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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    They have said since day one you can change your choice but
    It will take some effort.
    Apparently as of now, dropping a covenant is easy but respeccing to it is hard. But the covenant you leave keeps your valor cap (renown) progression in case you swap back.

    So nobody's going to be locked into a bad ability if a patch makes it bad.

  2. #62
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB8 View Post
    I wonder the % of mythic players, casual players, roleplayer and ocasionally online peeps.

    Cause I have the feeling that almost everything Blizzards gives to its players must be changed just for a 10-20% of the playerbase.

    Just a feeling. Dont know any numbers.
    High end raiding is an incredibly small % of players and always has been that’s the whole reason they made lfr as other wise making Raid content wasn’t worth the time for how few players did it.

  3. #63
    This was a terrible 'interview'. TLDR Summary: Preach just shutup and let Ion talk.....

    At times, Preach wanders off into a a ~3-5minute rambling monologue..... just stop and let the fucking WoW designer do the talking.

  4. #64
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Apparently as of now, dropping a covenant is easy but respeccing to it is hard. But the covenant you leave keeps your valor cap (renown) progression in case you swap back.

    So nobody's going to be locked into a bad ability if a patch makes it bad.
    Ah if that’s the case then this becomes a complete non issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    This was a terrible 'interview'. TLDR Summary: Preach just shutup and let Ion talk.....

    At times, Preach wanders off into a a ~3-5minute rambling monologue..... just stop and let the fucking WoW designer do the talking.
    He lives up to the name of nothing else.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    This was a terrible 'interview'. TLDR Summary: Preach just shutup and let Ion talk.....

    At times, Preach wanders off into a a ~3-5minute rambling monologue..... just stop and let the fucking WoW designer do the talking.
    It wasn't an interview, it was a debate. Preach said as much and Ion called it a conversation as well. This should absolutely be the gold standard for communicating.

  6. #66
    Man this was pretty good, he actually pressured Ion.

    Tired of dumbshit with shills(like Taliesin) with questions like "whats your favorite maw set?? OH MY GOD THEY ALL SO GUUUD".

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    It wasn't an interview, it was a debate. Preach said as much and Ion called it a conversation as well. This should absolutely be the gold standard for communicating.
    Yup, because Ion actually had to straight up say that they made mistakes and they were fools and he also has to articulate WHY a design decision is made as opposed to what we'll gain from their design decision.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    Man this was pretty good, he actually pressured Ion.

    Tired of dumbshit with shills(like Taliesin) with questions like "whats your favorite maw set?? OH MY GOD THEY ALL SO GUUUD".
    You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by JustaRandomReindeer View Post
    Such a terrible interviewer. I agree with Ion 100% and they should keep covenants as they are.
    Why because he didnt coddle him? Why do you agree with Ion when every single system they added not only didnt work that way but didnt work the way they wanted.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Yup, because Ion actually had to straight up say that they made mistakes and they were fools and he also has to articulate WHY a design decision is made as opposed to what we'll gain from their design decision.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
    Ya I know, not expecting the shills to actually pressure blizz. Just saying I'm glad this wasn't garbage like that.

  10. #70
    Brewmaster Tiev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Yup, because Ion actually had to straight up say that they made mistakes and they were fools and he also has to articulate WHY a design decision is made as opposed to what we'll gain from their design decision.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
    The hand that feeds him is the hand of his viewers. His viewers want the real questions. If he becomes a muted company-man he is no longer Preach and loses his niche as a content creator.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiev View Post
    The hand that feeds him is the hand of his viewers. His viewers want the real questions. If he becomes a muted company-man he is no longer Preach and loses his niche as a content creator.
    He's talking about Taliesin.

  12. #72
    Brewmaster Tiev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    He's talking about Taliesin.
    Oh, fair enough.

  13. #73
    Blizzard, to players: This is how you play our game

    Players, to Blizzard: Yeah okay how about no?

    Blizzard, to players (louder this time): THIS IS HOW YOU PLAY OUR GAME

    Honestly, while I understand the ideas they're trying to convey here I just cannot see this panning out the way they envision. This system will have all the inherent issues that Covenants had and players will still try to circumvent the restrictions Blizzard put in place to make things easier for them. It's not like this is even a new idea. (Think back to Heroic Nef and the 10 Druid cheese strat.) They've already committed to "let gear be gear," I don't understand this obsession they have with systems that are incongruent with player behavioral patterns. The biggest irony here is that they're doing all of this under the illusion of "player agency" while simultaneously just making it worse. I think Blizzard needs to stop trying to reprogram the mentality of their playerbase and just go back to a system similar to what we had in MoP. Bring back reforging. Make professions give some amount of player power. Give players buttons to press.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Luckily they have said recently that they are sticking to the idea of scrapping it if it fails, but they are arguing that because they haven't tuned it yet it hasn't failed. Which is true but most of the fanbase believes they will fail.
    MMO-Champ posters being most of the fan base ?
    Forum discussions are almost completely worthless to developers. It is a bunch of uninformed idiotic users screaming their untested crappy ass ideas over everyone else. Real data comes from studying what people do in game, how they react to changes, etc.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinkie View Post
    And that's why those people are jokes. Just like people think only the MDI top tier comp meta is the only way they can clear their +15 each week.
    People will always choose the easiest way to do things. It's why most people will use Method or Limit's strat instead of making their own.
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  16. #76
    I'm fine with them making the choice of covenant semi-permanent if they seriously balance the options to the point where you can solve the same problem in 4 different ways with whatever button you chose.

    Anything less than that will just create a situation where players are compelled to grind up alts if they want to PVP, raid, and do mythic+ all on their main class. We saw how meaningful choices worked with legendaries and Azerite. As it turned out, everyone at every level of play went for whatever was BIS.

  17. #77
    The most basic form of thinking of Shadowlands is one of the two:

    1 -- Shadowlands = A match of Warzone that lasts for 2 years and no one gets to buy a loadout. (think about it)
    2 -- This is the MOST anti-meta expansion to date and it will ultimately decide how the game is designed from now on.

    (I'm not saying whether that's good or bad. You make up your own mind based on what you want out of the game.)

  18. #78
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
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    Red face

    Still trying to convince themselves... there, there By the way, I hope this isn't true, they aren't crazy and are aware of what exactly they're doing

    You're forgetting one simple thing, it isn't the very fact of "obligatory choice", the one you liked to talk about lately, but its misplacing in the system. If you compare it with classes, then this choice should take place within class system, if with talents then within talent system, and so on. Whether you're appealing to old "choice" system or new one "options" isn't important, but it shouldn't be tied to any "expansion" progress systems (gear, reputation, etc) and obey same rules. This is the only way for system to remain functional and convenient, otherwise it will look something like this and no matter how long and with what words you'll try to convince yourself in opposite...
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-07-20 at 01:17 PM.

  19. #79
    Oh boys my covenant ability did 4.8% of my total damage and my friend's covenant ability did 5.0%. GG UNSUB STUPID GAME.

    Please stop.

  20. #80
    Locking a choice as preach said has never been like this. As preach pointed out, the abilities of covenants are not a sub class, each ability does not have an equal niche. The current system does not enhance or enable the idea that there is value in being a necrolord dk vs a kyrian dk. Each covenant ability is not unique or comparable, how does an ability that just pulls people and do damage for a dk compares to a strength amp or runic power generation which synthesizes with the actual class. As preach continued to point out the consequence, which is what is the ideal blizz wants to make, is not equal for everyone. If someone does not care about their performance, the consequence is meaningless. Whereas someone who just wants to have the best tools so they feel prepared the system has massive consequences. If someone wants to change specs the system has massive consequences. If someone wants to try to perform the best in different types of content(which they should be able to its a mmo) the system has massive consequences. This system does not enable a choice where you decide how you want to play the game, its too minuscule and generalized and the pieces are locked into set bundles. The ideal of diversity of subspecing and the ideal of consequence may be able to be achieved, but it will not happen through this system in my eyes. Massive respect to Ion for doing this though. Shadowlands still looks great and can't wait to play.

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