SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Super Dickmann]

If Zill'kee "the World Reaper" is eligible for redemption in Revendreth, I suppose Krastinov qualifies.

Yeah, true that, it's not really contradictory, though the two have different types of evil. Krastinov's is a lot more human and thus more fucked up.

[tommyhil622]

I'm not even sure if the Arbiter is a full-fledged person. I think she's just a robot.

When i first saw the Arbiter and the story surrounding her/it, came off as some sort of construct or automaton. If true, it would be far beyond anything we seen before. Perhaps with some degree of sentience.

The Arbiter being inactive maybe be linked to the wrench in the cog. Since the shadowlands is in disarray, than the arbiter shuts down temporarily idk.

Or maybe the Arbiter is a living thing and requires massive amounts of anima to fulfill the role, and due to the drought, she goes into hibernation. Or maybe it's just the Jailer meddling with the threads of the shadowlands which directly affects her ability to function at all.

Would be interesting if the Arbiter was a shell controlled by another all along.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, when I say a "robot" I don't mean a literal automaton like MOTHER, so to speak, but rather a being who is extremely dispassionate and eminently logical - more machine than human, you might say.

That's...actually not a bad way to think of things.

[darkoms]

I mean, being older than reality doesn't make you older than the entire Cosmic chart. The Shadowlands isn't part of Reality, though it is connected to it in a way. Reality is just the Great Dark, etc. Also, yes, Argus is still that uber strong, and it is still the case. The thing is, however, is that there are stronger characters now.

"No, they said that the Guardians are part of the Pantheon of Order and that the Eternals are compatible with them in the sense that they are lower than the Titans, but very powerful, aren't they?" But the Keepers are but creations to the Titan Pantheon (Which is the actual Pantheon of Order). The Eternal Ones are the Pantheon of Death, so they SHOULD be comparable to other Pantheons like the Titan Pantheon. Maybe not in Power, whatever, but definitely in status, etc. Why would they not?

"In-game characters' opinions are not always 100% canon" But Bolvar was literally connected to the Maw during his time as the Lich King. He is literally the Illidan or the Magni of SL. Why would he not know more than someone like Krasus, who didn't know shit about Sargeras or the Old Gods and their true power, tbh.

"Rather, Argus simply COULD NOT do it, because after defeating the players, he tells Sargeras that he is going to claim his prize" He says that as a wipe line even before he casts it. Lore-wise, the Raid encounter, and Aman'thul talk about the End of All Things, which Argus canonically uses once he kills us. This is PROBABLY the thing that broke the Machine of Death tbh, as Argus is called "the Death Titan", and is using all this power that doesn't seem to be connected to the Fel (Or Order, even. Though, some of his things are based on Order), despite him being a weakened world soul. But, if you want, then you can take it with a grain of salt.

"He MAY be a formidable threat, after all, his army is probably equal to the Legion and he is an incredibly powerful being in himself, but I just don't think he's as scary as you are trying to describe him." Hard to really care about an army the size of the Legion when we beat the Legion 3 years ago. :/ I doubt that's the worst the Jailer has to offer.

"LOL what? He was simply surprised that the relic was activated by a mortal, he did not ''shat it in his pants''." Is that why he wanted to claim us as soon as possible before entering the portal? Granted, you could argue that was due to him not wanting us to escape the "inescapable Maw", but I believe it's more than that. Hell, we're probably one of the few guys that can actually activate these relics, as it appears not even the Jailer can activate a relic of theirs. Could mean we're a bigger deal than we let on tbh.

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Then again, she is in a coma throughout 9.0 lol. We'll see from here. Would be funny if she was like a robot though.

How did you determine which came first - reality or cosmological dimensions? Argus has never been as strong as you believed.

Everything is too complicated, we must wait for further information.

Bolvar is a mere mortal who saw something thanks to the Helmet.

Do you really believe that one defective Titan can destroy the universe? Class. And no, Argus is hardly connected with this, Ysera was one of the last souls to get into Ardenweald so that the death machine broke down at about 7.1, not 7.3.

We won? It took literally all the forces of Azeroth, even elementals and titan-forged, and after that the Alliance and Horde began another war with each other, practically leaving both factions without forces, and then another invasion of the Scourge occurred. Azeroth will not survive another such war.

I think this is the case. He saw that now we have a real chance to escape and wanted to stop us.

[masterjc]

The naaru change is funny, because I'm not sure if the change was meant to show that not all Venthyr hate the Naaru (as it is heavily implied it was Denathrius's fault for the Light invasion, hence why "vile naaru" may have been a view of his or his loyal followers) or it was only changed in an attempt to soothe hurt feelings of male human paladin players who get their panties in a twist whenever it's remotely insinuated that the Light could be antagonistic.

old stone about Naaru was absurd. it made no sense, that Naaru allowed themselves to be captured, and influenced Capturers to kill innocents.
it was pretty stupid

but it was still interesting.

[MikeBogina]

old stone about Naaru was absurd. it made no sense, that Naaru allowed themselves to be captured, and influenced Capturers to kill innocents.
it was pretty stupid

but it was still interesting.

I remember way way back in TBC reading a theory that the Naaru might not be so good and that A'dal allowed the Blood Elves to take/keep M'uru because it will eventually lead to him going dark and consuming all life in the area(basically use him as a WoMD) as people believed the Bone Wastes and what happened to Auchindoun was the result of a Naaru like D'ore. Turned out to not be true and even the bonewastes weren't caused by a naaru either.

But it is interesting if it's a new development that the naaru do purposely let themselves get captured, just because this theory was a thing before.

[Aucald]

I wonder if the faded, cracked portions on Tyrande's face are indicative of the start of the Night Warrior power eating at her?

[Rhlor]

nordrassil new capital of the night elves!

[LemonDemonGirl]

Uhh... it says there's 83 pages, but when you click on page 83 it just refreshes?

[Rhlor]

"MASTER OF DEMONS
Drawing on demonic power, the undead warlock staves off decay and grows stronger with every victim she drains life from."

it's a good explanation

[masterjc]

I remember way way back in TBC reading a theory that the Naaru might not be so good and that A'dal allowed the Blood Elves to take/keep M'uru because it will eventually lead to him going dark and consuming all life in the area(basically use him as a WoMD) as people believed the Bone Wastes and what happened to Auchindoun was the result of a Naaru like D'ore. Turned out to not be true and even the bonewastes weren't caused by a naaru either.

But it is interesting if it's a new development that the naaru do purposely let themselves get captured, just because this theory was a thing before.

I remember that too. Wow.Joystiq was amazing place for lore and speculation.

It kind of made sense too, even it wasnot proved

[Super Dickmann]

The way Anduin was abducted was absolutely fucking hilarious. I took the piss out of Sylvanas loyalists nabbing them away in bags like bank robbers, but two dudes popping out of the clouds, snapping him up and fleeing is basically that with the added benefit of Genn yelling at clouds.

The fact that Bolvar's speech is 100% content-free platitudes because of Sylvanas's incomprehensible characterization is also great and so is him hailing Acherus like a taxi.

Amazing, would watch again and have already done so.

[crazyswayzee]

Amazing how Warcraft's afterlife works just like real life human justice systems and corporate worlds. There's no tried and true formula, it's just an individual or group's whims at any given time.

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Lich King referred to as a False King actually sounds kind of cool, I can accept that. There being other beings who shaped the cosmos before the Titans is horse shit, though. That's too big a retcon to swallow, considering Titan lore was literally first written as recently as Vanilla WoW. The first time I even heard of Titans was after clearing Uldaman when they were referred to as "creators" to Brann (I think it was?) when we complete the discs quest. Subsequently, every dungeon or raid featuring Titan lore referred to them as creators, makers, and architects, now we have this generic ass "first ones?" Sigh. They've barely even fully fleshed out the Titan characters besides Sargeras, and they're already getting replaced in the story as their role as creators.

Jailer being out for Azeroth's soul is cool too, though.

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That's... kind of cool, they essentially gave Kil'Jaeden their ace in the hole to reach into the realm of the living.

i get your point, i dont like the retcon of titans as creators too but maybe we should see it from another point of view. the first ones (lame af name) created the universe but the titans were still the ones who ordered it, they went to draenor and tamed the elementals and they got the backup plan named algalon for azeroth and so on, so the titans have still a very big role in our current world and are most likely the ones that made the azeroth we know and experience. from this point i can accept it i guess. btw making the titans the creators of everything when they are only one of 6 cosmic forces makes not much sense, if they created everything they should have more power over the other ones, so its fine this way.

[Saltysquidoon]

I speculated there would be some sort of event or scenario of Slyvanas BTFOing the ebon blade or that this cutscene would show it, turns out no Acherus was just out for milk when she attacked.

Also, lol at the 14D galaxy brain chess maneuver of just stealing anduin from the capital. I'm going to assume given no one even bothered to make a thread for this that not even the staunchest blizzboys are willing to defend this lazy nonsense.

[Feanoro]

We won? It took literally all the forces of Azeroth, even elementals and titan-forged, and after that the Alliance and Horde began another war with each other, practically leaving both factions without forces, and then another invasion of the Scourge occurred. Azeroth will not survive another such war.

You forget Blizzard's love of pulling entire armies out of thin air.

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The way Anduin was abducted was absolutely fucking hilarious. I took the piss out of Sylvanas loyalists nabbing them away in bags like bank robbers, but two dudes popping out of the clouds, snapping him up and fleeing is basically that with the added benefit of Genn yelling at clouds.

The fact that Bolvar's speech is 100% content-free platitudes because of Sylvanas's incomprehensible characterization is also great and so is him hailing Acherus like a taxi.

Amazing, would watch again and have already done so.

Sad part is they mean for us to take it seriously.

[bagina]

Any idea when can we expect the cutscene with Tyrande killing Nathanos?

[Super Dickmann]

Sad part is they mean for us to take it seriously.

I feel kind of careful about praising it because when we all laughed about how in the beta the Jailor punted Baine off a cliff and threw him out because he wasn't even worth torturing they backtracked. If I praise this level of cheese and B-movie tier scenes will they go back to overwrought melodrama to spite me?

I jinxed it with those Saurfang cinematics, man, I'm just not sure anymore.

[masterjc]

Any idea when can we expect the cutscene with Tyrande killing Nathanos?

i hope we see it in next few days.

Nathanos will appears as WQ in prepatch. but in Week 1 or Week 2 idk.

[Darth-Piekus]

So what was that? Some strange Valkyrs are coming out of the clouds abducting Powerhouses with unbeatable shadow chains now? Then why is the player character able to destroy them in masses without these chains working? What's with this shitty plot armor with Light/Magic/Elements working when it feels like it?

[Verdugo]

So what was that? Some strange Valkyrs are coming out of the clouds abducting Powerhouses with unbeatable shadow chains now? Then why is the player character able to destroy them in masses without these chains working? What's with this shitty plot armor with Light/Magic/Elements working when it feels like it?

How the fuck are you shocked now. Where were you for the entire existence of WoW.