been a thing since Wotlk, because raids were the only thing to gear your character in the endgame post 5man dungeons, besides the catchup via a new vendor in a patch.
    And said catchup was there to prepare you to enter raiding.

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Honestly, most of your post only some touching points at best with what i'm saying.

    It seems more like a Meta opinion on this thread as a whole, rather than a specific respone to my post.
    It's more of a commentary on the idea that the "original sin" of the game being "too focused on raiding" happened in any given expansion is one which is at odds with reality. WoW has, at its core, always been about raiding. It's the one thing which really sets it apart from every other game out there. It's what set it apart in Classic, it's what helped it maintain its uniqueness in TBC and it was the central focus of the expansions which followed it. I think whenever a player becomes disengaged with WoW, they naturally feel like they're being prodded into raiding because most of the game's reward structures intentionally point in this direction -- thus, I feel like this isn't so much a criticism as much as it is evidence that a player became disengaged with an expansion's content at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Cata and MoP used the same raid structure, besides the addition of Flex in SoO.
    While true, MoP doubled down on the dual raid size hierarchy which began in Cata after Blizzard's decision of item level parity between 10 and 25M nearly eliminated 25M raiding from existence. Blizzard spent the better part of MoP trying to move players back into 25M raiding (see: TFing) and after failing to do so, compromised on 20M Mythic in WoD. However, since most of the 10M Heroic raiders did not successfully transition into 20M guilds in WoD, I think most of them simply stopped playing contributing to the now-infamous subscriber drop-off after WoD's launch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, it's just that raids were only thing that could be considered "finished" in WoD.
    I'm sure there was more content planned for WoD but once the developers realized the massive mistake they'd made with the way content rolled out in this expansion they were forced to go back to the drawing board and begin working on Legion almost immediately.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2020-08-03 at 07:36 PM.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I feel like this isn't so much a criticism as much as it is evidence that a player became disengaged with an expansion's content at this point.
    You're not wrong in the conclusion that raiding generally was the endgame in WoW, however i think the concept of it being the sole source of endgame loot crystallized during Wotlk.

    In Classic, you first had to level to 60 in the first place, that was months, then you had to exhaust every dungeon, Reputation (though ignoring Ranking and WSG / AB factions here) and outdoor activity in order to reach a point where raiding was necessary to gear your character.

    A casual player simply did not exhaust all of in this within a few months, partially because everything in Classic took longer.

    In TBC, Reputation became more central, heroics were added (alongside a badge vendor), Professions were massive time sink with powerful, Arena / PvP also provided "casual friendly" mechanics to upgrade your character.

    You could get your character quite far in TBC without ever stepping into a raid.

    In Wotlk, they started to streamlined it.
    Most Reputation loot was equal / worse than heroic loot, heroics and badges also no longer provided loot that was at least in some cases equivalent / superior to raid loot.
    On top of that, professions also got nuked, no longer was there a super powerful BoP Item from professions, most of it was at best equivalent to raiding and you only had a handful of pieces to choose from.

    The game also becoming more fastpaced just increased the speed at which people geared their characters.

    In Wotlk, it was very easy to reach the point of "i have to raid to upgrade my character", something that took more casual players months in Classic or TBC.

    That's why i say:
    Wotlk was without a doubt the start of the "Raid or die" mentality, the fact that Blizzard in the same vein also made raiding more accessible speaks to this.

    Why people suddenly use Cata, MoP or WoD in that context is beyond me, those just continued the path set by Wotlk but were not the perpetrators.

    But i agree with the notion that a lot aren't that objective in their judgement and work off their personal experience "when the game started to suck" while throwing in some buzzwords to scapegoat.
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    While true, MoP doubled down on the dual raid size hierarchy which began in Cata after Blizzard's decision of item level parity between 10 and 25M nearly eliminated 25M raiding from existence. Blizzard spent the better part of MoP trying to move players back into 25M raiding (see: TFing)
    Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that they didn't really alter anything between Cata and MoP, besides adding Thunderforging.

    The lesson that the game mode which awards equivalent loot but requires less people tends to cannibalize the other modes is a lesson the devs should have learned during that time (looking at you, M+).

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    While true, MoP doubled down on the dual raid size hierarchy which began in Cata after Blizzard's decision of item level parity between 10 and 25M nearly eliminated 25M raiding from existence. Blizzard spent the better part of MoP trying to move players back into 25M raiding (see: TFing) and after failing to do so, compromised on 20M Mythic in WoD. However, since most of the 10M Heroic raiders did not successfully transition into 20M guilds in WoD, I think most of them simply stopped playing contributing to the now-infamous subscriber drop-off after WoD's launch.
    Because it's a failed idea to force such large group together. If giving more rewards don't work then problem is elsewhere.
    20 man isn't a compromise, it's retardness pretty much killed raiding.

    Realistically speaking you don't have more than 5-7 closer friends in game. So 20 mans are filled a smaller group of friends not always liking each other, that eventually makes chasms, issues and either rotating squad or guilds falling aparat.

    And yes there are tons of people who liked 10M and refuse to play with 20. They are either gone or just playing casually.
    Yet another idea that blizz hoped people will "step up" and people just "stepped out" instead.

  10. #850
    For me, personally, WoD was better than BfA. I played WoD from start to finish, enjoyed most of the raids, 5mans were ok. I didn't like the garry, so i personally didn't really do much with them. I didnt enjoy it, so i just didnt do it. Did i miss out on hundreds of thousands of gold? Without a doubt. Did it allow me to focus on the thinngs i did enjoy? Yup.

    BfA was the first expansion i unsubbed from purely because i didnt enjoy it; no other game dragging me away, no real life drama, just flat out didnt enjoy it.

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