Turns out $600 extra Unemployment does NOT stop people from going back to work.

[Antiganon]

Just putting this out there as someone who has dealt with this from multiple angles.

I was essential when this started. IT tech for a military/aerospace manufacturer. Then airlines tanked (and with them, our orders). Then the layoffs started.

I was laid off on 4/17/2020. I filed for unemployment the same day. Due to an error with the paperwork printed by my employer, where unpaid holiday hours were broken out on my copy, but included with gross wages on the documents provided to the state, I received ZERO unployment for the first 6 weeks I was out. Luckily I had my tax return as a cushion, but many people didn't.

Since then, I have been looking for jobs in my field. Available to me are independent contractor positions with no guarantee of hours or pay, temp-to-hire positions through headhunters I have no experience with, military positions I'm not qualified for because I've never held a security clearance, and a few state and local public positions (school IT, DMV IT, state OMB IT) that were quickly filled.

Outside the IT realm, the majority of positions I could apply for are basic minimum wage part time retail. I could easily get one of those positions, but it would not pay enough to cover even just state unemployment, let alone the federal benefits (which have just expired). Even assuming I got a full time minimum wage job, It would BARELY exceed my state unemployment earnings, and would not give me enough money to pay for the childcare I would need to go back to work.

Before all this, I was averaging around $30/hour when you factor in quarterly bonuses and overtime.

Believe me, I want to go back to fixing computers and being well paid to do so. I don't want to homeschool my kids, a task I am completely unprepared for. I don't want to sit at home all day while my wife goes to work and tries not to resent me for making more money to sit on my ass than she does working her ass off. I don't want to explain to my kids that I am home all the time because I have no job, which means we have less money, which means we might not be able to pay the mortgage on our new house that we worked so hard to get.

All of this sucks. The federal government sweetening unemployment to the point where I can pay my bills is the bare minimum they can do considering how colossally mismanaged this crisis was, and that if not for their failures, I might still have my job.

[Rasulis]

These people are in obamacare so no cobra just $800 a week.

ACA enrollment went up during the pandemic. However, the number is nowhere near to the number of the newly unemployed. Meanwhile, the current administration is actively trying to dismantle the program.

[Zan15]

The $600 per week is more than they made prior to unemployment plus their unemployment benefits, why go back to a shitty part time job making $300 a week when you can make $800 a week sitting at home?

Why would a farmer grow crops, normally when they can receive anywhere up to 250,000 per person (husband + wife 500k) for not growing them or growing them and letting them rot? and this has been going on for decades, but now its a problem because the republican party does not want to help a whole segment of the population because...reasons?

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Shit that's almost as much as I make and I've been working full time through the entire pandemic in a hospital with covid patients in the hospital. I'm not a nurse or doctor so don't even qualify for hazard pay.

and how much of your health insurance is paid for by your employer? 40% 50? 60%?
How much does your employer match on your 401k?
Pension?
Discounted life insurance?
Social security contributions?
Vacation time accrual?
etc
etc

the 600 was never meant to only be a salary replacement.
It was also on top of paying for missing benefits also act as a stimulus to the economy. Do you see much improvement since that passed? 31 million people out of work does not sound like things are improving.

- - - Updated - - -

ACA enrollment went up during the pandemic. However, the number is nowhere near to the number of the newly unemployed. Meanwhile, the current administration is actively trying to dismantle the program.

Because the administration refused all request and funding for education for the newly unemployed.
they refused to enact emergency open enrollment.

Most people don't even realize they can get it

- - - Updated - - -

The $600 per week is more than they made prior to unemployment plus their unemployment benefits, why go back to a shitty part time job making $300 a week when you can make $800 a week sitting at home?

Oh and btw you might want to go back to the first page and read what was posted again.

it shows that the vast majority of people going back to work, were making more money "just sitting at home"....Your whole premise is based on a lie and "feelings".

just like welfare queen myth buying lobsters and driving 60k BMW's.

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These people are in obamacare so no cobra just $800 a week.

Ding Ding wrong answer. ACA does not mean Free.

Ding ding wrong answer, You can choose to keep Cobra because the benefits are better and there are various advantages to keep your health insurance active just in case you do go back to work so you don't have to wait for open enrollment.

Based on ACA enrollment numbers most people who could choose, stayed with Cobra (mostly because the Trump administration refused to allow the ACA to open enrollment up and fund education during the pandemic on the unemployed ability to get ACA).

Why would you go on ACA when the current administration is at the SCoTUS fighting to end it? You can't just jump back into COBRA after you refuse it you know (you probably don't know you don't seem to educated yourself about anything before posting)


Take your example and wander over to:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52481756

Based on your assumption of $800 a week, depending on state, you wouldn't have a whole lot of subsidies unless you were in the top 5 income states. but then the rates for the plans in those states would most likely offset the increased subsidies anyway.


But hey take away the extra 600 dollars, great.

Now you have to give them Medicaid which is full insurance with no cost sharing for the individual or family.
Food stamps, 196 dollars a month for a single 400-800 for a family.
Cash assistance.
etc etc etc.

hmmm thank god you saved the country those 600 dollar payments to only pay 600 dollar payments in benefits.

[Felya]

These people are in obamacare so no cobra just $800 a week.

What? No, I am paying for my GF’s cobra right now. The difference between ACA and COBRA was less than 50$ per month, but she would have lost the copay. What 800 per week?

[Orange Joe]

Uh... I'm not a conservative and the place I work is finding it almost impossible to hire part time employees because of the over the top unemployment benefits currently being given out.

Where do you work and what is the starting wage.


(where as in what "trade")

[Zan15]

Where do you work and what is the starting wage.


(where as in what "trade")

my bet is fantasy land....cause most likely his story is made up


data already shows that most people going back to work were making more money on unemployment but went back to work anyway.

[Orange Joe]

my bet is fantasy land....cause most likely his story is made up


data already shows that most people going back to work were making more money on unemployment but went back to work anyway.

I was one of those people. For sure work for years > temp high wages that are going to stop.

[Zan15]

whelp what a cluster fuck this GOP plan is. No wonder they had to cut unemployment they have a lot of money to give businesses and corporations!!!

Where do we start, sigh

https://www.axios.com/mcconnell-repu...9a119b22b.html
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...committee.html

200 dollars because, well even though they knew this weeks ago, states cannot handle the change quickly. imagine having to pull the salary data on a few million workers and making sure its accurate and then applying it appropriately. then dealing with appeals, phone calls, etc etc...



The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES) Act provides an additional
payment of $600 per week to individuals receiving unemployment insurance (UI) benefits
through July of 2020. This provision would continue supplemental payments of $200 per week
for weeks of unemployment through September. Starting in October, this payment would be
replaced with a payment (up to $500) that, when combined with the state UI payment, would
replace 70 percent of lost wages—either via a formula specified in the bill or by a state
proposing an alternative method and receiving approval from the Secretary. States that are
unable to provide a second payment tied to lost wages by October 5 could apply for a waiver
from the Department of Labor to continue paying a fixed dollar amount for up to two months.

Part 2
So some states can put off paying anything but 200 till DECEMBER.. cough red states...cough

Then they have to waste money by sending letters reminding people of what they were told when they apply. That they have to look for a job and keep looking.
millions out the door.

Well at least it gives them 2 billion of the 20-30 billion they need to upgrade their systems...

Part 3

While they are reducing the amounts individuals get, they are increasing the amounts companies and corporations get in tax credits by 300%.


Also increasing The work opportunity tax credit (WOTC) provides an elective tax credit to employers hiring individuals who are in one or more of ten targeted groups.
Increased for employers from 40% for first 6k to 50% for first 10k

Part 4
Safe and healthy workplace tax credit: Our tax dollars pay for huge profitable corporations to make it safe for their workers.

500 x $1000 + 500 x 750 + (all employees over 1,000 x $500)
So amazon has 800,000 employees and they will get over $400 million ... not a year....BUT A QUARTER! Amazon will get $1.6 billion dollar tax credit for providing what they already provide as part of running a business.
Napkin math, Walmart will get 4.5 billion dollars


In each calendar quarter, qualified expenses cannot exceed a cap based on the average number of employees. The cap is equal to $1,000 for each of the first 500
employees, plus $750 for each employee between 500 and 1000, plus $500 for each employee that exceeds 1,000.

[arandomuser]

has anyone ever discussed a UBI type system possibly forcing employers to raise wages and people will work for them because they still rather make more money even if they have just enough money to survive off of?

[Antiganon]

has anyone ever discussed a UBI type system possibly forcing employers to raise wages and people will work for them because they still rather make more money even if they have just enough money to survive off of?

I'd prefer a UBI system that provides enough money for everyone to survive on, to EVERYONE, and eliminate the minimum wage.

[Toppy]

...

Part 4
Safe and healthy workplace tax credit: Our tax dollars pay for huge profitable corporations to make it safe for their workers.

500 x $1000 + 500 x 750 + (all employees over 1,000 x $500)
So amazon has 800,000 employees and they will get over $400 million ... not a year....BUT A QUARTER! Amazon will get $1.6 billion dollar tax credit for providing what they already provide as part of running a business.
Napkin math, Walmart will get 4.5 billion dollars


In each calendar quarter, qualified expenses cannot exceed a cap based on the average number of employees. The cap is equal to $1,000 for each of the first 500
employees, plus $750 for each employee between 500 and 1000, plus $500 for each employee that exceeds 1,000.

Speaking in regards to Wal-mart

During the coronovirus outbreak they rolled out their "Greater Worldplace" which they try to hype up as great but in reality is quiet bad for people.

It cut multiple middle management positions, so, wide spread demotion. Massive cutting of salaried positions as well, they were made hourly if they were salaried.
Wide spread hours cut company wide.
Normal bonuses have been down massively due to razor thin margins.
So when they talk big about those bonuses that associates are getting? 1. Due to cut hours, demotions, and normal bonuses going down, it doesnt even approach making up for what was lost. 2. Its a half bonus for part timers, which is what walmart tends to prefer.

It talks big about required masks and heightened safety, but they give managment no power to actually enforce this and associates know it. So many walmarts are full of associates not wearing masks or not covering their noses and theres nothing anyone can do about it. Infact managers are heavily encouraged to not do anything about it so people dont call out. Likewise they just gave a general hand waved "Make sure to clean more" but at the same time will come down on managers and associates HARD for not maintaining normal operations despite how many people are quitting and being sick, so there is SUBSTANTIALLY LESS cleaning going on due to their own policies.

As a side note they made a big deal about Thanksgiving for associates, that stores will be closed.

Let me tell you what they did for Christmas when the stores was closed and associates got a "Day off".

They FORCED associates to use their severely limited time off for Christmas, and still had everyone work 5 days that week anyway. Which I imagine will be happening for Thanksgiving.

[Milchshake]

Seung Min Kim Reporting..

Meadows said Pelosi and Schumer had two big demands in their meeting today — keeping the expanded unemployment benefit at $600/week and $915 billion in state and local aid. Dems, per Meadows, indicated that the UI was a red line for them, not necessarily the state and local aid.

So the the GOP will fold and people still get the $600. Thanks Nancy!


Just think, very online leftists were willing to settle for 400-200 a few pages up.

Dont listen to those people. They dont really have much of a clue. And are just plain bad at politics.

[Shadowferal]

Seung Min Kim Reporting..

Meadows said Pelosi and Schumer had two big demands in their meeting today — keeping the expanded unemployment benefit at $600/week and $915 billion in state and local aid. Dems, per Meadows, indicated that the UI was a red line for them, not necessarily the state and local aid.

So the the GOP will fold and people still get the $600. Thanks Nancy!


Just think, very online leftists were willing to settle for 400-200 a few pages up.

Dont listen to those people. They dont really have much of a clue. And are just plain bad at politics.

Negotiating tactic. What really helps is that too many of the GOP are against McConnell.

[Monster Hunter]

Id say the past 40 years have shown conservatives to be absolutely wrong on every economic policy.

• Minimum Wage
• Top End Tax Rates
• Inheritance Tax

Id say they're just projecting their own laziness onto everyone else.

id caviat that with american conservatives.

personaly ive been very happy with the furlough scheme in the UK.

whats better than $600 a month ?

80% of my wage being paid and my company paying the last 20% because there not dicks.

and why is that better you may ask? well i have 2 things, free time, lower monthly costs due to corona and disposable income, 3 amazing things to have in abundance in an economy if you want to kick start a boom.

has it been perfect? hell no, lots of shit could have been done better in hind sight, but ill happily take disrealian one-nation conservativism over thatchers New Right – Neo-liberalism & Neo-conservatism or the other schools like Paternalism or Authoritarian conservatism.

to be open in my opinon you're real root issue with trump is the same as the root issue with corbyn economy wise, there both lost in the past, though on different political wings of the past. but both seem to forget our economy's arnt manufactoring economys any more and havent been for a very long time, we are consumer economy's.

[Felya]

to be open in my opinon you're real root issue with trump is the same as the root issue with corbyn economy wise, there both lost in the past, though on different political wings of the past. but both seem to forget our economy's arnt manufactoring economys any more and havent been for a very long time, we are consumer economy's.

Is Corbyn a real estate mogul, whose hotel and golf property is directly impacted by lockdowns required in containing the virus?

[Zan15]

Seung Min Kim Reporting..

Meadows said Pelosi and Schumer had two big demands in their meeting today — keeping the expanded unemployment benefit at $600/week and $915 billion in state and local aid. Dems, per Meadows, indicated that the UI was a red line for them, not necessarily the state and local aid.

So the the GOP will fold and people still get the $600. Thanks Nancy!

Just think, very online leftists were willing to settle for 400-200 a few pages up.

Dont listen to those people. They dont really have much of a clue. And are just plain bad at politics.

Meh my bet still is 600 will never happen, if it does happen it will have the 70% limit attached to it which will basically drop that number significantly for over 70% of the unemployed.

no one btw was settling i can see, they were taking their guess on what was going to happen. you have an odd view of settling.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Wow imagine that, an entire party lying about unemployment benefits preventing people from going back to work.

Besides the fact the law says if you refuse to go back to work you lose the benefits or if you are not caught right away you have to pay it back with huge penalties and interest later.

Here we now have a study of the insanity of this lie and the logic at which the republican party is trying to prevent extra unemployment benefits for those most at need (the poor).

While i believe there should be a max up to your max pre unemployment pay, the point of this was to replace pay, help pay for healthcare and stimulate the economy with extra money. The fallacy from the republican party was that this was just unemployment pay.


https://money.yahoo.com/extra-600-in...182827326.html

One big reason critics don’t want to extend the coronavirus unemployment benefits is they’re worried the extra $600 per week will keep Americans from returning to work.

But that’s far from the case, according to a new analysis of workers who made more while unemployed.

Seven in 10 workers who returned to a job in June were making more on unemployment insurance than their previous wages, according to an analysis of the Current Population Survey from Ernie Tedeschi, an economist at Evercore ISI and a former Treasury economist in the Obama administration. Around 65% of those who went back to work in May also took in more from unemployment, he found.

Some Republicans and the White House have been reluctant to support extending the benefits, criticizing the additional aid as a “disincentive” to work, as White House economic advisor Larry Kudlow put it in June.

“We’re paying people not to work,” Kudlow told CNN. “It's better than their salaries would get.”

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Monday that the too-generous bonus is the No. 1 issue that needs to be fixed.


But hey fuck poor people lets just throw more money at FARMS!!!


https://www.kmaland.com/ag/grassley-...9504d0652.html
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...ailouts-359932

Direct farm aid has climbed each year of Trump’s presidency, from $11.5 billion in 2017 to more than $32 billion this year — an all-time high, with potentially far more funding still to come in 2020

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...is/5372654002/

Yep, just like all the voter fraud, and welfare fraud, and people who will use up all the medicare if you cover everyone.

Yeah it's the same typical BS to screw over the little guys.

[bowchikabow]

By the way.. The reason those people returned to work was because their employer was probably smart and informed them that, if they were called upon to return to work and they adamantly refused with a documentable reason.. That employee can be reported to the state employment commission and have their unemployment yanked.

Democrats want to keep the 600 coming is because they want to cement votes... Republicans want to roll it back because, in fact, if people have the option to simply stay home and collect MORE than what they did WORKING they will.

I could understand having Unemployment being 100% of income as opposed to 80% (normal number)... but adding THAT much was ALWAYS going create this problem.

https://wgme.com/news/i-team/maine-e...rehire-workers
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-...return-to-jobs
https://www.poynter.org/reporting-ed...afe-returning/
and the token opinion piece: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...nt-ncna1234603

[Elegiac]

By the way.. The reason those people returned to work was because their employer was probably smart and informed them that, if they were called upon to return to work and they adamantly refused with a documentable reason.. That employee can be reported to the state employment commission and have their unemployment yanked.

Democrats want to keep the 600 coming is because they want to cement votes... Republicans want to roll it back because, in fact, if people have the option to simply stay home and collect MORE than what they did WORKING they will.

I could understand having Unemployment being 100% of income as opposed to 80% (normal number)... but adding THAT much was ALWAYS going create this problem.

https://wgme.com/news/i-team/maine-e...rehire-workers
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-...return-to-jobs
https://www.poynter.org/reporting-ed...afe-returning/
and the token opinion piece: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...nt-ncna1234603

Imagine posting this and coming away with any conclusion that isn't "wages are too low".

The fact people have more secure and enjoyable lifestyles on public assistance than they do as part of being compensated for their labor means labor is undervalued, by definition.

Can you people please come up with a solution that isn't something a Disney Villain would say?



Also did y'all just really fucking forget there is still a plague on and paying people to stay home is in fact a good thing?

[bowchikabow]

Imagine posting this and coming away with any conclusion that isn't "wages are too low".

The fact people have more secure and enjoyable lifestyles on public assistance than they do as part of being compensated for their labor means labor is undervalued, by definition.

Can you people please come up with a solution that isn't something a Disney Villain would say?



Also did y'all just really fucking forget there is still a plague on and paying people to stay home is in fact a good thing?

Couple things: Wages are, in large part, based on the combination of market value of a particular skill or skillset and negotiated agreement of payment between employee and employer. Flipping burgers, or working a cashier is not the same as being a sanitation worker or police officer etc... And it used to be the case that an accepted ascension was essentially: get a job as a teen/HS graduate at a fast food or delivery place (the wage was lower, but it was first job and foot in the door of job experience).. later you either went to college, joined a trade, joined the military, or created a company.. Making more money and establishing your career.

Something in happened the last 25yrs where people suddenly started thinking "I should be able to have more of the nice things while still just flipping burgers or working a cashier". Now true, inflation has been unstable and wage growth has not kept up with cost of living.. Also, as a reminder, it was a democrat who came up with the minimum wage. While well intended to be sure... the federal minimum wage basically removed a fair amount of negotiating power that the prospective employee has in determining his value as said employee. Companies can, as a result of the MW, simply decline an applicant seeking more per week in favor of an applicant who will readily take it. It is all a matter of perspective.

All that said, Paying people more than their normal paycheck is quite unnecessary... And it is check that will come due. If they had simply required unemployment to pay 100% of employees wage.. and maybe MAYBE an extra 100 to 200 for the first 90 days, that would be one thing. But upwards of 100 to 150% of a person's wage is unjustifiable imo. Not to mention, it isn't even helping the people that the dems claimed it would (and they knew that it wouldn't) because people didn't purchase from small businesses to keep them afloat.. how could they, when the government was making them close down all while allowing walmart/costco/best buy etc (the big boy businesses) to operate as usual.. AND EVEN BETTER no one in the HoR is even talking about actions against WalMart for openly stating that they will still serve customers who violate the mask protocols established in the states that have them.... But god damned if someone wants to open their shop to serve the community, and try to put some bread on the table for the family.

Businesses are making the decision on their own how to re-open their businesses.. My company is working at 50% staff, because we have limits on the number of customers we can have. As a result, not everyone gets called in and so those who don't get called can continue getting their benefits, and those who come in are getting a pay increase. Doesn't seem that hard.