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  1. #1

    The "coming soon" talent ...

    You know that the talent "hidden in the shadows" in the subtlety spec will disappoint you, right?
    Or is there any chance that we have a better talent than Gloomblade or Weaponmaster?

    And one more question: ... does anyone use the talent "Shuriken Tornado"? For a talent (lvl 50 in shadowlnads) I find it quite meh ...

    I would really like at least 2 times for each expansion, Blizzard would let us vote for 1 talent to become base-line and one talent to be deleted.
    This would be very useful for that talent that almost 100% of the player-base did not monopolize the level he is at.
    And at the same time that stupid talent that was a bad idea for someone ... (and that is occupying a precious place) could be replaced by something cool.
    That was an outburst.
    Sorry about some "english-mystake"
    EDIT: Oh .. I almost forgot to say ...
    If I could vote for one talent to be base-line and another deleted:
    In sub spec:
    Base-line: Subterfuge.
    Deleted: Shuriken Tornado (or Night Terrors).
    Last edited by Fantazma; 2020-07-18 at 10:10 PM.

  2. #2
    It always warms my heart to see Rogues who still believe that Subtlety will ever be useful again. Such undying optimism in the face of blatant developer disregard is simply adorable. Not anywhere near reality, of course, but why stop the dreamers from dreaming?

    Real talk: Sub is locked in the cycle of "why would we fix this, nobody plays Sub." -> "why would I play Sub, they'll never fix this." -> "why would we fix this, nobody plays Sub." -> ...

    They'll come up with some half-assed talent that won't make a dent in performance. Why? Because they have no idea where to take Sub.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Ujio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Why? Because they have no idea where to take Sub.
    They should take it back to before they ruined it at the end of WoD.
    (ง ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)ง ᴛʜɪs ɪs ᴏᴜʀ ᴛᴏwɴ sᴄʀᴜʙ (ง ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)ง - (ง •̀_•́)ง ʏᴇᴀʜ ʙᴇᴀᴛ ɪᴛ! (ง •̀_•́)ง

  4. #4
    I really can’t understand why they felt the need to mess with classes at the end of WoD. No one asked for this.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ujio View Post
    They should take it back to before they ruined it at the end of WoD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdhammer View Post
    I really can’t understand why they felt the need to mess with classes at the end of WoD. No one asked for this.
    They should definitely just revert to how it was before they turned it into absolute garbage at the end of WoD / Legion prepatch -- an infinitely better design than this dumbed down Legion trash designed to hide all of its glaring mechanical flaws behind "ooh look at the purple particles!!11 #classfantasy"
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    They should definitely just revert to how it was before they turned it into absolute garbage at the end of WoD / Legion prepatch -- an infinitely better design than this dumbed down Legion trash designed to hide all of its glaring mechanical flaws behind "ooh look at the purple particles!!11 #classfantasy"
    I'm a casual PVP player (I only got 2000 raiting in Legion because I really wanted the elite set in the photo on the side) ... but what I really like is playing a good and fun casual Battle Ground.
    So just like you, I always see it in a PVP view.
    And I agree that when all the purple things appeared it was visually interesting (I almost had a heart attack when I saw the visual effect and the audio of the "shuriken storm" in Legion) ... but the spec really got weaker and less competitive.

    Frankly, I doubt that one day a blue post will go public and say, "Hey, we're reverting the rogue sub back to exactly what it was like in WOD."
    However, let me tell you something:

    I'm in my second marriage. When my first wife died I thought I would never be happy in a relationship again because everything I loved about a person had died along with my wife.
    A few years later, I met a girl totally different from my first wife and I married her. Why? Because although they are very different I found that I was happier than I was in my first marriage.
    I think I went too deep to use an example ... haha ​​... but what I'm trying to say is that I believe that the old subtytle will never come back but I believe that in the place of the garbage we have today a very good sub rogue can also appear ( and full of purple things..haha).

    Hope does not die:
    We still have a talent to know (I'm not optimistic but who knows?)....
    We still have the covenants ...(which will have several upgrades and changes during the expansion)
    We still have the conduits ...(which will have several upgrades and changes during the expansion)
    And... most important... We still have to play SL ... and learn how SnD, FW, Rupture (much stronger than NB) and the new Poisons are interacting with the gameplay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And look at this:
    Pikaboo seems happy with subtlety in Shadowlands:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnZ-Lyxas4&t=345s

    Last edited by Fantazma; 2020-07-20 at 12:01 AM.

  7. #7
    They haven't touched rogues in months those 2 coming soon talents have been coming soon for months. They nerfed crimson vial, pickpocket is supposed to buff it somehow (sounds like a pretty terrible design.) but again never put in for months no legendaries no conduits no changes. They normally ignore rogues in beta's/alpha's but not normally this hard.
    Last edited by fear; 2020-07-20 at 01:10 AM.

  8. #8
    High Overlord literallysame's Avatar
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    Honestly instead of trying to fix current sub they should just turn sub into a stealth archer kind of like a dark ranger.

  9. #9
    Lol every class has been ignored unless you are a warrior/druid/warlock. Relax lmao. It's not only rogues who don't have leggos. Monks don't have them either because the ones they do have are getting changed. Its literally July 20th. And the game is coming sometime in November (most likely). That's literally 3-4 months to put in a fucking talent that you're just gonna bitch about regardless. Sub has its place. Its amazing in pvp. Do I wish it was great in PvE? Of course. But it's like all the rogues on here complain so much for what lol. Rogues have and will always have their place in anything you do. And because people bitch and moan on mmo. It turns off people even more to playing them. So furthermore securing your raid spots.

    I just don't get it, you pvp? Sub, one of the best pvp spec's in the fucking game. You want to do massive AoE? Outlaw. You want an all around spec that competes? Assassination.

    Bunch of whiny babies.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2020-07-20 at 07:19 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotles View Post
    Lol every class has been ignored unless you are a warrior/druid/warlock. Relax lmao. It's not only rogues who don't have leggos. Monks don't have them either because the ones they do have are getting changed. Its literally July 20th. And the game is coming sometime in November (most likely). That's literally 3-4 months to put in a fucking talent that you're just gonna bitch about regardless. Sub has its place. Its amazing in pvp. Do I wish it was great in PvE? Of course. But it's like all the rogues on here complain so much for what lol. Rogues have and will always have their place in anything you do. And because people bitch and moan on mmo. It turns off people even more to playing them. So furthermore securing your raid spots.

    I just don't get it, you pvp? Sub, one of the best pvp spec's in the fucking game. You want to do massive AoE? Outlaw. You want an all around spec that competes? Assassination.

    Bunch of whiny babies.

    Infracted.
    There's this amazing line drawn by Preach and its posse while talking about Shadowpriests.

    Shadowpriests do humongous amounts of damage. By all intents and purposes they perform amazingly. But they feel miserable to play, and this is an issue because people in the cutting edge wouldn't want to miss on all that damage, and would ultimately feel forced to play Spriest despite it not being fun.

    Rogues have a pretty die hard base. People will always play Rogue because it's one of the biggest fantasies in any given RPG. But Sub being strong (or rather Shadowy Duel and the combat bug Whaaz loves exploiting) has little to do with how the class could be at its peak.

    Reducing choices is not healthy for the game, and this goes for every spec and every class in the current landscape.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotles View Post
    Lol every class has been ignored unless you are a warrior/druid/warlock. Relax lmao. It's not only rogues who don't have leggos. Monks don't have them either because the ones they do have are getting changed. Its literally July 20th. And the game is coming sometime in November (most likely). That's literally 3-4 months to put in a fucking talent that you're just gonna bitch about regardless. Sub has its place. Its amazing in pvp. Do I wish it was great in PvE? Of course. But it's like all the rogues on here complain so much for what lol. Rogues have and will always have their place in anything you do. And because people bitch and moan on mmo. It turns off people even more to playing them. So furthermore securing your raid spots.

    I just don't get it, you pvp? Sub, one of the best pvp spec's in the fucking game. You want to do massive AoE? Outlaw. You want an all around spec that competes? Assassination.

    Bunch of whiny babies.

    Infracted.

    Friend, it is clear that if we look for some videos of god-players like Pikaboo playing with a Subtlety Rogue we will have the impression that the spec is great in the PVP and nothing needs to be changed or added.
    But genius like Pikaboo are 0.001% of the rogue player-base and they are an exception.
    Nowadays (and since Legion) even if you love the "gamestyle" or "class-fantasy" of the rogue sub we need to be a little bit of a masochist to play with the spec in the most varied types of PVP.
    Today (for 99% of players) and compared to other classes ... sub rogue has little burst, little mobility, little CCs, little survival. It is exactly the opposite of the glory days of WOD or CATA ...!
    This is a fact!
    However (like any fool) I still carry some hope that there will be better days. As I already said in other topics (and I agree with you in this part) we still have 3 or 4 months for a lot of news ... and something good (or very good) may happen in the very near future ...!

  12. #12
    They should do a real flavour thing with sub, like they did with Survival. Either half ranged, half melee or using 2h would be pretty interesting.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotles View Post
    Lol every class has been ignored unless you are a warrior/druid/warlock. Relax lmao. It's not only rogues who don't have leggos. Monks don't have them either because the ones they do have are getting changed. Its literally July 20th. And the game is coming sometime in November (most likely). That's literally 3-4 months to put in a fucking talent that you're just gonna bitch about regardless. Sub has its place. Its amazing in pvp. Do I wish it was great in PvE? Of course. But it's like all the rogues on here complain so much for what lol. Rogues have and will always have their place in anything you do. And because people bitch and moan on mmo. It turns off people even more to playing them. So furthermore securing your raid spots.

    I just don't get it, you pvp? Sub, one of the best pvp spec's in the fucking game. You want to do massive AoE? Outlaw. You want an all around spec that competes? Assassination.

    Bunch of whiny babies.

    Infracted.
    You are so delusional thank you for the wish btw.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    They should do a real flavour thing with sub, like they did with Survival. Either half ranged, half melee or using 2h would be pretty interesting.
    I agree 100% with you and I will say something unpopular that I have already said on other occasions .... I really like the "shadow class fantasy" of the current rogue subtlety and I only regret the fact that "shadow class fantasy" came along with all the nerfs that the spec had.

    The fault of today's bad subtlety rogue is not the concept of class-fantasy, but the bad decisions that came with it.

    Having explained this (and talking about "flavors") I would love to see a talent or new skill that would turn Sub-Rogue into a fully enveloped being in the shadows and increase various abilities.

    You must be thinking of the Shadow-Priest ....! haha .. Ok, it would be almost that but with an even more dark and different visual effect (for plagiarism not to be so evident..hahaha)

    My dream:
    "Embrace the Shadows" PVP talent:
    You totally unite with your shadow and receive the following benefits:
    - Shadowstrike and Cheap shot now generate 6 secs of free Slice and Dice and you will also teleport behind the target in the first Shadowstrike in Shadow Dance.
    - Out of combat you move 100% faster. (like worgens)
    - 0.5 secs after you apply Backstab and Shadowstrike you will summon 2 shadow clones that will repeat the skill applying 5% of the last hit in shadow damage.

    As simple as that ... something like this would make me the happiest rogue in Shadowlands.
    Last edited by Fantazma; 2020-07-20 at 03:50 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantazma View Post
    I'm a casual PVP player (I only got 2000 raiting in Legion because I really wanted the elite set in the photo on the side) ... but what I really like is playing a good and fun casual Battle Ground.
    So just like you, I always see it in a PVP view.
    And I agree that when all the purple things appeared it was visually interesting (I almost had a heart attack when I saw the visual effect and the audio of the "shuriken storm" in Legion) ... but the spec really got weaker and less competitive.

    Frankly, I doubt that one day a blue post will go public and say, "Hey, we're reverting the rogue sub back to exactly what it was like in WOD."
    However, let me tell you something:

    I'm in my second marriage. When my first wife died I thought I would never be happy in a relationship again because everything I loved about a person had died along with my wife.
    A few years later, I met a girl totally different from my first wife and I married her. Why? Because although they are very different I found that I was happier than I was in my first marriage.
    I think I went too deep to use an example ... haha ​​... but what I'm trying to say is that I believe that the old subtytle will never come back but I believe that in the place of the garbage we have today a very good sub rogue can also appear ( and full of purple things..haha).

    Hope does not die:
    We still have a talent to know (I'm not optimistic but who knows?)....
    We still have the covenants ...(which will have several upgrades and changes during the expansion)
    We still have the conduits ...(which will have several upgrades and changes during the expansion)
    And... most important... We still have to play SL ... and learn how SnD, FW, Rupture (much stronger than NB) and the new Poisons are interacting with the gameplay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And look at this:
    Pikaboo seems happy with subtlety in Shadowlands:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnZ-Lyxas4&t=345s

    Savage dude.

    I'm gonna pour one out for your dead wife.

  16. #16
    Prepatch hitting ptr and talents still "coming soon" what a joke.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by fear View Post
    Prepatch hitting ptr and talents still "coming soon" what a joke.


    Its just a prepatch its still good, its still good!

    Rogue will get some minor changes one day suddenly out of the blue before but close to the last minute. Just have to wait and hope its somewhat interesting
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  18. #18
    Assa Rogue still has 'Shiv' twice. Once as a baseline ability and once as a PvP talent. Different energy costs, different effects, same name. I'm half expecting it to go live like that...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Todesbote View Post
    Assa Rogue still has 'Shiv' twice. Once as a baseline ability and once as a PvP talent. Different energy costs, different effects, same name. I'm half expecting it to go live like that...
    *sings* Youuuuu only shiv twice
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Dunno why some people got such a boner to be just a lowly peon-adventurer.

  20. #20
    High Overlord Bearded Sith's Avatar
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    Not gonna lie, starting to get concerned. Rogues are not ready for launch. They're still fun (I'm picking up Rogue for the first time in almost a decade), but the covenant abilities are half-trash with only one really shining as a winner (Necrolords). With a new patch hitting yesterday, that doesn't give me hope for a lot of testing time with a completed Rogue class. Which really concerns me.

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