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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You saying its "meaningless" is not a fact.




    It's still evidence.




    Yes, which is why Metamorphosis had to be removed from Warlocks in order for Demon Hunters to become a viable class.




    And basic logic should tell you that you can't apply real world logic to a video game.

    Yet here we are (again).
    The problem is classes should be designed around game mechanics then have flavor added onto the abilities after you have a working skeleton to flush them out. Mechs and automatons are terrible for multiplayer games. WoW added a single second health bar to the game in wrath with the mammoth mount and it was considered so utterly op that it was removed from the non combat mount...

    If you take away the mech and take away the robots and focus more on gun play, grenades and maybe a few other contraptions it has some potential.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronometer View Post
    This is the problem I have mainly.
    I don't mind a tech based class per se, ignoring the difficulty in balancing yet another class, I wouldnt mind seeing something like the Medic class from Wildstar.
    Man Wildstar was a great concept with great artwork and systems... but the execution failed so hard...
    I think I've had enough of removing avatars today that feature girls covered in semen. Closing.
    -Darsithis

  3. #243
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Hunters also can use tech gadgets, boy.
    Name a Hunter "tech gadget" that was once a WC3 or HotS Tinker ability.


    Which is your claim which you can't back up, boy.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

    Don't worry, I'm sure you'll ignore it.


    I'm asking you if we should consider polls or not, boy. Is that so hard to understand? I consider it a very easy question, especially for the guy who wants to roleplay the big brain tinker boi. Either you also acknowledge polls of others which contradict your personal opinions like the one which shows us that not having a thematically fitting class is only a minor issue and that gnome and goblin fans are overrepresented on this forum or I ignore your polls. I mean, I don't know in which kind of wish fulfillment fantasy world live in, but I don't pander this kind of shit, so chose one.
    You should certainly consider polls. What an utterly silly question to ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    The problem is classes should be designed around game mechanics then have flavor added onto the abilities after you have a working skeleton to flush them out. Mechs and automatons are terrible for multiplayer games. WoW added a single second health bar to the game in wrath with the mammoth mount and it was considered so utterly op that it was removed from the non combat mount...

    If you take away the mech and take away the robots and focus more on gun play, grenades and maybe a few other contraptions it has some potential.
    You can simply use Druid mechanics for the mech, and add a few of the mech-based abilities we've seen in BFA like Eject and Turbo-charged in order to give the feeling that you're piloting a mech. No need for 2 health bar shenanigans.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Name a Hunter "tech gadget" that was once a WC3 or HotS Tinker ability.




    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

    Don't worry, I'm sure you'll ignore it.




    You should certainly consider polls. What an utterly silly question to ask.
    You should consider gameplay... adding broken mechanics that will be nerfed as the class dies in the dust or becomes goldshire rp tier isn't helpful to the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Name a Hunter "tech gadget" that was once a WC3 or HotS Tinker ability.




    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

    Don't worry, I'm sure you'll ignore it.




    You should certainly consider polls. What an utterly silly question to ask.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You can simply use Druid mechanics for the mech, and add a few of the mech-based abilities we've seen in BFA like Eject and Turbo-charged in order to give the feeling that you're piloting a mech. No need for 2 health bar shenanigans.
    Druids are not really a class you want to emulate... outside of pvp they are seen as useless beyond healers... you can be a tech class but you wont get a mech or robots.

  5. #245
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    You should consider gameplay... adding broken mechanics that will be nerfed as the class dies in the dust or becomes goldshire rp tier isn't helpful to the game.
    What broken mechanics?

    Druids are not really a class you want to emulate... outside of pvp they are seen as useless beyond healers... you can be a tech class but you wont get a mech or robots.
    Uh, I'm not saying you emulate the ENTIRE class, I'm saying you use Druid Shapeshifting mechanics for mech piloting. Interestingly, the WC3 Tinker also used Druid shapeshifting mechanics to turn into a mech.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    What broken mechanics?



    Uh, I'm not saying you emulate the ENTIRE class, I'm saying you use Druid Shapeshifting mechanics for mech piloting. Interestingly, the WC3 Tinker also used Druid shapeshifting mechanics to turn into a mech.
    Druids are not taken to raids and despised in mythic+... their whole mechanic is large hp bars.

  7. #247
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Druids are not taken to raids and despised in mythic+... their whole mechanic is large hp bars.
    But again, we're not talking about making a class mirror, we're ONLY talking about emulating the shapeshifting mechanic for mech piloting.

    You do understand that the Druid's place in current raiding is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about right?

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    But again, we're not talking about making a class mirror, we're ONLY talking about emulating the shapeshifting mechanic for mech piloting.

    You do understand that the Druid's place in current raiding is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about right?
    Except it isn't.... tanking is a role were any variation leads to massive power gaps via its nature. There was an entire expansion were one type of defense trumps the other be it paladins or monks being able to cleanse off massive amounts of damage.

    Out of any role tanks need the most solid finally tuned mechanics not weird abstract ideas.

  9. #249
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Except it isn't.... tanking is a role were any variation leads to massive power gaps via its nature. There was an entire expansion were one type of defense trumps the other be it paladins or monks being able to cleanse off massive amounts of damage.

    Out of any role tanks need the most solid finally tuned mechanics not weird abstract ideas.
    How is the Druid shapeshifting mechanic a weird, abstract idea? It's been in the game since the beginning.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    How is the Druid shapeshifting mechanic a weird, abstract idea? It's been in the game since the beginning.
    I don't really do this whole talking in circles thing. Either you want to talk about this or you just want to drag the conversation out.

  11. #251
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    I don't really do this whole talking in circles thing. Either you want to talk about this or you just want to drag the conversation out.
    Your argument is all over the place friend. First you argued that the Tinker mech mechanic would be a broken mechanic. I countered that Blizzard could simply use Druid mechanics, and you immediately put up the straw man that Druids are terrible, an opinion that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. So truly, what kind of conversation are you trying to have here?

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Name a Hunter "tech gadget" that was once a WC3 or HotS Tinker ability.
    rockets?


    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game

    Don't worry, I'm sure you'll ignore it.
    It is still not a guarantee that the class will be played though. In the past, people advocated for Pandaren as a new playable race. And it kinda made sense and would have been something new and different for the game. In practice though, nobody played them and anime Elves for the Horde and their purple shadow darkness brethren on the alliance are combined multiple times more popular than Pandaren. Even Void Elves, a race which was literally an asspull nobody asked for with basically no lore or real connection to the story is about to overtake Horde and Alliance Pandaren soon, despite being in the game for much shorter and being locked behind an redudant reputation grind and questline while Pandaren can be played immediately. Demon Hunters, a class which you often criticize for taking away abilities from other classes and adding nothing new while also being the least engaging class mechanically is more popular than Monks who are for longer in the game, playable by more races and who are objectively more engaging to play both as tanks and dps while also having a heal spec. And I mean, lets be quite realistic on Demon Hunters, they have two specs in theory but in practice they are a one spec class. Nobody plays Vengeance.

    The experiences of new classes kind of show that what the community will actually end up playing is dark and edgy shit with elves even better if it is based upon a popular Warcraft 3 Anti-Hero/Villain. They will advocate for unique, fitting and diverse ideas and consider them neat. But in the end, they won't play them.


    You should certainly consider polls. What an utterly silly question to ask.
    So do you acknowledge that while the polls are in favor of Tinkers, that other polls also show that Gnome and Goblin Players are wastly overrepresented on this forum and that Gnomes not having a thematically fitting class available to them is a minor concern for people which doesn't explains their lack of popularity, as shown in polls?

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Your argument is all over the place friend. First you argued that the Tinker mech mechanic would be a broken mechanic. I countered that Blizzard could simply use Druid mechanics, and you immediately put up the straw man that Druids are terrible, an opinion that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. So truly, what kind of conversation are you trying to have here?
    You didn't counter you just yelled out shapeshift and didnt explain anything... that isn't a counter its a seizure...

  14. #254
    Don't hate the tinkerer - except that I don't think it would fit well with alle the other classes we have at the moment - I just don't like the idea of more classes in the game
    I hope Blizzard never introduces any more classes
    They should give us more variety in the existing classes with additional specs or increase the scopes of existing specs

  15. #255
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    rockets?
    Please link me to the Hunter and Tinker ability called "Rockets".

    It is still not a guarantee that the class will be played though.
    If you have no interest in the class, why do you care if its played or not? If the class is fun to play as, why should anyone care if its "popular"?

    So do you acknowledge that while the polls are in favor of Tinkers, that other polls also show that Gnome and Goblin Players are wastly overrepresented on this forum and that Gnomes not having a thematically fitting class available to them is a minor concern for people which doesn't explains their lack of popularity, as shown in polls?
    The flaw in your argument is your assumption that people who like Gnomes/Goblins are the same people who PLAY Gnomes/Goblins. For example, I like Gnomes/Goblins, but I don't play as one in WoW.

  16. #256
    Someone never played Warcraft 3, and faced the Tinker Hero......

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    It's vapid, shallow and totally irrelevant but I hate the fucking word Tinker.
    Indeed, but Tinkerer, as in the thread, is much worse.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Your argument is all over the place friend. First you argued that the Tinker mech mechanic would be a broken mechanic. I countered that Blizzard could simply use Druid mechanics, and you immediately put up the straw man that Druids are terrible, an opinion that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. So truly, what kind of conversation are you trying to have here?
    Can you also explain that if the Mech is simply a visual which basically applies what on other classes is their tank passive, how their actual gameplay and active mitigation would work out? You constantly argue about how unique your fantasy of a Tinker would be while shutting down differenciating ideas of how a tinker could be, so you should have an idea about how they would work as a Tank. I mean, what I've seen so far for example your idea of giving them a rocket jump was just ripping off mechanics from other classes.

  19. #259
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    You didn't counter you just yelled out shapeshift and didnt explain anything... that isn't a counter its a seizure...
    Well it's rather difficult to yell when you're typing....

    If your argument is that Tinker mech piloting mechanics would be broken, how is stating that Blizzard could use Druid mechanics not a counter argument? Also you never asked me to explain it, you immediately went into defense mode about how much Druids suck.

  20. #260
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    So just because you like and want something others shouldn't be allowed to not like it?
    It's simple .. people just don't like a class that is summed up by a profession.
    Another person who is deeply confused between what a crafting profession and a class is

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    In my opinion, there is room for the archetype as a class, but not for tinker as a goblin/gnome exclusive thing.

    First, because like it or not, engineering as a profession is heavily related to what a tinker would do. Sure, the profession does not really represent the combat capabilities of a tinker, but it does have that goofy feeling that the tinker concept usually has and when developing that class both the class and the profession should feel compatible, but different at the same time and with minimal overlap.

    Second, because we've seen how over the years more races have some 'out-of-place' technology. Specially draenei and orcs since WoD. So if you make that kind of class, it needs to be something that can fit more than the two comical refliefs that gnomes and goblins are. Ideally each race could have some sort of unique models for some stuff (bots, suits, bombs, turrets...).

    The way i see it, a 'tinker' class would be similar to monks in the sense that they are a class pretty much open to almost every race, not a hero-class, and has multiple roles. It also happens to be a class that could fill some missing spots: new healer class, mail wearer, dual daggers, guns/crossbows/bows.
    So you think a Tinker class would involve beating a boss by crafting guns and goggles? Because that is exactly what you're saying and that is what Engineering does

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