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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I teresti g the balance druids were moaning about being the worse druid spec for most 9f wow.

    I guess the game had too many melee with DH, Monk and DK all adding melee specs, they need classes that have range specs to be strong.

    Shoulda given the DH a range spec for Shadowlands
    It honestly wouldn't of been a bad idea. Some spec focused on hurling fel energy would of worked maybe take out fel rush for that spec to make it less mobile. Right now unless they get buffed you are only going to be bringing one dh for the magic dmg buff and maybe the melee debuff from their bis covenant.

    There are just to many melee and they are never valued as highly as range.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    It honestly wouldn't of been a bad idea. Some spec focused on hurling fel energy would of worked maybe take out fel rush for that spec to make it less mobile. Right now unless they get buffed you are only going to be bringing one dh for the magic dmg buff and maybe the melee debuff from their bis covenant.

    There are just to many melee and they are never valued as highly as range.
    Wow, i should have spell checked before posting that. But yes, essentially, you're right. It's been clear to me melee is king in this game, but range is still quite necessary, not sure what was so hard about the adding a range spec to DH, it is part of the Illidan lore, he's the greatest sorceror that ever lived according to one of the wow official books, (though that's probably better interpreted as one of the greatest ), so obviously he is both melee and range and one would assume that DHs would be both.

    An alternative approach would have been to have Illidari as both DHs and warlocks and warlock class mechanic used to prepresent a caster Illidari with it's own unique class name like Fel Lord in a similar way to how Tidesage is a unique class name/concept but uses the shaman class to play, and Blood knight is a modified paladin, even though gameplay wise it's a paladin.

    They could have taken a warlock spec, or merged a pet less , green fire version of Destro and affliction with a little bit of demon blowing up and eating to gain temporary power, that would have done it.

    I just feel that if there were more range specs, then feral would be stronger. I don't know if Shaman have the same issue, but i wouldn't be surprised if Ele was the stronger spec atm. Tp get players to pick it up more.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Wow, i should have spell checked before posting that. But yes, essentially, you're right. It's been clear to me melee is king in this game, but range is still quite necessary, not sure what was so hard about the adding a range spec to DH, it is part of the Illidan lore, he's the greatest sorceror that ever lived according to one of the wow official books, (though that's probably better interpreted as one of the greatest ), so obviously he is both melee and range and one would assume that DHs would be both.

    An alternative approach would have been to have Illidari as both DHs and warlocks and warlock class mechanic used to prepresent a caster Illidari with it's own unique class name like Fel Lord in a similar way to how Tidesage is a unique class name/concept but uses the shaman class to play, and Blood knight is a modified paladin, even though gameplay wise it's a paladin.

    They could have taken a warlock spec, or merged a pet less , green fire version of Destro and affliction with a little bit of demon blowing up and eating to gain temporary power, that would have done it.

    I just feel that if there were more range specs, then feral would be stronger. I don't know if Shaman have the same issue, but i wouldn't be surprised if Ele was the stronger spec atm. Tp get players to pick it up more.
    Soulreaping is something they practice and it is a combination of ranged drains and fel magics. One of the main DH characters does this. There is room to add more specs when the time is right and I hope they make that a major feature of an expansion down the line and give all classes a new spec.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Well Rip is more essential to feral's damage than Rupture for assa. Also, mutilate 2cp 50energy vs shred 1cp 40 energy - assa generates cp's faster. Not to mention Fan of Knives cp generation....
    The damage is the least of our concerns, since that can be tuned.

    It's the shroud of concealment, feint, blind, distract, cloak of shadows utility that completely eclipses feral.

    Assassination also has way better burst cd's for being a "bleed" class, and because so much of their damage comes from poison procs off autos on top of the meaty raptures they can easily put up, they frontload damage a lot better than feral whenever feral is tuned around bleeds.

    Feral AoE is also pretty deficient. You have to talent into aoe to begin with, and primal wrath has Rip lasting longer than it takes you to get 5 cp's agains so you just sit there FB'ing targets until rip wears off.

    Primal Wrath is just really bad design, we need a direct damage aoe cp spender to complement aoe bleeds because bleeds can't be stacked.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2020-09-05 at 10:28 AM.

  5. #45
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    The damage is the least of our concerns, since that can be tuned.

    It's the shroud of concealment, feint, blind, distract, cloak of shadows utility that completely eclipses feral.
    Uhh... feral has a lot of utility. All the druid CC, healing, combat ress. Different than rogue, yes, but a lot of utility.

    Now if you want to look at someone without utility.... that's dps warriors.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Uhh... feral has a lot of utility. All the druid CC, healing, combat ress. Different than rogue, yes, but a lot of utility.

    Now if you want to look at someone without utility.... that's dps warriors.
    the problem is not the lack of utility but the the lack of feral unique utility.

    There is no point in bringing a feral over a boomkin, bear or a resto as they bring all the feral utility and much more.

  7. #47
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naeblis495 View Post
    the problem is not the lack of utility but the the lack of feral unique utility.

    There is no point in bringing a feral over a boomkin, bear or a resto as they bring all the feral utility and much more.
    That's an overall issue of all hybrid classes, hardly anything of the utility is spec-specific.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Wow, i should have spell checked before posting that. But yes, essentially, you're right. It's been clear to me melee is king in this game, but range is still quite necessary, not sure what was so hard about the adding a range spec to DH, it is part of the Illidan lore, he's the greatest sorceror that ever lived according to one of the wow official books, (though that's probably better interpreted as one of the greatest ), so obviously he is both melee and range and one would assume that DHs would be both.

    An alternative approach would have been to have Illidari as both DHs and warlocks and warlock class mechanic used to prepresent a caster Illidari with it's own unique class name like Fel Lord in a similar way to how Tidesage is a unique class name/concept but uses the shaman class to play, and Blood knight is a modified paladin, even though gameplay wise it's a paladin.

    They could have taken a warlock spec, or merged a pet less , green fire version of Destro and affliction with a little bit of demon blowing up and eating to gain temporary power, that would have done it.

    I just feel that if there were more range specs, then feral would be stronger. I don't know if Shaman have the same issue, but i wouldn't be surprised if Ele was the stronger spec atm. Tp get players to pick it up more.
    The problem with feral is its mechanics really only shine in now dead systems. In essence once dot snapshoting died ferals died as a viable class. They more or less need a rework form the ground up if they want to be competitive with warrs,dh,dk,rogues,and rets and to a lesser degree monks who exist as a viable class because blizzard hasn't patched their bugged dps rotation in three expacs.

    Shamans are one of those dark spots in my knowledge I played one enough to get all its melee weapons but beyond its caster spec I would struggle to explain even the basics of the class.

    I guess there are survival hunters as well but no one cares about those outside of pvp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Uhh... feral has a lot of utility. All the druid CC, healing, combat ress. Different than rogue, yes, but a lot of utility.

    Now if you want to look at someone without utility.... that's dps warriors.
    Their utility is executes and cleave and while it is rarely a reason to stack them you really feel their loss on heavy add fights. While not a required class for the last boss of this tier they are definitely nice to have.

    Edit: I also just realized I have been talking in the druid class forums thought this was the sl general... sorry to be so negative about one of your specs.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Uhh... feral has a lot of utility. All the druid CC, healing, combat ress. Different than rogue, yes, but a lot of utility.

    Now if you want to look at someone without utility.... that's dps warriors.
    What "all the druid CC"? In case you haven't checked the baseline feral "utility" is a single target stun in maim, which costs combo points and does much less damage than your other finishers, and they can talent into ursol's vortex, at the cost of guardian affinity making us one of the squishies melee in the game after they took our charge of SI and replaced it with the garbage barkskin.

    Battle rez is not a spec specific utility. Not only can other druid specs bring it, but 3 DK and 3 warlock specs as well, and those classes bring far more utility including an aoe stun and gate+health stones or grip+20% magic damage mitigation.

    Feral healing is a complete joke. A full regrowth over its 12 second hot duration heals for a measly 34k hp on a 500k+ health pool; that's less than 6.8% of someone's HP, and if you took resto affinity rejuv takes you out of form, costs you 2 globals for a 6% HP heal over 18 seconds and swiftmend is an 11% HP heal at again the cost of 2 globals and taking you out of form. That's at best 24% of someone's HP over 18 seconds with the cost of 4 globals worth of DPS and now in shadowlands will be even less because swiftmend will go back to eating your rejuvenation.

  10. #50
    Feral is very much fun to play in the beta and the missing utitility does not matter for the absolute majority of the player base. Unless you are a highend raider or pushing m+ keys to the max, you can play ALL the content and be just fine. I've had a blast testing covenants and legendaries and finally playing around with talents in m+
    A good player can find his place with any class and spec and clear all the content. Facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by naeblis495 View Post
    the problem is not the lack of utility but the the lack of feral unique utility.

    There is no point in bringing a feral over a boomkin, bear or a resto as they bring all the feral utility and much more.
    So you're saying you would deny someone like psybearslat for a shitty m+ key because he is feral, to take a boomkin just to have shitty trees
    nobody needs anymore in exchange for less overall dps?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Easyclassictopkeklel View Post

    So you're saying you would deny someone like psybearslat for a shitty m+ key because he is feral, to take a boomkin just to have shitty trees
    nobody needs anymore in exchange for less overall dps?
    If the key don't matter than , no i don't give a fuck who is in my party .
    But for any key that matter ,boomkin treants will be a much more valuable tool than anything a feral can bring.
    Last edited by naeblis495; 2020-09-05 at 06:37 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    It honestly wouldn't of been a bad idea. Some spec focused on hurling fel energy would of worked maybe take out fel rush for that spec to make it less mobile. Right now unless they get buffed you are only going to be bringing one dh for the magic dmg buff and maybe the melee debuff from their bis covenant.

    There are just to many melee and they are never valued as highly as range.
    Yeah, no.

    Current havoc is a bare boned 3 buttons baseline spec and they can't even be bothered to flesh it out or baseline talent abilities and make new talents. What makes you think they will create a whole new spec?

    The fel caster is called warlock.

  13. #53
    I think I agree that mutilate feels ok at 50 energy because of the 2 combo points and shred at 40 energy to me doesn't, never played WW monk before class trialing one on the pre-patch ptr and same again tiger palm gives 2 chi feels good.

    It would make things feel much faster and smoother, mean more CP spent on FB numbers may not even need too much tuning just from shred giving 2 combo points.

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