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  1. #1641
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Well you defended the writing in the past, you deserve this.
    The writing in the past was much more believable that this shit.

  2. #1642
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    The writing in the past was much more believable that this shit.
    Only because it was convenient for you. This garbage has existed for a long time, its only recently that writers like to put it under a spotlight since they love sniffing their own farts.

  3. #1643
    I disagree. Arthas was more believable. You could feel him everywhere. He always had the upper hand. Deathwing was more believable. He caused a Cataclysm by sneezing. The Legion came with an armada of battleships and millions of demons. Then you have Sylvannas bringing Valkyr like creatures that any of these powerhouse heroes can kill by the dozens. Suddenly Magical Unbeatable Shadow Chains bind them, Elements/Magic/Light doesn't work, Guards in the middle of the city conveniently absent. Powerhouses abducted like Garbage.

  4. #1644
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the fact that people are defending this as some sort of good writing is so amusing, literally 2 random mobs fishing powerful mortals like they are garbage in the river, while they don't do fucking anything about, "but the chains silence then" yeah fuck no, enough of this plot convenience garbage, i had enough with the very special fel poison taht only one mob had it.

    I mean if it was at least 20 and they fought they way trough i would keep my mouth shut, but this is too much.

    Genn yelling at the clouds was so pathetic that give me physical cringe, he was with his raised fists like a grumpy old guy, literally the only thing it came to my mind was that Harry Potter scene when his aunt is flying as a balloon and his uncle is yelling at her.

    Bolvar 100% knew sylvanas was going after him and proceed to stay completely defenseless with the exception of some shit tier zombies lying around, "fuck his 4 horseman or even any other decent DK, i can take her with just those zombies" and they want me to follow this fella into the shadowlands
    Just wait till the pre-patch event where Shaw reveals he was supposed to order guards around to protect Anduin but was too preoccupied with messing about to remember to do that then seconds later say "No I deserve to give myself some time to mess around, Anduin would understand".

    The king was taken on my watch. I should've had more agents assigned to him. This is what happens when I let my guard down. When I allow my--
    <Shaw takes a deep breath.>
    No, damn it. This was her doing. I won't blame myself for finding happiness. Anduin would be the first to tell me that.
    We're going to find him. The others, too. Whatever it takes.
    Also agree with the ridiculousness that Bolvar is spouting and he expects us to support him in Systemlands? Especially when the cinematic suggests he knew all along that the helm could be used to open a reality tearing portal at any time but didn't try to hide away or do anything to mitigate that happening. After all it's never been stated that the Lich King has to stay in Northrend and get punked by a Banshee an unspecified number of years later.
    Argus' Nightmare Continues With Shadowlands
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  5. #1645
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    I disagree. Arthas was more believable. You could feel him everywhere. He always had the upper hand. Deathwing was more believable. He caused a Cataclysm by sneezing. The Legion came with an armada of battleships and millions of demons. Then you have Sylvannas bringing Valkyr like creatures that any of these powerhouse heroes can kill by the dozens. Suddenly Magical Unbeatable Shadow Chains bind them, Elements/Magic/Light doesn't work, Guards in the middle of the city conveniently absent. Powerhouses abducted like Garbage.
    Not much you can do against a flying enemy that materializes basically out of nowhere, catches you out in the open, and can hurl animated magic-dampening/nullifying chains around you in a matter a seconds and then haul you off with them. Doesn't seem to work on Tyrande, though; as she's later shown to have defeated the Mawsworn Val'kyr that tried to abduct her and shrugged off the chains in the process. In the intro scenario in the Beta the Mawsworn seem to be a hard-counter for the various leaders as well - with them escaping and being caught over and over during the time differential.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  6. #1646
    Sorry Aucald. It's just too convenient for me to take it seriously.

  7. #1647
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Not much you can do against a flying enemy that materializes basically out of nowhere, catches you out in the open, and can hurl animated magic-dampening/nullifying chains around you in a matter a seconds and then haul you off with them
    there is lots of things you can do about it, they aren't invisible neither they materialized out of nowhere, they literally came from the clouds after some weird shit darkening the skies

    the op chains of plot convenient that negate anything, but you can broke then later, is literally bullshit, it was not believable even if they were alone, and mot of then weren't, like dear god, Isn't gra a damn shaman, why she could do something

    those dumb down to fit the narrative are sad

  8. #1648
    Does anyone know if those Mawsworn angels tried to abduct Alleria and/or Vereesa as well? I imagine Sylvanas, in her insanity, would love to torture her sisters in the Maw.

  9. #1649
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    there is lots of things you can do about it, they aren't invisible neither they materialized out of nowhere, they literally came from the clouds after some weird shit darkening the skies

    the op chains of plot convenient that negate anything, but you can broke then later, is literally bullshit, it was not believable even if they were alone, and mot of then weren't, like dear god, Isn't gra a damn shaman, why she could do something

    those dumb down to fit the narrative are sad
    They swoop down out of low cloud cover and ensnare Anduin in a matter of seconds, he has only enough time to pull his sword free before he's wrapped up and hauled off - they don't even properly land, they just ensnare him and pull him up.

    As for the chains themselves, sure, they pretty plot-convenient - but we also knew about them well ahead of time, due to Sylvanas' fight with Bolvar during which she used them to great effect to ensnare Bolvar, weaken him, and ultimately remove the Helm of Domination. So yeah, they're definitely engineered to enable the Mawsworn to take down high-value and dangerous targets like the faction leaders.

    It's not really a matter of being dumbed down or anything, they were caught in the open, by surprise, and flat-footed to boot. There wasn't time for anyone to really do much, from unsheathing a weapon to uttering a spell. It was a precision attack.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  10. #1650
    @Aucald
    People have already pointed out what's wrong, not the least of which is no capital city doesn't have air patrols. Just like everything that was ignored to allow BfA to work, they're once again merrily ignoring the rules of their own setting for their next plot. People have no problem with suspension of disbelief (before you use one of your favorite charges that obviously the critics are the problem), since we accept magic and dragons, they have a problem with rules being established then thrown out the fucking window the minute they're deemed inconvenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  11. #1651
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    People have already pointed out what's wrong, not the least of which is no capital city doesn't have air patrols. Just like everything that was ignored to allow BfA to work, they're once again merrily ignoring the rules of their own setting for their next plot. People have no problem with suspension of disbelief (before you use one of your favorite charges that obviously the critics are the problem), since we accept magic and dragons, they have a problem with rules being established then thrown out the fucking window the minute they're deemed inconvenient.
    Neither Stormwind nor Orgrimmar's air patrols are anything I'd call foolproof or impossible to evade - especially in light that there's already a precedent for that as well (e.g. the Stormwind Extraction). I think criticism is fine, as I said it is somewhat plot convenient, but it's not really beyond the pale either. Not to the level I'd call it any kind of breaking point for WoW in the general sense, nor in any sense that really justifies the level of criticism I've seen levied at it. I'm also not sure of any kind of established "rule" being thrown out the window, either - they just bided their time for an opportune moment to strike, and a literal moment is all they apparently needed.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  12. #1652
    Someone desperately needs to insert the Goofy scream into Anduin getting yoinketh'd away. Lordy.

  13. #1653
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Does anyone know if those Mawsworn angels tried to abduct Alleria and/or Vereesa as well? I imagine Sylvanas, in her insanity, would love to torture her sisters in the Maw.
    Nope like Genn and Turalyon and Talanji she also was considered unimportant enough to completely ignore.
    ...
    Yet she takes Baine...
    So I just realised something, the Mawsworn had five targets and end up only abducting 4 of them. Doesn't that throw a kink in their plans if they just ignore Tyrande after trying once?
    Argus' Nightmare Continues With Shadowlands
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  14. #1654
    hopefully we see Chief Ukorz Sandscalp as a friendly npc in echo isles! sand trolls deserve their racial leader to be friendly with them!

  15. #1655
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    Nope like Genn and Turalyon and Talanji she also was considered unimportant enough to completely ignore.
    ...
    Yet she takes Baine...
    So I just realised something, the Mawsworn had five targets and end up only abducting 4 of them. Doesn't that throw a kink in their plans if they just ignore Tyrande after trying once?
    They took out those that might actually be working for peace, at least according to Bolvar. Tyrande was a target because she interfered with Sylvanas's plans before, I guess. Talanji is not interested in peace, so she's not a target that needs converting. As soon as Bwonsamdi is out of the picture (which is still part of the plan in Shadowlands, afaik), Talanji is not important for the Jailer's plans anymore.
    And why they don't try again with Tyrande seems to be, because they only have to show her the way to Sylvanas and she goes there anyway ^^

  16. #1656
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    They swoop down out of low cloud cover and ensnare Anduin in a matter of seconds, he has only enough time to pull his sword free before he's wrapped up and hauled off - they don't even properly land, they just ensnare him and pull him up.
    so he had time to do something ay? i can understand they kidnapping Baine even when by raw logic he should be able to break the chains with his tauren power, he prob want peace with the creatures who were taking him, but the others? they can use MAGIC, Thrall and Drakka are shamans, Anduin is almost a paladin who can use the Light to do shit tons of things, are you telling me could not force the chains to broke?

    this is physical lame, like i said, if it was a swarm, like 20 or at least 10, you could say they defeated a few but were overwhelmed by their forces and lots of chains, this is nonsensical
    As for the chains themselves, sure, they pretty plot-convenient - but we also knew about them well ahead of time, due to Sylvanas' fight with Bolvar during which she used them to great effect to ensnare Bolvar, weaken him, and ultimately remove the Helm of Domination. So yeah, they're definitely engineered to enable the Mawsworn to take down high-value and dangerous targets like the faction leaders.
    they are not, i took several chain arrows to do something after bolvar wasted ton of his own power, he even break some chains with brute force, this is the same lv of shit of the fel poison being conveniently crafted only for this one plot.


    It's not really a matter of being dumbed down or anything, they were caught in the open, by surprise, and flat-footed to boot. There wasn't time for anyone to really do much, from unsheathing a weapon to uttering a spell. It was a precision attack.
    the plot itself of kidnapping is already dumbed down enough, but 2 creatures fishing one of the most powerful people from the skies like they are tuna is insanely dumb they could have done something, they are powerful enough to do that, jesus, Tyrande did something, the person who blew the bridge she was in, why the others didn't? muh night warrior power? bullshit, it was lame, it should be at least a fight or a resistance from then

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    Nope like Genn and Turalyon and Talanji she also was considered unimportant enough to completely ignore.
    ...
    Yet she takes Baine...
    So I just realised something, the Mawsworn had five targets and end up only abducting 4 of them. Doesn't that throw a kink in their plans if they just ignore Tyrande after trying once?
    why she would take baine is beyond my mental grasp, i rly can't play the 657d chess like her, she is still salty even saying they are nothing?

  17. #1657
    What if Anduin wanted to be kidnapped???? hahahhaha

  18. #1658
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    so he had time to do something ay? i can understand they kidnapping Baine even when by raw logic he should be able to break the chains with his tauren power, he prob want peace with the creatures who were taking him, but the others? they can use MAGIC, Thrall and Drakka are shamans, Anduin is almost a paladin who can use the Light to do shit tons of things, are you telling me could not force the chains to broke?

    this is physical lame, like i said, if it was a swarm, like 20 or at least 10, you could say they defeated a few but were overwhelmed by their forces and lots of chains, this is nonsensical
    I don't think the chains are regular chains by any means, especially what with them being pretty obviously wreathed in the same Death magic Sylvanas used beforehand - they're probably not breakable by conventional means of any kind, and then likely not without extensive preparation or foreknowledge. What exactly is a Shaman going to throw at them? Terrestrial elements like fire or stone? What's Anduin going to throw at them? The Light? Probably not going to be effective, at least not in the scant moments they've got to react to what's happening.

    You act as if the faction leaders could never conceivably be kidnapped or detained by extraplanar beings empowered by a godlike being. Thrall was captured and held prisoner by Staghelm when he was the World Shaman, after all. It's not without precedent, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    they are not, i took several chain arrows to do something after bolvar wasted ton of his own power, he even break some chains with brute force, this is the same lv of shit of the fel poison being conveniently crafted only for this one plot.
    That fact that these chains could bind and hold the Lich King should tell you something. Bolvar was able to break them but as seen in the cinematic they restored themselves almost instantly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the plot itself of kidnapping is already dumbed down enough, but 2 creatures fishing one of the most powerful people from the skies like they are tuna is insanely dumb they could have done something, they are powerful enough to do that, jesus, Tyrande did something, the person who blew the bridge she was in, why the others didn't? muh night warrior power? bullshit, it was lame, it should be at least a fight or a resistance from then
    We don't really know what Tyrande did to escape capture, but given that the Night Warrior is exceedingly powerful (and perhaps even calling upon similar powers as the Mawsworn now), it's going to be interesting to see what happens going forward. I don't think this is either as contrived or as implausible as you're trying to convey here. Although I do agree I would've really like to see one of the leaders fight with their captors, we really only got to see them capture Anduin and no one else.
    "HUMAN BEINGS MAKE LIFE SO INTERESTING. DO YOU KNOW, THAT IN A UNIVERSE SO FULL OF WONDERS, THEY HAVE MANAGED TO INVENT BOREDOM." - Death, Hogfather

  19. #1659
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't think the chains are regular chains by any means
    thats precisely the problem, convenient plot chains just like th convenient plot poison from legion, is lame

    , especially what with them being pretty obviously wreathed in the same Death magic Sylvanas used beforehand - they're probably not breakable by conventional means of any kind, and then likely not without extensive preparation or foreknowledge. What exactly is a Shaman going to throw at them? Terrestrial elements like fire or stone? What's Anduin going to throw at them? The Light? Probably not going to be effective, at least not in the scant moments they've got to react to what's happening.
    how they are not breakable? bolvar did broke by tearing then with his mace, but those ones are even more powerful someway somehow? and you can't see hos this plot convenience is lame?

    Did you just conveniently forgot that shamans can control the winds too? you know control the very place the monsters are coming up? blst their ass off with lightning? they literally saw then flying at then and they can't do shit bout just get chained and say bye?

    Light not being effective against Death Magic? don't you think you are rying to hard excuse blizzard in this one?
    You act as if the faction leaders could never conceivably be kidnapped or detained by extraplanar beings empowered by a godlike being. Thrall was captured and held prisoner by Staghelm when he was the World Shaman, after all. It's not without precedent, either.
    those are not absurd beings of imense power they are just minions, using death power(tht you said it would make sense to not be used here when they made the shadowlands spells locked, remember? )

    if it was that easy to kidnap leaders why we didn't before? this is dumbing down the story and you are trying to excuse this, thrall at least was fighting against the alliance army, it was not easy, he probably went to easy on thn to not spark any more blood, he is always soft like this, but against those enemies? nonsensical

    That fact that these chains could bind and hold the Lich King should tell you something. Bolvar was able to break them but as seen in the cinematic they restored themselves almost instantly.
    they didn't restored instantly, she keep shooting then, then she put more magic when he was weak, he at least put a fight, unlike the others

    We don't really know what Tyrande did to escape capture, but given that the Night Warrior is exceedingly powerful (and perhaps even calling upon similar powers as the Mawsworn now), it's going to be interesting to see what happens going forward. I don't think this is either as contrived or as implausible as you're trying to convey here.
    ah yes the plot convenience, Tyrande who could not dealt with Nathanos with that exceeding power, can take those absurd otherworldly godly beings

    Guess Nathanos is more powerful than those mawsworms with those plot chains that can even do a breakfest

    Like i said, its bad, if they had put a fight or had like 20 of those things i would not say a thing, but this is nonsensical.

  20. #1660
    Jesus, it's actually being defended. I've really got nothing more to add to what @Syegfryed, @Feanoro and @Darth-Piekus have already said when it comes to the abduction except that I don't know how you can seriously contest that it's at least unintentional high comedy, @Aucald.

    Moving away from that, since we now know that it is that easy to abduct people, I'd like your thoughts on why Sylvanas doesn't just kill them. She's already got them in chains, why don't the Val'kyr Kyrian just bash Anduin's skull against a cliff face, for her sake and ours? It's not like anyone would see them do it or that those present have any reason to believe Sylvanas would take these tards alive, nor does she have anything to gain from doing so given her sugar daddy's mastery of the afterlife.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-10-15 at 10:20 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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