Corruption - The worst system ever added to the game?

[Specialka]

And that alone makes them craftable orange gear with special effects, not legendaries.

As usual, as soon as you run out of argument, you are debating semantics xD. How classic. And I guess that everyone calling them Legendairies (even Blizzard) makes everyone wrong, except for you ?

[Firebert]

Considering that the devs can't even be bothered to balance it, yes.

[Doffen]

I don't plan to read your posts because you are incapable of reading with comprehension.

You didn't figured out anything of this because it's false except for argus - when i stopped playing and went with friend alt runs on last days of expansion where everyone was OP as fuck.

Aside from that I was on most guild first kills since MoP. And xavius was 3rd kill.

You killed 4 ToS bosses in mythic then you killed KJ and got CE the week before Antorus opened. Kinda interesting. You killed Gul'dan in time and from the looks of it, your guild, and Xavius(but so did any mythic guild). A friend boosted you? Funny with those friends, they keep popping up when people need excuses. You also stopped playing in ToS right? Then got a friend boosting you the week before Antorus came? You also killed Helya the week before Nighthold. Was that your friend? So you did stop playing already after 4 months then in Legion? The plot thickens. You are not a Cutting Edge raider, you are a mythic raider with a couple of self-earned CE's. You are average mythic raider, at best.

But I gotta say, you are a pretty good heroic raider.

You can still check all that stuff out. And unlike doffen I've got nothing to hide because that dude never went mythic in first place since he doesn't even know how to use simcraft.

But I do know not to mix stuff with simcraft just to win a point. "he doesn't know how to use simcraft" Sick burn. I don't got anything to hide. And I don't hide it. But you do hide quite a lot of stuff, from self earned cutting edge with grey/green logs, that you killed less bosses than what you say, that you are in a top 200 guild when you are not even close etc. So who got nothing to hide?

Btw, you don't read my posts. But you surely had to read my post to actually defend yourself here to lobster. So, you do read. But you do reply like this when you get called out on your bullshit and lying.

And you saying this to me when you write this:

And again it shows how little you know about classes because hunters are squishy as fuck compare to locks, especially demo locks.

First of all it depends on class and people how much corruption can they can go. Warlocks, hunters, mages (from what i know) have no issues dealing with thing from beyond. Or at least should have not.

If you say hunters are squishy as fuck, how can you take both hunter and warlock into this same situation? If both warlock and hunter have no issues surviving corruption, how can you say hunters how low survivability? Since you are this top 200(0) mythic raider as you say, how do you not know that squishyness is not the same as being low on surviveability?

I know why though. You tried to score a point against me, even though you agree with my argument seeing you put warlock and hunters with the same survivability when talking to another poster. Not only that, BM hunter can avoid stuff much more easily than Warlock. Or don't you know that? I would hope you know that seeing you play both of them and you are this know it all mythic raider.

Well unfortunately those things aren't separate.

Like Specialka says, they are separate. The systems themselves are very different. The rng is the same. Then you can go on with why you think corruption is more fun or whatever, which is purely opinion based. The rng however is not, and is objectively worse with corruption since you got 54+ different ones and 4 layers of rng to get what you need, at any given time. Doesn't help if you got 300 corruption pieces, but it helped to get more legendary pieces.

And seeing blizzard have said the effect of legendaries was something people really liked, they brought them back in Shadowlands. That you don't know the difference in the systems, that's kinda concerning seeing you are a wow addon creator.

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As usual, as soon as you run out of argument, you are debating semantics xD. How classic. And I guess that everyone calling them Legendairies (even Blizzard) makes everyone wrong, except for you ?

Of course. He calls them craftable orange gear now, and not legendaries since that would require him to admit that it's the same thing as we had in Legion. It's just ridiculous.

[Lethl]

Corruption, and essence was the main reason i unsubbed in 8.3... While i had most essence unlocked (Those i wanted), i always felt to have an alt at end of expansion. But corruption was what really killed it completely I cant for the sake, stand that shitt at all (RNG). They did it more accessible later, but it was already to late for me to even considering it. Im far from the only one, 80% of my guild also just stopped playing because of that. Pretty sure subs dropped or never got renewed. Fixes later seems like a band aid if you ask me... Corruption is indeed the worst that was ever created, people are already looking forward to the day it gets removed.

[cparle87]

@Doffen I played Legion so much that not only did I gather EVERY. SINGLE. LEGIONDARY for Guardian druid - I started looting the Balance and Restoration and Feral ones as well, since the game could not give me more Guardian legendaries, cause I had them all. Luffa bracers + Elize's pants = wombocombo. I did of course start off with Prydaz and Sephuz's ring, just like every other unlucky person, but hey, at least Prydaz is quite decent for tanking.

Legiondaries were a fine system. You could get them from ANYTHING, whether it be WQ's, M+, raids, LFR, even random over-world treasure chests could have them. Corruption is just...meh. I'm a fucking druid. I protect Azeroth. My character would NEVER willingly wear Old-god-corrupted gear, ever. Just goes against his whole being. After killing avatars of C'thun and Yog'sarron and beating down Y'shaarj-infused Garrosh Hellscream, he would NEVER wear N'zoth's corrupted gear. Not in a million gears.

Fellow druid here. I did not get a single legendary in the entire first patch of the xpac. First day of 7.1 I'm running a reg mythic and get the +energy in cat form ring from the second boss. By the end of 7.2 I had them all. I actually think Sephuz was my last and Prydaz my third from last.

[Ezyah]

[kaminaris]

You killed 4 ToS bosses in mythic then you killed KJ and got CE the week before Antorus opened. Kinda interesting. You killed Gul'dan in time and from the looks of it, your guild, and Xavius(but so did any mythic guild). A friend boosted you? Funny with those friends, they keep popping up when people need excuses. You also stopped playing in ToS right? Then got a friend boosting you the week before Antorus came? You also killed Helya the week before Nighthold. Was that your friend? So you did stop playing already after 4 months then in Legion? The plot thickens. You are not a Cutting Edge raider, you are a mythic raider with a couple of self-earned CE's. You are average mythic raider, at best.

And what did you kill in time? Or maybe you didn't really kill any mythic boss?

Bosses I was on guild first kills: Garosh, Imperator, Archimonde, guldan, helya, Jaina
Xavius was like 3rd guild kill, nzoth - like 5th. kiljaden was like 12 or so, it was when i started to stop playing.
never killed blackhand, ghuun and uunat.
Even if you dont count that stupid argus that was basically puggable at this time its still 9.


There is a huge fucking difference btween having everyone around farm shit in hope for right legendary drops vs farming shit in order to craft specific legendary.

MoP cloak, WoD ring, BfA cloak (and shadowlands leggos) all falls to the second category and nobody even says a thing about it because everyone had them in about the same time.
Legion legendaries falls to first category and if you think that "its the same" then you are straight up mad.

Acquisition is a part of the system and is not separate.

[Doffen]

And what did you kill in time? Or maybe you didn't really kill any mythic boss?

No, the difference is that I am not claiming it. I don't have to lie about it like you do to feel superior. I get that feeling easily enough when I see your arguments where you argue against your own argument like the hunter vs warlock thing you did, and how you fail to see even the most basic thing in the game.

I'm just calling you out on your lies. And you once again move goalpost, now with the other legendaries that had no rng. Why are you comparing them when Corruption is the one thing you can compare it to? And no, the systems are seperate. Same as Corruption. The actual system on what legendaries and corruption do are seperate from the acquisition. You also still keep saying Corruption rng is way better when its objectively not. The only reason why you say it is because you like BfA more. Legendaries and corruption had the same flaws but the legendary effects were liked and easier to balance, so we get that system back, but with another acquisition system attached.

You are just not here to discuss. You are here pretending to be some Cutting Edge god when in reality you are a less than mediocre mythic raider who only argue with hyperbolic arguments and low ball insult who don't know how to argue. That you think that my point is to diminish your "feats" as a "CE" raider and then say that I don't have CE myself, you again show that you don't understand basics. You are lying to people about your achievements, thats the issue. And you do it because you know you can't argue like an adult and think it strengthens your argument. Which it does not, it just shows you don't understand even the most basic thing in the game. You are trying so hard to score argument points you totally miss that you counter your own arguments like the surviveability one about hunters and warlocks.

Equiping Avoidance and Leech Corruption that add corruption, aka more damage taken. That does sound logical to you. But a proper mythic raider, hell normal raider would understand thats a counterintuitive thing to do. Its a huge flaw, but you still push that as something viable just to score an argument point. It's embarrasing to read, and I will now stop arguing more against you in this particular thread. But I'll keep calling you out if you lie about your achievement you bought again, if you try to use it as an argument against other posters in the future.

[Short]

if it was a system that was only in place for a pre-patch to an expansion launch it would've been fine.
but as a system for a whole raiding tier... yeah, nah...

[kaminaris]

No, the difference is that I am not claiming it. I don't have to lie about it like you do to feel superior.

Dude the whole point is that legiondaries were worse than corruptions. Simply because of absolutely retarded acquisition.
It's obviously more painful for raiders.

So how the hell did corruption touch you more than legiondaries is beyond me. Especially if you don't raid mythic. Those two system should have been absolutely irrelevant for you. And even then, corruption was still far easier to acquire.

And by the way, you really need to work on reading with comprehension, like really really hard, if you think I even remotely contradicted myself with warlock vs hunter.

So like someone said, people complain about corruptions being worst probably just played at the end of legion and/or don't remember legiondaries.

[kevincuomo]

There are too many bad systems to say which of them have been the worst honestly.

[Specialka]

Dude the whole point is that legiondaries were worse than corruptions. Simply because of absolutely retarded acquisition.
It's obviously more painful for raiders.

So how the hell did corruption touch you more than legiondaries is beyond me. Especially if you don't raid mythic. Those two system should have been absolutely irrelevant for you. And even then, corruption was still far easier to acquire.

And by the way, you really need to work on reading with comprehension, like really really hard, if you think I even remotely contradicted myself with warlock vs hunter.

So like someone said, people complain about corruptions being worst probably just played at the end of legion and/or don't remember legiondaries.

Well, at least, with Legiondairies, you were certain to get them all at the end. While with corruption, before the vendor, you did not have the same odds. And even with the vendor, they had to put a rotation on it.

And it is even more imbalanced than Legiondairies as you simply can't compete with someone that is full deck in Corruption (And I am not even talking about tank with tons of TD). The catch ups in place are meh at best as you have no way to get to 100+ corruption resistance on your cape in a short time as you are very limited in how to get the item to upgrade it.

Meaning, if you come back now, you are way behind everybody and it is really long before you catch them up. While if you came back at the end of Legion, you could simply buy your Bis at the vendor after a bit of farm.

[Raelbo]

The catch ups in place are meh at best as you have no way to get to 100+ corruption resistance on your cape in a short time as you are very limited in how to get the item to upgrade it.

Meaning, if you come back now, you are way behind everybody and it is really long before you catch them up. While if you came back at the end of Legion, you could simply buy your Bis at the vendor after a bit of farm.

The catchup mechanism is just fine as is. If you've just decided to come back right now, you should have to spend a few weeks, in the very least, to catch up with people who have been committed and active for several months to acquire their gear. Honestly, complaints like this just feel to me like whining for the sake of whining

If you want to be competitive then don't bugger off for a tier and then come back expecting everything to be simply handed to you on a silver platter when they're already practically bending over to accommodate you.

[Azerox]

Still wonder how they thought this would be beter then WF/TF.
Most aweful proc stuff ever in the game. Burn it with fire.

[Ange]

Still wonder how they thought this would be beter then WF/TF.
Most aweful proc stuff ever in the game. Burn it with fire.

Corruption is Blizzards way of showing how wrong the community was with its REMOVE WF/TF BECAUSE ANYTHING ELSE IS BETTER.

Giving streamers/influencers attention is just forcing quick and dirty solutions from Blizzard and if you dont like that, maybe, just maybe don't give stupid individuals so much power over the game development.

[Kehego]

What are you implying here?

you really don't get it huh?
lmao

[Raelbo]

Corruption is the most RNG system we have had in the game.

If by "most RNG" you mean the most possible permutations, sure. But in terms of practical outcomes, not really.

Consider a game where you use dice to determine your score from 1 to 100. As the game progresses you periodically get a chance to reroll a die and - if it's better - replace an older roll.

Now you have 2 scenarios: In Scenario 1 you have a single d100. In Scenario 2 you have 20d5.

In Scenario 1, there only one variable, but it's all or nothing. You could do fantastically and roll a 100 on your first try, or you could be stuck below 20 for the first 10 rolls.

In Scenario 2, there is lots of RNG. RNG on top of RNG!! But in the end the results are actually going to be far more predictable. Sure, you're not going to get close to 100 at the start, but there's also no chance of getting below 20. You're probably going to land up somewhere around 60. And better yet, each time you reroll on your dice, you're pretty likely to score an improvement. Over time you'll progressively approach 100.


The point of this demonstration was to show how more RNG can actually lead to more predictable results. Because that's how statistics work when you're dealing with a large number of samples.

The point of the corruption system was that everyone would land up getting a lot of corrupted items and thus have a decent choice of what to use to be effective. And important, due to statistically significant sampling, it was extremely probable that any given person would be pretty close to the average for their effort level.

I suspect that the real issue that caused most of the player unhappiness among those who were unhappy (and vocal about it) had a lot more to do with players perceiving their own rewards to be worse, relative to other players, than they actually were. And of course the situation wasn't (and isn't) helped by forums like this one that simply fed into that false perception.

Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of players on forums like this one, have this idea that you have to have the best or nothing. As a result they struggle to find satisfaction when they're meant to make do with something in between while working towards the best. And that is not a problem or fault with the game. It's a fault with the individuals who get themselves stuck into that mindset. Even if the game did give them what they believe they want, it still wouldn't satisfy them, because without something better to pursue there would no longer be any point in playing.

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Still wonder how they thought this would be beter then WF/TF.

Because they were trying to listen to the players who were complaining incessantly about WF/TF, only those players didn't actually have a clue.

The sad fact is that WF/TF wasn't ever a problem (or at least not the problem that it's detractors liked to make it out to be). WF/TF was simply a mechanism to achieve a desired outcome - to solve a specific problem with gear progression hitting a hard cap. So when they designed corruption, they designed it to solve the same problem, and as such nothing really changed for those who hated WF/TF.

[Doffen]

If by "most RNG" you mean the most possible permutations, sure. But in terms of practical outcomes, not really.

Consider a game where you use dice to determine your score from 1 to 100. As the game progresses you periodically get a chance to reroll a die and - if it's better - replace an older roll.

Now you have 2 scenarios: In Scenario 1 you have a single d100. In Scenario 2 you have 20d5.

In Scenario 1, there only one variable, but it's all or nothing. You could do fantastically and roll a 100 on your first try, or you could be stuck below 20 for the first 10 rolls.

In Scenario 2, there is lots of RNG. RNG on top of RNG!! But in the end the results are actually going to be far more predictable. Sure, you're not going to get close to 100 at the start, but there's also no chance of getting below 20. You're probably going to land up somewhere around 60. And better yet, each time you reroll on your dice, you're pretty likely to score an improvement. Over time you'll progressively approach 100.


The point of this demonstration was to show how more RNG can actually lead to more predictable results. Because that's how statistics work when you're dealing with a large number of samples.

The point of the corruption system was that everyone would land up getting a lot of corrupted items and thus have a decent choice of what to use to be effective. And important, due to statistically significant sampling, it was extremely probable that any given person would be pretty close to the average for their effort level.

But it does not work like that though. The chance to get BiS corruption is just as good as first try as number 1000. I have a guildie that have been trying to get Invincible for a decade. And he then said for a couple of years ago, that he probably has 50% chance to get the mount the next runs since he had done it so many times. Math does not work like that. And a large amount of samples do not help when you are one player that think about what you want right. Does not matter if 5 million corruption pieces among 1 million players will give a more balanced result, for that one player the RNG is as RNGish, always. With legendaries the example of Invincible would actually work, because the more legendaries you got, the bigger chance it was to get the next one. In start you wanted BiS, you had 10 legendaries, so 10% chance. If you got 5 of them, leaving you with 5, the chance to get a bis legendary next time was 20%. If you ddin't get it within 8 first, you had a 50% chance to get BiS the next time.

Now, Corruption and legendaries are different in the way that appear as a drop seeing there are many more corruption pieces you get per legendary. Many in fact. But the dice also got 6 times as many sides.

I suspect that the real issue that caused most of the player unhappiness among those who were unhappy (and vocal about it) had a lot more to do with players perceiving their own rewards to be worse, relative to other players, than they actually were. And of course the situation wasn't (and isn't) helped by forums like this one that simply fed into that false perception.

Because you seem to review this with a big pool of players. If someone in your guild got their BiS, and you got something that does half of theirs, that's something that players can be rightfully "upset" about. You say perceiving, I say knowing the other player got something that can do 30% of his throughput, while yours can do maximum 10%.

But this also my point, because we have discussed Corruption vs Legendaries. Seeing corruptions have the potential of making bigger differences than Legendaries ever did, you can put your argument on that as well. I am not saying Legendaries had no rng, but the thing is that we have people here claiming corruption is 1000 times better than legendaries were, when you can put every issue with legendaries onto Corruption. That's the real discussion here, not if players are vocal and thing are much worse than they are. It always is, and my opinion on that is the same as yours.

Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of players on forums like this one, have this idea that you have to have the best or nothing. As a result they struggle to find satisfaction when they're meant to make do with something in between while working towards the best. And that is not a problem or fault with the game. It's a fault with the individuals who get themselves stuck into that mindset. Even if the game did give them what they believe they want, it still wouldn't satisfy them, because without something better to pursue there would no longer be any point in playing.

I fully agree with that. But that's not really what I have been discussing with a couple of others.

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you really don't get it huh?
lmao

Explain to me then? Why was IS on shield something you got worked up on? You implying he was lying perhaps?

[Aucald]

This thread needs to settle down. It is also about the Corruption system and now who is or isn't a Cutting Edge raider or other similar self-promotion. Focus on the topic of the thread going forward.

[Raelbo]

But it does not work like that though. The chance to get BiS corruption is just as good as first try as number 1000.

Not really, because getting "BiS Corruption" is about getting a combination of items. And, statistically, getting such a combination prior to the vendor was extremely improbable.

I have a guildie that have been trying to get Invincible for a decade. And he then said for a couple of years ago, that he probably has 50% chance to get the mount the next runs since he had done it so many times. Math does not work like that. And a large amount of samples do not help when you are one player that think about what you want right.

But I am not talking about going for just 1 item. Every serious mount collector has that "Invincible" (in my case it's Rivendare's Deathcharger) that simply won't drop. But that doesn't stop one from being able to collect the 400 mounts you need for A Horde of Hoofbeats (or the next achievement that comes along).

And that's my whole point about corruption. It's not all or nothing. You might not have gotten the exact corruption that you wanted, but what you will get is almost as good. Certainly sufficient to get the job done and likely on par (ie within a few %) with 95% of your peers.

Does not matter if 5 million corruption pieces among 1 million players will give a more balanced result, for that one player the RNG is as RNGish, always.

I am not talking about 5 corruption pieces per player. I am talking about 50 pieces per player (per month). The probability of not getting something at least half-decent out of that is completely negligible.

Because you seem to review this with a big pool of players. If someone in your guild got their BiS, and you got something that does half of theirs, that's something that players can be rightfully "upset" about.

You've just demonstrated my point. You're creating a hypothetical scenario with no basis in fact in order to try and demonstrate the existence of a real problem. What I am saying is that unless your hypothetical scenario does reflect reality, it cannot be used as the basis of proof. But this is what a lot of people will do: They'll look at what corruptions they got, compare it to what is theoretically possible, regardless of how improbable and then then take that as the baseline against which to compare their own situation. And if someone is constantly measuring their own luck against an unrealistic benchmark, of course it's going to feel like they've been royally screwed over by the system.

For people playing in a mythic guild, the number of chances they're going to have at getting corrupted items are so numerous that the probability of not getting something better than 50% of the next guy is practically impossible. Sure, there will be differences in luck, which will translate directly into outputs, but what I am saying is that, in reality, these differences are a lot smaller than most people intuitively think it is.

The only place you're likely to see that kind of wild variance is in the super casual environment where 1 person might get super lucky, and thus outshine the rest of his peers, not on the basis of being exceptional so much as the mediocrity of those peers.

You say perceiving, I say knowing the other player got something that can do 30% of his throughput, while yours can do maximum 10%.

I've never seen evidence of this actually happening in any serious guild.

But this also my point, because we have discussed Corruption vs Legendaries. Seeing corruptions have the potential of making bigger differences than Legendaries ever did, you can put your argument on that as well. I am not saying Legendaries had no rng, but the thing is that we have people here claiming corruption is 1000 times better than legendaries were, when you can put every issue with legendaries onto Corruption.

Personally I think that the arguments against both Corruptions and Legiondaries suffer from a similar fallacy in that people get overly upset if they don't have the perfect item drop for them. Certainly with Legiondaries there were acceptable substitutes which were good enough, even if not the best, and the same is true of Corruptions.

However there is one legitimate point about Legiondaries and that has to do with the bug that made it impossible to get more than 4 in the beginning of Legion.

Also, I would argue that with Corruption, the frequency with which you get corrupted items means that you're far less likely to get screwed by not getting something reasonably decent.