SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Super Dickmann]

Considering Nathanos personality in life, I am certain he was quite vindictive, once he had a higher rank than most of his former peers it was payback time and since Lor'themar is racist, he would see a human "bullying" his peers.

Unless the rangers were absolute pussies I'm hard-pressed to believe that there wouldn't be pushback given how his presence was so tenuously suffered that he decided to live on a farmstead instead to avoid tanking Sylvanas's approval. I can totally believe he'd be a dick to Bob though, I think that's even canon that the two didn't get along at all.

[HighlordJohnstone]

Wasn't sure if it had come up before, but it seems the Brokers in Maldraxxus have snagged themselves a Darkened Naaru they plan on using in the arena at the heart of the Maldaxxus zone:

10.0 really boutta be the Light and Shadow expansion, huh?

[Combatbulter]

Unless the rangers were absolute pussies I'm hard-pressed to believe that there wouldn't be pushback given how his presence was so tenuously suffered that he decided to live on a farmstead instead to avoid tanking Sylvanas's approval.

This is just specualtion , but Nathanos living out in Lordaeron, effectively severed from the rest of the farstriders is most likely the end result of it all. Nathanos, would not have taken elves treating him like dirt in the early days and once he was their boss he would bite back with vengeance, the elves would grumble and curse him, but ultimately would have to swallow it, since he is their boss, so they turn to someone else, who will confront Nathanos on their behalf, which was most likely Lor'themar.

[Aucald]

10.0 really boutta be the Light and Shadow expansion, huh?

The odds are looking good I'd say - not a certainty yet, but a lot of signs pointing in that direction.

[Ardenaso]

This is just specualtion , but Nathanos living out in Lordaeron, effectively severed from the rest of the farstriders is most likely the end result of it all. Nathanos, would not have taken elves treating him like dirt in the early days and once he was their boss he would bite back with vengeance, the elves would grumble and curse him, but ultimately would have to swallow it, since he is their boss, so they turn to someone else, who will confront Nathanos on their behalf, which was most likely Lor'themar.

come to think of it, if Nathanos survived he would definitely join Garithos' Enforcers and he would also take delight in executing the Blood Elves

[Aucald]

I've got to say I'm a bit impressed with just how much damage the Drust invasion of Ardenweald is doing. In BfA the Drust don't seem like a large threat in Kul Tiras - sure they make some in-roads and a general mess, but it gets mopped up pretty quickly and overall is a bit of a minor subplot. In the Ardenweald the Drust are just going to town on the Vorkai, Sylvar, and Faerie populations as they ransack their groves, hoard the zone's limited anima reserves in the wake of the Drought, and mass-possessing their populations and turning them into aberrations.

[Super Dickmann]

This is just specualtion , but Nathanos living out in Lordaeron, effectively severed from the rest of the farstriders is most likely the end result of it all. Nathanos, would not have taken elves treating him like dirt in the early days and once he was their boss he would bite back with vengeance, the elves would grumble and curse him, but ultimately would have to swallow it, since he is their boss, so they turn to someone else, who will confront Nathanos on their behalf, which was most likely Lor'themar.

Yeah, I like that version, it'd fit all involved. I imagine he'd have left on his own accord since Sylvanas would not have kicked him out, per the Registry.

@Aucald

I'm glad they're getting more coverage, but I think that amounts to the Shadowlands being their home turf. They had to operate entirely through proxies back in Drustvar and on the basis of what's basically a personal vendetta that didn't advance their goals all that much.

[Skytotem]

I've got to say I'm a bit impressed with just how much damage the Drust invasion of Ardenweald is doing. In BfA the Drust don't seem like a large threat in Kul Tiras - sure they make some in-roads and a general mess, but it gets mopped up pretty quickly and overall is a bit of a minor subplot. In the Ardenweald the Drust are just going to town on the Vorkai, Sylvar, and Faerie populations as they ransack their groves, hoard the zone's limited anima reserves in the wake of the Drought, and mass-possessing their populations and turning them into aberrations.

That's good to hear, Drust have a cool aesthetic.

[Nerovar]

One thing that annoys the fuck out of me is why are there undead in afterlife? They're supposed to be dead, not undead. Body decomposition shouldn't be a thing there. The way the scourge looked on Azeroth made sense because they were corpses in various states of decay, monsters sewn together from various bodies etc. But now turns out they came from the skeleton dimension. It doesn't make fucking sense. Why is the scourge a thing in the afterlife? Why.

It doesn't make any sense especially when you consider recent quest texts that mention that you can take pretty much any form in the Shadowlands. Don't overthink it. The lore of this game is a human rights violation.

[Aucald]

That's good to hear, Drust have a cool aesthetic.

It was nice to see it again, especially the dark contrast with the rather bright and otherworldly aesthetic of the Night Fae. When I first saw the twisted "wicker" totems and the black hex-marks it was like a blast from the past.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing that annoys the fuck out of me is why are there undead in afterlife? They're supposed to be dead, not undead. Body decomposition shouldn't be a thing there. The way the scourge looked on Azeroth made sense because they were corpses in various states of decay, monsters sewn together from various bodies etc. But now turns out they came from the skeleton dimension. It doesn't make fucking sense. Why is the scourge a thing in the afterlife? Why.

The Necrolords aren't undead or Scourge, to a point. They basically have the forms they generally did in life, but also retain the damage to the forms done via incessant warring and also seem to have something of a fetish for moribund or death-themed imagery. The Necrolord constructs are made from flesh and souls, however; and substance of some kind does indeed seem to exist in the Shadowlands just as it does in the physical universe.

[bagina]

It doesn't make any sense especially when you consider recent quest texts that mention that you can take pretty much any form in the Shadowlands. Don't overthink it. The lore of this game is a human rights violation.

Of course, this is the most logical anwer.

The Necrolords aren't undead or Scourge, to a point. They basically have the forms they generally did in life, but also retain the damage to the forms done via incessant warring and also seem to have something of a fetish for moribund or death-themed imagery. The Necrolord constructs are made from flesh and souls, however; and substance of some kind does indeed seem to exist in the Shadowlands just as it does in the physical universe.

They're the scourge in all but name. I mean, no matter whatever fancy explanation Blizz throw at us it doesn't make it any less weird.

[Aucald]

They're the scourge in all but name. I mean, no matter whatever fancy explanation Blizz throw at us it doesn't make it any less weird.

They're technically what the Scourge were modeled on, in terms of the lore. Externally speaking, the aesthetic is very similar but it lacks the hive-mind of the Scourge and the figure of the Lich King. The Necrolords are basically an uneven mix of the original Orcish clans, the Forsaken, and the Scourge in terms of overall aesthetic. Their society is divided into clan-like "Houses," each with its own society and structure. The House of the Chosen, which Draka is part of in the game, is definitely reminiscent of the Orcish clans in that it favors honor and tradition. The House of Plagues is devoted to alchemy and thaumaturgy and is very Forsakenesque, although at the time of Shadowlands it has been largely destroyed due to Necrolord infighting. We don't know much about the similarly-destroyed House of Eyes, but considering many of its members were aranakk (a species similar to the nerubians) it's likely it had a strong Scourge/Nerubian aesthetic (it's where Vashj ended up). The House of Rituals seems devoted to Liches and is currently controlled by Kel'Thuzad, so it is probably the most Scourge-like of the Houses. Ditto for the House of Constructs, headed by things that resemble Abominations but are far more intelligent, more like the Mo'arg Engineers of the Legion than Scourge Abominations.

The overall look and feel of Maldraxxus also doesn't come across as very Scourge-like once you really get into it. The surface-level stuff like the architecture is similar, sure; but the people and overall feel of the zone is quite different.

[Nerovar]

They're technically what the Scourge were modeled on, in terms of the lore.

Don't you think it's a bit of a coincidence that both the real scourge and the SL scourge got their aesthetics by combining Undead themes with those of an arachnoid species? Furthermore, wasn't the original Nerubian architecture stolen from the Tol'vir? Does Maldraxxus also have Tol'vir? Did Tol'vir exist on the planet the Aranakk came from?

I mean, we're talking about Disney Star Wars levels of world building here. It's Tatooine but it's not really Tatooine. It's the Scourge but it's also not really the Scourge. Milk the aesthetics for nostalgia points and then give the viewers some shallow explanation they'll have forgotten once the movie/expansion is over.

[Aucald]

Don't you think it's a bit of a coincidence that both the real scourge and the SL scourge got their aesthetics by combining Undead themes with of an arachnoid species? Furthermore, wasn't the original Nerubian architecture stolen from the Tol'vir? Does Maldraxxus also have Tol'vir? Did Tol'vir exist on the planet the Aranakk came from?

"Undead theme" is a pretty wide-ranging concept - what exactly makes for an "undead" aesthetic? The repetition of the existing Nerubian theme is weird, I agree, but the similarity between them is actually pretty shallow. Maldraxxus has a lot more of a charnel house motif to it, with the buildings seemingly being made out of flesh and bone specifically. I was actually reminded more of the Kingdom of the Dead from Darksiders 2 than I was Icecrown Citadel or Naxxramas, to be honest - especially coupled with the Necrolords themselves. Nerubian architecture is actually unique and separate from the Tol'vir, as well; though they subsumed some ancient Tol'vir strongholds in Northrend they definitely made them their own (Azjol-Nerub and Ahn'kahet being very distinct from Tol'vir settlements in Uldum).

We don't learn much of the Aranakk in Shadowlands, or at least I haven't yet. There seems to be a few arachnoid races out in the universe, though; from the Nerubians to the Aranasi (who serve the Legion) to the Aranakk in Maldraxxus. I actually suspect the Aranakk may well be the race that became the Aranasi when the Legion turned them into demons, but that's not yet been made conclusive.

[Nerovar]

"Undead theme" is a pretty wide-ranging concept - what exactly makes for an "undead" aesthetic? The repetition of the existing Nerubian theme is weird, I agree, but the similarity between them is actually pretty shallow. Maldraxxus has a lot more of a charnel house motif to it, with the buildings seemingly being made out of flesh and bone specifically. I was actually reminded more of the Kingdom of the Dead from Darksiders 2 than I was Icecrown Citadel or Naxxramas, to be honest - especially coupled with the Necrolords themselves. Nerubian architecture is actually unique and separate from the Tol'vir, as well; though they subsumed some ancient Tol'vir strongholds in Northrend they definitely made them their own (Azjol-Nerub and Ahn'kahet being very distinct from Tol'vir settlements in Uldum).

We don't learn much of the Aranakk in Shadowlands, or at least I haven't yet. There seems to be a few arachnoid races out in the universe, though; from the Nerubians to the Aranasi (who serve the Legion) to the Aranakk in Maldraxxus. I actually suspect the Aranakk may well be the race that became the Aranasi when the Legion turned them into demons, but that's not yet been made conclusive.

How are the similarities "shallow"? The Scourge incorporated bones into their buildings since their very beginning in WC3. The architecture of Maldraxxus is pretty much a carbon copy of Scourge buildings (which wouldn't exist in this form without the cultural backstory of Nerubians claiming Tol'vir buildings which is why I brought it up in the first place) apart from their paint job. All the fungal stuff is just reminiscent of Eastern Plagueland themes (maybe the Scourge planted giant mushrooms there on purpose because they were such big fans of the Maldraxxus look™).

The Kingdom of the Dead from Darksiders 2 looks more like Revendreth/Maw material in my opinion (the buildings have a much more human, castle like look).

[Aucald]

How are the similarities "shallow"? The Scourge incorporated bones into their buildings since their very beginning in WC3. The architecture of Maldraxxus is pretty much a carbon copy of Scourge buildings (which wouldn't exist in this form without the cultural backstory of Nerubians claiming Tol'vir buildings which is why I brought it up in the first place) apart from their paint job. All the fungal stuff is just reminiscent of Eastern Plagueland themes (maybe the Scourge planted giant mushrooms there on purpose because they were such big fans of the Maldraxxus look™).

The Kingdom of the Dead from Darksiders 2 looks more like Revendreth/Maw material in my opinion (the buildings have much more human, castle like look).

"Shallow" in that the architecture is all the have in common, and even that has a number of differences as it's not really a 1:1 copy. Maldraxxus' architecture is a lot more organic in look, generally a different palette, and much cruder overall. Kind of the similar distance between the Scourge ziggurats of WC3/Classic to the look of Icecrown Citadel with its Saronite spikes and gray/blue palette. I wouldn't say they're not similar or obviously related, but they're not a carbon copy by any means.

[Daronokk]

The overall look and feel of Maldraxxus also doesn't come across as very Scourge-like once you really get into it. The surface-level stuff like the architecture is similar, sure; but the people and overall feel of the zone is quite different.

This is really stretching things. You're denying it's extremely heavily Scourge themed?

If the underlying story is very different from the Scourge then Blizzard could've removed all the needless skeleton bullshit and make a proper 'Honor' afterlife. This would give the Horde races a proper tie-in to the expansion as well because currently it feels an exclusive Alliance expansion.

[Nerovar]

"Shallow" in that the architecture is all the have in common, and even that has a number of differences as it's not really a 1:1 copy. Maldraxxus' architecture is a lot more organic in look, generally a different palette, and much cruder overall. Kind of the similar distance between the Scourge ziggurats of WC3/Classic to the look of Icecrown Citadel with its Saronite spikes and gray/blue palette. I wouldn't say they're not similar or obviously related, but they're not a carbon copy by any means.

That doesn't really address the underlying issue of the distinctly Nerubian characteristics of Scourge buildings that somehow found their way into the Shadowlands. Blizzard already said that the Scourge basically stole their architecture (among other things) from Maldraxxus so the obvious similarities shouldn't really be a point of discussion. After all, they have a God damn Necropolis which we know are of Nerubian origin.

[Verdugo]

This is really stretching things. You're denying it's extremely heavily Scourge themed?

Nah, you got it all wrong. Its the scourge that is Maldraxxus inspired. See? True big brained moment.

[Mehrunes]

What we know about his time with the Farstriders was mainly from his POV. He might have been an amazing archer, but its possible that him being an asshole and a bully was the real reason why the Farstriders aside from Sylvanas, were against him officially joining.

Except for the part where Lor'themar himself talked with Halduron about anti-human backlash (going all the way to the rulers of Quel'Thalas) in reaction to him joining the Farstriders.

Nathanos chosing to live outside the city limits in spite of being officially sworn to defend Silvermoon, sending Horde soldiers to wipe out Helf outposts to retrieve documents on himself, specifically mentioning that he enjoyed ripping out the throats of High Elves while he was Scourge, taunting his nephew before killing him and stealing his body for a ritual, and his disrespect to the player (Champion of the Horde) because his super powerful girlfriend allows him to be, all points to Nathanos being a nasty person in life instead of a victim.

The only pre-undeath thing you mentioned here was about him living outside of the city. Which he did because he was made to feel unwelcome by the Elves. And you still had to add some smear about "in spite of being officially sworn to defend Silvermoon" as if him living outside of the city made him shirk his duties, when there is absolutely squat to support that notion and it was accepted by his superior. Also, Nathanos wasn't the one to kill Stephon and he didn't know upfront what was going to happen in the Val'kyr ritual.

I mean while bigotry sure is part of it, Sylvanas also abused her position to recruit a foreigner into a national military unit and place them in a position of command. That he is a human and thus much younger than many others of equal rank just adds insult to injury.

And what evidence is there to support your claim that Sylvanas had to abuse her position to do that, rather than it being a case of her simply exercising her powers?

Unless the rangers were absolute pussies I'm hard-pressed to believe that there wouldn't be pushback given how his presence was so tenuously suffered that he decided to live on a farmstead instead to avoid tanking Sylvanas's approval. I can totally believe he'd be a dick to Bob though, I think that's even canon that the two didn't get along at all.

Bob was Sylvanas' second-in-command when she was still alive. Given Nathanos decided to live outside of Silvermoon in part because he didn't want to negatively impact public's perception of Sylvanas, I kinda doubt he'd openly be a dick to his superior in the High Elven army.