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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    oh im struggling, im struggling really bad, 24s are painfully easy for me,
    Ok .. this is obviously one of 'those' threads... I also feel sorry for Jeff Bezos and how much he is struggling.

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

  2. #22
    The solution to the problem of social anxiety requires therapy or medication. You will not find either of those here.

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...t/drc-20353567
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    That's a myth. No one builds a group to push +16s and end up playing +26s with the same group months later. If you want to achieve anything, you have to go out there and pug a lot (regardless of whether you are also playing with a premade group at the same time). Sticking to a fixed premade group will only lead to a quick and easy way to plateau in a rather low score bracket.

    The comfort of a premade group is not needed (and is actually harmful) until you reach +24/+25 level keys. You're much better off going out there and actively learning from all the people (of your score bracket) you meet in pug groups. To reach these key levels, you do not need some insane group cohesion, but rather a lot of straightforward dungeon/strat/route/class knowledge.
    You completely missed the point. It's not a myth. It's a fact. PUGs over +15 are rife with toxicity and elitism where people have no self-awareness when they make mistakes. It's always the fault of <RandomOtherPUGPerson>.

  4. #24
    OP, the fact that you got as far as you have in this feature that I don't partake in but frequently preach is "not intended to be PUG'ed" at ANY level... makes me rethink that maybe I'm missing out on something and should try some keys in shadowlands! Well done!

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by joebob42 View Post
    You completely missed the point. It's not a myth. It's a fact. PUGs over +15 are rife with toxicity and elitism where people have no self-awareness when they make mistakes. It's always the fault of <RandomOtherPUGPerson>.
    Well, I guess we just have different end goals in mind.
    - If your goal is to have fun doing M+ in a safe social environment, that indeed requires guild and friends. But that will substantially hinder your ability to reach higher keys (unless your guild is Limit, Pieces, or the like).
    - If your goal is to challenge yourself by reaching the highest keys you can mechanically handle, for fun, then you need to pug a lot. (You can make a premade with people you meet in pugs, but these premades generally do not survive long unless you're already doing at least +24s and up). If you take the path of pugging, that means you're ultra-competitive and you're pugging content with other ultra-competitive players. Some of these players are frustrated by not getting enough progress out of their time investment, and some of them also measure a person's worth by what level keys that person currently plays... So if you have lower score than them - you're not worthy, and if you have higher score - you're boosted. So you ought to see some toxicity or elitism here and there, but not too often. And when you do: (1) you don't have to act the same and answer back to them, (2) remember that you're here to challenge yourself, not find a safe social space... so it should be easy for you to brush aside any toxicity and carry on to the next pug group.

    The OP is firmly on the second track right now, so suggesting them to play with guild&friends amounts to suggesting that the OP takes a break. I suppose that's a valid option as well, it's a good time to take a break.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Ok .. this is obviously one of 'those' threads... I also feel sorry for Jeff Bezos and how much he is struggling.
    I wrote about the same in another topic recently. It is a valid complaint about the BfA dungeon design. Somehow healer DPS (and utility usage) is far more important than the actual healing. This is just further exacerbated in case of OP who focuses on healing over doing DPS for safety (that's common for pug healers in a couple of keys, I can relate), and who does not get to use the resto druid utility because of insufficient communication.

    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    In BfA healing is often less intense in higher keys because that's when groups start to do more optimal pulls and learn to avoid the avoidable damage (there are of course huge exceptions, such as tyrannical Temple boss fights). The overall incoming damage still scales up exponentially, and nothing helps us mitigate the increased damage, but groups have everything planned and under control, so healing becomes seamless. It usually has nothing to do with healer though - it's more dependent on tank doing good pulls and on DPS players controlling all dangerous casts. So the healer can focus on dealing damage more if they trust the group. In comparison, low key pugs are usually full of fiesta, and healers need to out-heal a lot of avoidable damage every other pull.

    It actually felt quite different in Legion: dungeons had a lot of unavoidable damage throughout the run (trash included). So healing was always very intense, even in very high keys. That's the reason healing DPS meta was not prominent. Yes, holy paladins could always do insane damage (and that was important in some very limited parts of the dungeons, such as the necessity to burst the Mana Devourer in Upper Karazhan on tyrannical 24/25+ keys -- holy paladin's damage in the 30 sec burst window on Mana Devourer was very often higher than the burst damage of actual DPS classes, even crazier than it has ever been in BfA). But healers spent most of their time healing unavoidable damage, so their ability to deal damage was considered a luxury, not yet a necessity.

    As someone who mostly plays healer specs, the above is the reason I consider Legion M+ much better. In Legion, healing was a full-fledged, hard role. All the way up to +26 tyrannical keys, every time I progressed 2-3 key levels up, I ran into a boss that forced me to rethink how I heal (going from "I can yolo it" attitude, to actually understanding every little detail about how boss timings interact with my spec and abilities). In contrast, in BfA healing has become a rather passive mini-DPS&support role, requiring little to none healing expertise (with some exceptions, as usual). And this design change goes hand-in-hand with Blizzard fixing the much touted Legion "one shot" meta.
    Last edited by ID811717; 2020-07-16 at 07:46 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Ok .. this is obviously one of 'those' threads... I also feel sorry for Jeff Bezos and how much he is struggling.
    Yeah, this kind of feels like it's just badly camouflaged flexing going on here

  7. #27
    Try not to get offended by toxic comments, don't take them to heart. It's easy for people to be toxic in the game since it's all characters on the screen, but most wouldn't say the same things face to face.

    Just keep going doing the same thing, 4.4k pugging is pretty good and shows that you're capable of going higher. Add people you like to play with (like that rogue) to your btag friends, and soon enough, you'll build a group of people in your btag friends and start getting whispers from them to join their keys.

  8. #28
    flexing? i can see how to people who do not try very hard but want the rio it may seem like im flexing my score but seriously to me my rio is embarrassing for how much i have played and how high i know i can go based on legion world 15

    In legion there wasnt much comms needed in the high end bracket there was a routine in every key pretty much

    1) have 20% avoidance
    2) know when to use defensive/iskars trinket etc
    3) if there is difficult trash know your role in the dk mass grip > aoe stun > warlock slow ring > vortex knockback

    The difficult part was making sure not to take silly damage to knock your neck shield off (similar to resounding protection now)

    I just went a junkyard with a mage who refused to use blazing barrier, apparently me pumping 100kdps as healer is not as important as me spam healing him through whatever fail damage he took, this is the stuff that makes me want to unsub, these guys are 4k+.... 23s are free! i need good players to play with to get further

  9. #29
    I am Murloc! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    My advice would be to attempt to leave your comfort zone and communicate to the party if there is a problem or they are misinterpreting your actions. If this social anxiety is actively impacting your every day life, in and out of the game, seek a specialist that can give you advice on how to improve your situation.

    People can get careless and indifferent in pugs, and that surely does not help. But you cannot expect everyone to know about the issue you struggle with, in particular people that you see 30 mins to 1 hour and then never again, and especially if the problem cannot be expressed through chat.

    I have had people stay completely silent in my M+ runs and that's fine. I have had people not responding to messages addressed to them and that comes off as rude. I have had people not responding and doing consistent mistakes and that's a run breaker.
    I get that the situation is not easy for you, but others would have no way to know about it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ONCHEhap View Post
    I know that's easier said than done,but one thing that really helped me is to realise that pugs are irrelevant and you'll never see again given how WoW works nowadays,so you don't have to fear consequences if you defend yourself and talk back to them. I'm not encouraging you to be toxic of course,just trying to make you feel less afraid to talk,you can absolutely be more assertive without being an asshole.

    More specifically,you should usually just consider DPS as dead meat,since they're both the most easily replacable members of your group,and almost always the least skilled and the most toxic,as well as prone to use healers or tanks as scapegoats for their own failure. It gets easier when you're talking to tools compared to talking to humans
    When you are running 25 and up you run into a lot of the same people and need to stay on good terms with at least a few, for more than just the good of that run. Trying to find a few set groups to run with is ideal at this point and realistically if somebody is good enough to run these should have groups wanting them to come along unless there is a major issue beyond just game play.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    As someone who doesn't understand social anxiety, can you explain to me what your fear is? Would you feel more comfortable if you were playing with a group of friends? I understand that a guild might be tough for you because that's a lot of new people around you but what about a small group of new friends that were patient and willing to work with you? Also, do you play Horde or Alliance because my friends and I are always looking for a healer for our M+ runs.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Ok .. this is obviously one of 'those' threads... I also feel sorry for Jeff Bezos and how much he is struggling.
    Just know you are closer to being a millionaire than jeff bezos

  13. #33
    make you bed everyday, spend 20-30minutes a day thinking about how straight your spine is, it's all good)
    you are one of us, not a an outcast
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  14. #34
    I find the game much more enjoyable when playing with friends (and/or guildmates) than random people, and would highly recommend you try it. Playing with the same people consistently might also help with your social anxiety.

    But yes, it is an MMO, and you are doing a group activity. Being social (at least a little) is part of the game (even if it isn't necessary for anything but the high-end).

  15. #35
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    Have you tried joining some of the voice coms and just using the old excuse "my mic is broken"? Hearing people talk with each other might help you tackle your social anxiety.

    What region and faction are you playing?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    Thanks for this, you hit the nail on the head really, when i type what i think to help the party i fear it is nearly always taken out of context like text can be, especially in such a toxic world like wow, its not that im confrontational im just making the point about things and people often i feel take it as an attack or a callout of them not being good enough.
    I agree to the one which you Quoted, make a few "Hello", and "Thanks for the run" macros. If you do a good job, people will Recognize that, and you should get a full Friendlist with decent players. The QuickJoin makes it easy to see if they run something and have a spot for you open.

    I dont really know how social anxiety works out and affects people, but I think maybe you get more comfortable around people if you play with them more.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    As someone who doesn't understand social anxiety, can you explain to me what your fear is? Would you feel more comfortable if you were playing with a group of friends? I understand that a guild might be tough for you because that's a lot of new people around you but what about a small group of new friends that were patient and willing to work with you? Also, do you play Horde or Alliance because my friends and I are always looking for a healer for our M+ runs.
    They might be embarrassed about their voice? I was almost deaf as a young child and have a fairly strange accent as an adult now, so I don't like talking on voice comms a tremendous amount.

    I can think of plenty of reasons why someone might not want to talk in modern WoW though

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    Stop being pathetic, problem solved
    That's an extremely callous way of thinking. Why be a jerk? What were you trying to gain here?

  19. #39
    Sadly, the majority of the PUG playerbase is extremely toxic. Even if you put things properly, a lot of people dont care. Numbers are lower than they think they should be? Kick.

    Your best bet is to find a group of players you want to play with. Join a guild and post your looking for a static 5 man for M+. Social skills only develop over time using them. There are also great reads you can find to help bridge the gap as well.

    However, I don't think your problem is communication. I think the problem is the state of the PUG crowd over the past few years. Toxic trash.

  20. #40
    Blademaster badmdog's Avatar
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    Try rerolling a DPS char. You wont get into higher pugs then 15/16.... But i feel you, i make my own PUGS with my key. I see alot of high end key runners failing on simple mechanics. They blame everyone accept them selfs...

    If your on EU - Horde, i would play with yah <3

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