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  1. #1661
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Jesus, it's actually being defended. I've really got nothing more to add to what @Syegfryed, @Feanoro and @Darth-Piekus have already said when it comes to the abduction except that I don't know how you can seriously contest that it's at least unintentional high comedy, @Aucald.

    Moving away from that, since we now know that it is that easy to abduct people, I'd like your thoughts on why Sylvanas doesn't just kill them. She's already got them in chains, why don't the Val'kyr Kyrian just bash Anduin's skull against a cliff face, for her sake and ours? It's not like anyone would see them do it or that those present have any reason to believe Sylvanas would take these tards alive, nor does she have anything to gain from doing so given her sugar daddy's mastery of the afterlife.
    Exactly what I've been asking in the cinematic thread.

  2. #1662
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post

    Moving away from that, since we now know that it is that easy to abduct people, I'd like your thoughts on why Sylvanas doesn't just kill them..
    it would be too easy, apparently she like when her plans go to shits, so she make sure to do a lot of those fails, it was make it fun i guess?


    or its part of the grand scheme of th 483d chess that we can't comprehend until patch 9.4

  3. #1663
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thats precisely the problem, convenient plot chains just like th convenient plot poison from legion, is lame
    I mean I agree the Fel poisoning in Legion was strange (as well as lame), considering it was something that had never happened from being attacked or wounded by a Legion a mook previously. I felt it should've at least had some kind of explanation, even a visual one like a Fel Guard with a unique-looking weapon or glowing Fel effect we hadn't seen before (even if he just dipped it into a nearby Fel pool or something). But that's not the same deal with the chains, whose power we saw several months ago when Sylvanas defeated Bolvar. We know what they're capable of, and so it's neither super plot-convenient nor inexplicable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    how they are not breakable? bolvar did broke by tearing then with his mace, but those ones are even more powerful someway somehow? and you can't see hos this plot convenience is lame?
    Sure, the Lich King broke them - a very powerful entity with his own Death-oriented skillset. They also instantly reformed and continued to keep him ensnared, which makes it something of a meaningless distinction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Did you just conveniently forgot that shamans can control the winds too? you know control the very place the monsters are coming up? blst their ass off with lightning? they literally saw then flying at then and they can't do shit bout just get chained and say bye?
    I somehow doubt those clouds were normal, and further would answer to a Shaman's call. I also don't think a sudden windstorm is really going to bother powerful Mawsworn Val'kyr, either; they're not birds after all. Based on Anduin's abduction they likely also only had a few seconds to respond to the sudden threat, and most people would probably be temporarily flummoxed by an unexpected attack from unknown beings materializing unexpectedly from a sudden cloud mass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Light not being effective against Death Magic? don't you think you are rying to hard excuse blizzard in this one?
    Perhaps if he'd had time to react, sure. But again, he only managed to draw his sword before being ensnared. You argument is akin to complaining about not being able to get a spell before before another player CC's you in PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    those are not absurd beings of imense power they are just minions, using death power(tht you said it would make sense to not be used here when they made the shadowlands spells locked, remember? )
    Presumably they're powerful named Mawsworn to be directly in service of Sylvanas (the Jailer's current second), and especially to be tasked with such a mission. Not that that matters overly, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    if it was that easy to kidnap leaders why we didn't before? this is dumbing down the story and you are trying to excuse this, thrall at least was fighting against the alliance army, it was not easy, he probably went to easy on thn to not spark any more blood, he is always soft like this, but against those enemies? nonsensical
    As I said before, they have. Thrall, Baine, Vol'jin, Jaina, and many other faction leaders have been imprisoned or captured in the past. This isn't an act without precedent of some kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    they didn't restored instantly, she keep shooting then, then she put more magic when he was weak, he at least put a fight, unlike the others
    Watch the cinematic again - the chains reform from arrows already present, and before Sylvanas herself reappears from her concealing smoke shroud.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    ah yes the plot convenience, Tyrande who could not dealt with Nathanos with that exceeding power, can take those absurd otherworldly godly beings

    Guess Nathanos is more powerful than those mawsworms with those plot chains that can even do a breakfest

    Like i said, its bad, if they had put a fight or had like 20 of those things i would not say a thing, but this is nonsensical.
    I assume Tyrande is only growing in power, especially given now that we know that the power will eventually consume her. This is likely meant to be an indicator of that rising power, especially in light of the fact that she is apparently killing Nathanos soon enough when the Scourge event starts in the pre-patch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Jesus, it's actually being defended.
    I don't know about "defended," per se; I'm just saying it's fine as a cutscene. Not one of the best ones, but not really one of the worst either as that turkey still belongs to the final cutscene of 8.3 concerning the death of N'Zoth, at least in my view (with second place going to WoD's final cutscene). I'm more or less explaining how and why the abduction is possible, and why it isn't really inexplicable or unrealistic based on what we already know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Moving away from that, since we now know that it is that easy to abduct people, I'd like your thoughts on why Sylvanas doesn't just kill them. She's already got them in chains, why don't the Val'kyr Kyrian just bash Anduin's skull against a cliff face, for her sake and ours? It's not like anyone would see them do it or that those present have any reason to believe Sylvanas would take these tards alive, nor does she have anything to gain from doing so given her sugar daddy's mastery of the afterlife.
    Presumably because the Jailer wants them and/or has plans for them of some kind. From a Doylist standpoint I think we all know it's primarily because they're not supposed to die en masse, something that's never happened in WoW to this point - that and we already know their rescue is a part of the storyline of Torghast, so no one really ought to be surprised here either. From the Watsonian standpoint, I imagine this is all something of an echo of the Lich King's original plan to draw the champions of Azeroth to him to make them his generals, the Jailer probably has similar ideas - torture the leaders of Azeroth into subserviance and make them his powerful generals, then pit them against us for the fun of it. It's a story yet to be told, in other words. Probably would be a better idea to kill them all, but then if WoW's villains were perfect planners we'd all already be dead and the game kind of over.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  4. #1664
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Presumably because the Jailer wants them and/or has plans for them of some kind. From a Doylist standpoint I think we all know it's primarily because they're not supposed to die en masse, something that's never happened in WoW to this point - that and we already know their rescue is a part of the storyline of Torghast, so no one really ought to be surprised here either. From the Watsonian standpoint, I imagine this is all something of an echo of the Lich King's original plan to draw the champions of Azeroth to him to make them his generals, the Jailer probably has similar ideas - torture the leaders of Azeroth into subserviance and make them his powerful generals, then pit them against us for the fun of it. It's a story yet to be told, in other words. Probably would be a better idea to kill them all, but then if WoW's villains were perfect planners we'd all already be dead and the game kind of over.
    Oh, no, the Doylist reasoning is obvious, I'm talking about it being a transparent plot contrivance. Killing them would allow him to do the same thing, given that torturing souls into working for him is the whole thing he's using the Maw for in the first place and murder will ensure that there's no chance they can come back. Villains being perfect isn't needed, but the story badly wants to escape from the skillset they gave the enemy. This goes beyond basic stupidity to writing yourself out of a hole you wrote yourself into in the first place.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  5. #1665
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Does anyone know if those Mawsworn angels tried to abduct Alleria and/or Vereesa as well? I imagine Sylvanas, in her insanity, would love to torture her sisters in the Maw.
    No, mawsworn angels read the script and abducted only the main characters. Also Alleria suddenly changed her mind about going after Sylvanas and decided to stay with Turalyon in Stormwind Keep.
    Last edited by BaumanKing; 2020-10-15 at 12:21 PM.

  6. #1666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Oh, no, the Doylist reasoning is obvious, I'm just wondering if you're on hand to contrive any explanation for it, since surely killing them would allow him to do the same thing, given that torturing souls into working for him is the whole thing he's using the Maw for in the first place and murder will ensure that there's no chance they can come back. Villains being perfect isn't needed, but the story badly wants to escape from the skillset they gave the enemy.
    All depends on what he actually wants. Killing them could reduce their power and/or cause other effects he wishes to avoid (e.g. the expenditure of giving them new physical forms), or has a chance of something interfering with them arriving at the Maw as per the current norm. Again, I find a lot of this be effectively whining over a story yet to be told. If it's *not* told then I'd join the chorus myself, but I'd argue that it needs the time to actually *be* told before I come to that point. All this is just set-up, really; and since I already knew what was going to be happen more or less (due to knowing the Shadowlands intro scenario) I guess I'm just not flummoxed here. This is all more "oh, that's how they're doing it" and less "faction leaders could never be captured, omgwtfbbq." They were already captured in terms of the story we all know, so this is just the missing operand in a known equation.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  7. #1667
    A question about the art book. If Bolvar kept the Jailer at bay because he got barbecued by red dragons, WTF allowed Arthas to do so? Also, if Maldraxxus was the answer to Shadowland's defense the First Ones are fucking idiots.


    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The way Anduin was abducted was absolutely fucking hilarious. I took the piss out of Sylvanas loyalists nabbing them away in bags like bank robbers, but two dudes popping out of the clouds, snapping him up and fleeing is basically that with the added benefit of Genn yelling at clouds.

    The fact that Bolvar's speech is 100% content-free platitudes because of Sylvanas's incomprehensible characterization is also great and so is him hailing Acherus like a taxi.

    Amazing, would watch again and have already done so.
    Yeah, top notch cinematic. Of the ironically funny variety.


    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Moving away from that, since we now know that it is that easy to abduct people, I'd like your thoughts on why Sylvanas doesn't just kill them. She's already got them in chains, why don't the Val'kyr Kyrian just bash Anduin's skull against a cliff face, for her sake and ours? It's not like anyone would see them do it or that those present have any reason to believe Sylvanas would take these tards alive, nor does she have anything to gain from doing so given her sugar daddy's mastery of the afterlife.
    I don't see how the difficulty of the abduction has to do with anything, really. It could have taken the sacrifice of 20 Teldrassils for each kidnapping and keeping them alive would still be pointless. The moment they got captured they already fulfilled their purpose and their existence ceased to be relevant to the Jailer's plans. They're just bait (because a giant hole in the sky doesn't motivate people enough) and they don't need to be alive for the bait to function. If anything, seeing the bait dead would likely break the spirits of the people trying to rescue them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
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    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  8. #1668
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    All depends on what he actually wants. Killing them could reduce their power and/or cause other effects he wishes to avoid (e.g. the expenditure of giving them new physical forms), or has a chance of something interfering with them arriving at the Maw as per the current norm. Again, I find a lot of this be effectively whining over a story yet to be told. If it's *not* told then I'd join the chorus myself, but I'd argue that it needs the time to actually *be* told before I come to that point. All this is just set-up, really; and since I already knew what was going to be happen more or less (due to knowing the Shadowlands intro scenario) I guess I'm just not flummoxed here. This is all more "oh, that's how they're doing it" and less "faction leaders could never be captured, omgwtfbbq." They were already captured in terms of the story we all know, so this is just the missing operand in a known equation.
    Like they clarified Azerite and why it was so incredibly weak, despite being pure titan blood? This is here is just another perfect example of their typical shallow story direction

  9. #1669
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Like they clarified Azerite and why it was so incredibly weak, despite being pure titan blood? This is here is just another perfect example of their typical shallow story direction
    When did they clarify Azerite as "incredibly weak?" And what exactly is shallow about the story direction in this sense?
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  10. #1670
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    When did they clarify Azerite as "incredibly weak?"
    They never clarified Azerite as weak, because it is, despite being Titan blood three vials of that stuff is enough to create things like the current well of eternity, horde and Alliance harvested tons of that stuff and slapped it on bullets, swords and used it as fuel that was extremely fast depleted for whatever reason.

    So in essence they never clarified why Azerite was this weak stuff, despite the fact that a handfull of the stuff should be enough to level entire cities with ease.

    And what exactly is shallow about the story direction in this sense?
    It is the easiest route they could have taken, showing how utterly helpless people are before the new enemy, in combination with their attempt to rile up emotions with Greymanes pained howling into the night sky, not to mention charcoal man and his great dread over the years that the screecher was even worse than he thought.

  11. #1671
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Presumably because the Jailer wants them and/or has plans for them of some kind. From a Doylist standpoint I think we all know it's primarily because they're not supposed to die en masse, something that's never happened in WoW to this point - that and we already know their rescue is a part of the storyline of Torghast, so no one really ought to be surprised here either. From the Watsonian standpoint, I imagine this is all something of an echo of the Lich King's original plan to draw the champions of Azeroth to him to make them his generals, the Jailer probably has similar ideas - torture the leaders of Azeroth into subserviance and make them his powerful generals, then pit them against us for the fun of it. It's a story yet to be told, in other words. Probably would be a better idea to kill them all, but then if WoW's villains were perfect planners we'd all already be dead and the game kind of over.
    What plans? They are bait. They served their purpose the moment they got abducted. They would go to the Maw when killed anyway, empowering the Jailer and his forces with their anima and then they'd get broken and made to serve even as souls. There is no Watsonian standpoint here. There's only plot contrivance because Blizzard sucks.
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  12. #1672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They never clarified Azerite as weak, because it is, despite being Titan blood three vials of that stuff is enough to create things like the current well of eternity, horde and Alliance harvested tons of that stuff and slapped it on bullets, swords and used it as fuel that was extremely fast depleted for whatever reason.

    So in essence they never clarified why Azerite was this weak stuff, despite the fact that a handfull of the stuff should be enough to level entire cities with ease.
    I don't think Azerite and the literal essence of the world-soul used to create the Well of Eternity or the Sunwell are actually the same thing at all. While Azerite is powerful on its own as a sort of power-magnifier (which is how we see it used in almost every incarnation in BfA), it's not *that* powerful and wasn't intended to be. Whatever was exuded from Azeroth in the case of Y'Shaarj's death and later on due to the stabbing from Gorribal appear to be a different substance. Perhaps this is due to the world-soul's ongoing maturation over tens of thousands of years or simply a different substance altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It is the easiest route they could have taken, showing how utterly helpless people are before the new enemy, in combination with their attempt to rile up emotions with Greymanes pained howling into the night sky, not to mention charcoal man and his great dread over the years that the screecher was even worse than he thought.
    That doesn't really help your argument. If the agents of the Maw can appear and abduct function leaders without any real difficulty, it definitely underscores their threat to us and to Azeroth well enough. What else would you require for that to be emphasized?
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  13. #1673
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    All depends on what he actually wants. Killing them could reduce their power and/or cause other effects he wishes to avoid (e.g. the expenditure of giving them new physical forms), or has a chance of something interfering with them arriving at the Maw as per the current norm. Again, I find a lot of this be effectively whining over a story yet to be told. If it's *not* told then I'd join the chorus myself, but I'd argue that it needs the time to actually *be* told before I come to that point. All this is just set-up, really; and since I already knew what was going to be happen more or less (due to knowing the Shadowlands intro scenario) I guess I'm just not flummoxed here. This is all more "oh, that's how they're doing it" and less "faction leaders could never be captured, omgwtfbbq." They were already captured in terms of the story we all know, so this is just the missing operand in a known equation.
    Oh, yeah, because this would be the first time Blizzard ever pulled such lazy garbage. God forbid one would actually look at a given author's track record when judging the quality of their writing. Especially since, like you yourself pointed out, the leaders get freed right after anyway. So why would Blizzard ever get back to that minor plot point later on? It's not whining for the sake of whining, it's people looking a spade and deciding it is indeed a spade and you going all "Imma play the devil's advocate for this spade for no reason other than being a contrarian". Can't wait for the end of Shadowlands though when the time will come for you to join the chorus though. I can already picture it totally happening in my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
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  14. #1674
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    All depends on what he actually wants. Killing them could reduce their power and/or cause other effects he wishes to avoid (e.g. the expenditure of giving them new physical forms), or has a chance of something interfering with them arriving at the Maw as per the current norm. Again, I find a lot of this be effectively whining over a story yet to be told. If it's *not* told then I'd join the chorus myself, but I'd argue that it needs the time to actually *be* told before I come to that point. All this is just set-up, really; and since I already knew what was going to be happen more or less (due to knowing the Shadowlands intro scenario) I guess I'm just not flummoxed here. This is all more "oh, that's how they're doing it" and less "faction leaders could never be captured, omgwtfbbq." They were already captured in terms of the story we all know, so this is just the missing operand in a known equation.
    We know your power in the Shadowlands is proportionate to your strength/relevance in life, so stronger souls have more anima. Unless the humiliation of being murked by a bunch of no name Not!Val'kyr sends you down several categories in that running, they should still be good to go. And this is not an issue about a story yet to be told, it's a fundamental problem of the premise. The fact that the characters were captured since Beta isn't proof of itself in it not being a nonsensical plot point, that's circular logic. The method used is stupid, but the plot point itself is stupid because the setup doesn't make sense and makes every participant look like a tard - the heroes for going around defenseless and being easily overcome by a handful of guys in seconds, the villains for not taking a move there's no reason for them not to take. Furthermore, like @Mehrunes says, we know how the story ends - they're captured so we can free them and this whole chain of events has no consequences. If the villains did what was best for them and killed them, this would not be possible so the Doylist purpose would fail, ditto if the heroes were protected. This is an archetypal Idiot Plot where every character has to be a moron for events to take place in the fashion they do.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-10-15 at 01:29 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  15. #1675
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't think Azerite and the literal essence of the world-soul used to create the Well of Eternity or the Sunwell are actually the same thing at all. While Azerite is powerful on its own as a sort of power-magnifier (which is how we see it used in almost every incarnation in BfA), it's not *that* powerful and wasn't intended to be. Whatever was exuded from Azeroth in the case of Y'Shaarj's death and later on due to the stabbing from Gorribal appear to be a different substance. Perhaps this is due to the world-soul's ongoing maturation over tens of thousands of years or simply a different substance altogether.
    It is both literally Titan blood


    That doesn't really help your argument. If the agents of the Maw can appear and abduct function leaders without any real difficulty, it definitely underscores their threat to us and to Azeroth well enough. What else would you require for that to be emphasized?
    My argument is blizz tries to sell this new threat as the greatest yet, using over the top methods to get the point across, creating this comedy piece in the process.

    It almost beats Anduins stupidity, attacking undercity and being surprised that blight is used in that battle, so that only jaina can come to bail them out.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2020-10-15 at 01:28 PM.

  16. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It is both literally Titan blood
    Doesn't mean the blood of a Titan in its embryotic form would be the same as its blood after tens of thousands of years of maturation. Perhaps the abundance of Arcane/Spirit energies were more accessible when the entity was less formed, and now those energies have been drawn more into its core or perhaps even consumed to give the nascent Titan its form. Even the form and coloration of Azerite is different than that of the Well of Eternity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    My argument is blizz tries to sell this new threat as the greatest yet, using over the top methods to get the point across, creating this comedy piece in the process.

    It almost beats Anduins stupidity, attacking undercity and being surprised that blight is used in that battle, so that only jaina can come to bail them out.
    I guess I'm not really seeing the comedy people keep referring to, nor really anything that struck me as "over the top." I mean the cutscene isn't really impressive, it's more just a connecting bit that explains how the leaders got into the Maw and why we're going to rescue them. As for Anduin, I don't think he was really surprised that Sylvanas would deploy the Blight (as he never really says that), but he is surprised she'd both kill her own troops and make the Forsaken's home completely uninhabitable for years to come in the process.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  17. #1677
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Doesn't mean the blood of a Titan in its embryotic form would be the same as its blood after tens of thousands of years of maturation. Perhaps the abundance of Arcane/Spirit energies were more accessible when the entity was less formed, and now those energies have been drawn more into its core or perhaps even consumed to give the nascent Titan its form. Even the form and coloration of Azerite is different than that of the Well of Eternity.
    Azerite comes from the very core of the world, so why should it be weaker? There is absolutely no reason for it to be heck one could even make the argument of the opposite, Azeroth is growing stronger the closer she gets to waking up, so azerite should be more potent.

    I guess I'm not really seeing the comedy people keep referring to, nor really anything that struck me as "over the top." I mean the cutscene isn't really impressive, it's more just a connecting bit that explains how the leaders got into the Maw and why we're going to rescue them.
    Over the top

    Faction leaders effortlessly being snatched
    Greymane screaming
    The narration itself about Sylvanas coming for them all now and how people should be afraid


    As for Anduin, I don't think he was really surprised that Sylvanas would deploy the Blight (as he never really says that), but he is surprised she'd both kill her own troops and make the Forsaken's home completely uninhabitable for years to come in the process.
    He brought nothing to deal with the blight, in any capacity, meaning his whole assault would have ended if it hadn't been for Jaina saving his bacon. This is pure stupidity on his part and a perfect example of blizz storytelling.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2020-10-15 at 01:52 PM.

  18. #1678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    We know your power in the Shadowlands is proportionate to your strength/relevance in life, so stronger souls have more anima. Unless the humiliation of being murked by a bunch of no name Not!Val'kyr sends you down several categories in that running, they should still be good to go. And this is not an issue about a story yet to be told, it's a fundamental problem of the premise. The fact that the characters were captured since Beta isn't proof of itself in it not being a nonsensical plot point, that's circular logic. The method used is stupid, but the plot point itself is stupid because the setup doesn't make sense and makes every participant look like a tard - the heroes for going around defenseless and being easily overcome by a handful of guys in seconds, the villains for not taking a move there's no reason for them not to take. Furthermore, like Mehrunes says, we know how the story ends - they're captured so we can free them and this whole chain of events has no consequences. If the villains did what was best for them and killed them, this would not be possible so the Doylist purpose would fail, ditto if the heroes were protected. This is an archetypal Idiot Plot where every character has to be a moron for events to take place in the fashion they do.
    I assume death extracts a toll regardless, though; and anima has be expended to return unhoused souls to a physical form - so why make the expenditure to do that when you can just abduct the targets and bring them straight to you as they are, strengths fully intact to be put to use later. I mean he's completely successful in doing that, so why go through the extra steps? Plus, you get the added bonus of implying to the rest of Azeroth: "hey, I'm powerful enough now to just take whatever and whoever I want right out from under you."

    I find the criticism cliched and overwrought - I don't recall any specific arguments like this when we knew the leaders were captured months ago, so why is it a problem now when this little connective bit? I mean, is this really the hill to die on in light of the fact that we knew they were captured? There's nothing circular about it, this is just complaining about the means not meeting your expectations for reasons that I find inarticulate at best, and base grumbling at worst. Do the Mawsworn Val'kyr need some kind of elaborate backstory to make it possible for them to abduct people? Does Sylvanas herself need to appear in every case to underscore her own threat? The point about the faction leaders walking around "defenseless" is especially silly - what, do you that they're on guard 24x7 or something in the safety of their own cities? I mean all of them appear to be in the capitols, basically doing their own thing. Baine's crossing a bridge in Thunder Bluff, and Anduin is visiting his father's memorial in the safety of Stormwind - it's obvious they don't expect winged foes to come out of nowhere and ensnare them in seconds (and who really would). There's nothing idiotic about it, really. The only real point of complaint here is that they weren't afforded the chance to put up a fight (except for Tyrande), but then that's also the point of the manner of their abduction. If the Mawsworn Val'kyr gave them a moment to fight the outcomes might've been very different, but it was a lightning attack meant to take them off guard, and it was entirely successful.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  19. #1679
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    But that's not the same deal with the chains, whose power we saw several months ago when Sylvanas defeated Bolvar. We know what they're capable of, and so it's neither super plot-convenient nor inexplicable.
    the chains didn't defeat bolvar, in fact bolvar broke a lot of those, so again, no, the chains are not that much powerful, they are actually easy to break, so those ones are apparently even more powerful that can silence and do what they wish

    Sure, the Lich King broke them - a very powerful entity with his own Death-oriented skillset. They also instantly reformed and continued to keep him ensnared, which makes it something of a meaningless distinction.
    apparently this LK is weaker than Arthas, so not a problem here, besides, he didn't break with his own death-oriented skillset, he literally broke thn with his hammer, no death skillset, just raw strength, you are telling me a tauren or Anduin ith the light power can't do that?

    I somehow doubt those clouds were normal, and further would answer to a Shaman's call. I also don't think a sudden windstorm is really going to bother powerful Mawsworn Val'kyr, either; they're not birds after all. Based on Anduin's abduction they likely also only had a few seconds to respond to the sudden threat, and most people would probably be temporarily flummoxed by an unexpected attack from unknown beings materializing unexpectedly from a sudden cloud mass.
    1- you don't call the clouds you can the air itself
    2- those are not "powerful mawsworn" those are mere mobs that we will by the dozens, they are not abnormal powerful to be so much angerous, thats why i said you would need like 20 to make more believeble.
    3- they literally say the skies darkening they saw shit was coming to then, unless they are morons

    Perhaps if he'd had time to react, sure. But again, he only managed to draw his sword before being ensnared. You argument is akin to complaining about not being able to get a spell before before another player CC's you in PvP.
    he saw then comming and he had time to take out his sword, is enough time tor eact unless he was a dipshit, once again he is a light user, burst a explosion of light from itself and broke the chains like anyone would do

    and pls, no with the chains of silence

    Presumably they're powerful named Mawsworn to be directly in service of Sylvanas (the Jailer's current second), and especially to be tasked with such a mission. Not that that matters overly, really.

    but they enver showed that, they are random mobs fishing people., like i said, lame


    As I said before, they have. Thrall, Baine, Vol'jin, Jaina, and many other faction leaders have been imprisoned or captured in the past. This isn't an act without precedent of some kind.
    just because they were imprisoned in the past don't mean you can give a free pass to this ridiculous imprisonment, the imprison before had good reasons, or it made sense, the problem is never then being imprisoned, like you are trying to make it is, the problem is how stupid and pathetic it was

    Watch the cinematic again - the chains reform from arrows already present, and before Sylvanas herself reappears from her concealing smoke shroud.
    they didn't reform instantly.

    I assume Tyrande is only growing in power, especially given now that we know that the power will eventually consume her. This is likely meant to be an indicator of that rising power, especially in light of the fact that she is apparently killing Nathanos soon enough when the Scourge event starts in the pre-patch.
    ah yes, more plot convient to explain more plot-holes, everyone just keep becoming strong when its needed

    sometimes you just sit down read everything slowly and no matte how you spin it you now you are staring at a dumpster

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I guess I'm not really seeing the comedy people keep referring to.


    its top comedy cinematic

  20. #1680
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Azerite comes from the very core of the world, so why should it be weaker? There is absolutely no reason for it to be heck one could even make the argument of the opposite, Azeroth is growing stronger the closer she gets to waking up.
    As the Titan gets older and stronger, it becomes comparatively difficult for that power to be bled from her? I mean you can take your pick as to why - but it was evident when Azerite itself was introduced to the story. It was very obviously not in the Well of Eternity class of powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Over the top

    Faction leaders effortlessly being snatched
    Greymane screaming
    The narration itself about Sylvanas coming for them all now and how people should be afraid
    We've been over the faction leaders being kidnapped thing, so I guess just agree to disagree. As for Greymane screaming, I don't really get the memeification of this - I mean he's pissed off, and he has every right to be? What's over the top about that? If you were unofficially standing guard over your liege and someone just yanked them up and away without preamble you'd probably be pissed off as well. I agree Bolvar's speech is kind of hammy, but it's also pretty much par for the course for WoW, all the way back to Medivh's proclamations back in WC3. It's suspense theater Warcraft-style, and if *that* is still surprising then I'm not really sure what to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    He brought nothing to deal with the blight, in any capacity, meaning his whole assault would have ended if it hadn't been for Jaina saving his bacon. This is pure stupidity on his part and a perfect example of blizz storytelling.
    Prior to Jaina freezing the Blight (itself something of a revelation), there is nothing to really deal with the Blight aside from gas masks. He likely didn't think Sylvanas would deploy it on her own home turf, as stated above - but I'd agree he probably should've had masks on hand to at least cover the possibility. Of course I don't know if that's technology the Alliance really has, though; as we never really see them field gas masks in any other engagement either. I imagine those masks aren't your normal kind of technology, and the means and method of their manufacture is probably a secret of the Forsaken and/or the Horde.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

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