Page 15 of 52 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
16
17
25
... LastLast
  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Its the annoyance of someone with vast knowledge on how the game systems work together talking to someone who is a pie in the sky dreamer.

    I know how awful your ideas are fundamentally so its hard for me to see any benefits to adding them at all.

    A tinker could work as a raw dps class. Just lose the mechs,and automation and make them more of a gunslinger mid ranged class.
    Thank you. I mean, I wouldn't call myself a pro-gamer, though I think I have some understanding of how classes work, especially Tanks as I spend the last few months trying multiple tanks out to decide which appeals to me most in terms of mechanics, visuals and active mitigation. And reading that Tank concept was just so painful. There is NO idea of active mitigation and he is stealing the most unique abilities from Monks, DKs and Demon Hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except you don't base class-based vehicle combat on quest gameplay, you base it around toggle forms similar to Druid shapeshifting. Through that, you get the same effect as piloting a vehicle (i.e. The Pilot enters the mech and they get an entirely new set of abilities specific to the mech). Further, through that mechanic you can add abilities specific to mechs like Eject, Turbocharged, Transforming, etc.

    Physical ranged different than Hunter simply means that the Tinker would be the second physical ranged class and wouldn't be anything like the Hunter class.

    Finally resources doesn't dictate balance. You can make a healing spec that doesn't require mana if that's the theme of the spec. No different than the multiple types of resources that DPS and Tanks use. Science isn't magic, so obviously a science-based healer wouldn't require magic.
    So far, all I saw you doing while conceptionalizing a Tinker Tank was stealing Ox Statue and Gorefriends Grasp, the later one even twice.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Pper View Post
    Don't hate the tinkerer - except that I don't think it would fit well with alle the other classes we have at the moment - I just don't like the idea of more classes in the game
    I hope Blizzard never introduces any more classes
    They should give us more variety in the existing classes with additional specs or increase the scopes of existing specs
    Yes, exactly this. This is the kind of stuff I'd rather have.
    I'd buy that for a dollar.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If you have vast knowledge of the game systems, you're not showing it.




    Except that wouldn't be a Tinker as shown by Blizzard on multiple occasions.
    Ive over a decade clearing all of the hardest difficulties and while not a amazing pvp ive broken 2.2k multiple times. Your concepts really can't be built upon to any successful end...

    Even if they permalocked the class into a mech that goes against blizzards philosophy of player customization they are pushing hard as hell in shadowlands.

  4. #284
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    16,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Now explain to me why cribbing the druid class's defining mechanic would be something Blizzard would feel compelled to do? This isn't like DH Meta where one spec's ability was removed and the spec itself redefined to better fit what the devs' original intent for it was, when the removed ability was intended to fulfill the DH class fantasy at a time when DHs weren't considered for development, this is 'Okay we're going to steal the whole concept of shapeshifting from Druids and copy it over with a fresh coat of paint.' That is the single least-inspired concept I've heard for Tinkers yet, and if I were to read this in an announcement my first response would be, "Okay, I already have a druid at 120, what makes this feel distinct enough to warrant leveling up a new alt?"
    The Druid's defining mechanic is shapeshifting. In other words, a Guardian Druid can shift between bear form, cat form, and Moonkin form with ease. They even have attributes of those forms bleeding into each other. I'm not advocating that for the Tinker. I'm saying to use the base mechanic of toggling between a base form to a mech form to simulate a Tinker piloting a mech.

    Congratulations. You have still provided fuck-all by way of explaining how it would be different.
    You mean other than the fact that a Tinker would be in a mech firing missiles, charges, lasers, and gravity weapons, while a Hunter would be shooting a bow or a gun with their pet? It should be fairly obvious why they're different.

    Okay, I'm going to need you to follow with me for a moment, because apparently this is high-concept stuff.

    You remember Mistweavers? You know the reason why they use a mana bar instead of Energy/Chi like the other two Monk specs? You know why paladins still mainly operate off mana for their heals despite using Holy Power as a mechanic? You know why Resto druids still use mana? You know why literally every healer spec in the game currently uses mana? Because balancing a healer without mana as its primary resource has always, with a 100% track record, resulted in a resounding failure, causing them to go back to mana for that spec mid-development.

    You have so far failed to convince me otherwise beyond offering a whole-cloth stolen concept that makes up the core of an existing class's most notable and unique mechanic, as well as a clear indicator you have no understanding why every healer in the game uses mana as their primary resource.
    Except you failed to mention the real reason why Mistweavers were changed; Blizzard couldn't balance melee (fist weaving) with standard healing (mist weaving). The spec ALWAYS had a mana component to it, and there's no reason a Monk wouldn't use mana to heal, since Mistweaving is using magic. That by the way is why every healing spec uses Mana, because every healing spec is using magic. Obviously, a science-based class wouldn't use mana, and it isn't rocket science to figure out a resource that wouldn't use mana to heal.

    As for failing to convince you, I'm not surprised. You already had your mind made up before we began this conversation.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Ive over a decade clearing all of the hardest difficulties and while not a amazing pvp ive broken 2.2k multiple times. Your concepts really can't be built upon to any successful end...

    Even if they permalocked the class into a mech that goes against blizzards philosophy of player customization they are pushing hard as hell in shadowlands.
    So...literally all druid forms...

    I think the ability to have mech customization would be incredible and completely fit within player customization, similar to the amount of druid forms they've added over the years

  6. #286
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    16,407
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Ive over a decade clearing all of the hardest difficulties and while not a amazing pvp ive broken 2.2k multiple times. Your concepts really can't be built upon to any successful end...

    Even if they permalocked the class into a mech that goes against blizzards philosophy of player customization they are pushing hard as hell in shadowlands.
    Why wouldn't they simply give them the customization options for their forms like the Druid class gets?

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except you failed to mention the real reason why Mistweavers were changed; Blizzard couldn't balance melee (fist weaving) with standard healing (mist weaving). The spec ALWAYS had a mana component to it, and there's no reason a Monk wouldn't use mana to heal, since Mistweaving is using magic. That by the way is why every healing spec uses Mana, because every healing spec is using magic. Obviously, a science-based class wouldn't use mana, and it isn't rocket science to figure out a resource that wouldn't use mana to heal.

    As for failing to convince you, I'm not surprised. You already had your mind made up before we began this conversation.
    It would be for you though, considering that you had to steal off two of the most unique and impactful abilities of Brewmasters and DKs for your concept while not delivering a single reasonable unique one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why wouldn't they simply give them the customization options for their forms like the Druid class gets?
    Because those options where tied to the artifact, which wouldn't be available for Tinkers.

  8. #288
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    16,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Valrok View Post
    So...literally all druid forms...

    I think the ability to have mech customization would be incredible and completely fit within player customization, similar to the amount of druid forms they've added over the years
    Not to mention that mech customizations could be craftable engineering items, giving the profession a little boost thanks to the Tinker class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Because those options where tied to the artifact, which wouldn't be available for Tinkers.
    Actually no. Druid customizations also are based on hair and skin coloring of the character, glyphs, and various trinkets and items.

    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/druid...-color-options

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    It would be for you though, considering that you had to steal off two of the most unique and impactful abilities of Brewmasters and DKs for your concept while not delivering a single reasonable unique one.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because those options where tied to the artifact, which wouldn't be available for Tinkers.
    As if they couldn't add a comparable amount simply because there was an artifact at one point?

    Come on that's an incredibly flimsy argument

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    I really don't understand a community that hates variety so much. A technical based class with steampunk vibes is usually a staple in many fantasy games and its a clear missing component in WoW despite the myriad of technologies the world offers. Yet anytime someone suggests a desire for the class or even comes up with creative ways to implement it half the community it seems nearly has a stroke with the amount of rage they bring.
    I mean in reality it doesn't have to be called tinkerer, but i do think the game would benefit from a class that embodies a mechanical steam punk type vibe.
    For immersion and "class" fantasy you could always go mechagnome and get engineering. Because thats the closest thing you will ever get.
    Just because some people "desire" a new class or even a very certain one does NOT mean it is a good idea or in any way good for the game.
    It has nothing to do with people raging but being tired of the same bs ppl post on message boards. And its not even about the idea itself, but how
    people who want those classes think that this idea is absolutely brilliant and there is no reason not to do it...at some point people are just done with serious answers concerning threads like this.

    At his point blizzard has to figure out a way to make wow work again. To make classes work and being fun and engaging again...because many aren't at this point or even in the beta. Wasting ressources on a new class which would mean just a lot MORE work in case of balancing, scaling, tweaking talents, sets etc etc is just NOT a good idea.

  11. #291
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Somewhere where canon still exists
    Posts
    8,190
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I can almost guarantee you Blizzard won't make vehicle combat a key focus for an entire class given how badly it's generally received when it's made a quest mechanic (and how badly it was received as a major dungeon mechanic in Occulus and a raid mechanic in Maly). 'Physical ranged different from Hunter' explains nothing, especially because Marksman is almost completely a physical ranged spec after the Legion rework. 'Manaless science-based healing,' again, provides no explanation on how it would actually function from a gameplay perspective. Also, a healer not confined by mana sounds like it would be a Sisyphean nightmare to balance.

    The technology theme doesn't mean anything. A marksman hunter with Lone Wolf and Engineering has a strong technology theme. A warrior with the ToC vibrosword and Engineering has a technology theme. If you want Tinker to happen, it needs to feel distinct from a character with a high investment in Engineering and you have to be able to explain how it's different. Three-word phrases do not explain how they would be different any more than if someone defending Monk in the day would have explained 'They're different from Rogue because they have a kung fu theme.'

    - - - Updated - - -


    I don't fuckin' know, man, that's why I'm saying people who actively want it are going to have to do a good job explaining what makes it different from Engineering. I'm just saying it if happens and it manages to feel different from Engineering, I wouldn't be opposed to it--ball's in their court to sell me on the idea.
    Engineer is a crafting profession...it makes guns and goggles and stuff

    Tinker could go several different ways...the mech route...the turret route like GW2 Engineer...could just use guns and gadgets like what Engineer used to have but hasn't been present in several expansions...could combine all 3.

    I personally would like to see Tinker have a mech tank spec, a ranged (perhaps with turrets) dps spec, and could do a healer spec

    It could easily fill in several neglected areas...like there hasn't been a ranged dps added to the game since launch and can give them mail armor and they can wield ranged weapons, both of which have few users of those items.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually no. Druid customizations also are based on hair and skin coloring of the character, glyphs, and various trinkets and items.

    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/druid...-color-options
    You also still owe me an answer to my post where I actually looked into your Tinker concept and explained why it is shit, not even a tank concept and lacking any unique ideas and instead ripping off other classes.

    And yeah, so they have different color pallets and glyphs which change certain forms into models also used by mobs encountered in the world for their traveling form. The core customization of the actual combat forms of Druids where still tied to the artifact.

  13. #293
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    16,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Valrok View Post
    As if they couldn't add a comparable amount simply because there was an artifact at one point?

    Come on that's an incredibly flimsy argument
    Unfortunately, they're all incredibly flimsy arguments.

  14. #294
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Get off my lawn!
    Posts
    10,586
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Because we've had that topic a gazillion times, and yet, there are two new threads every day. It's mind numbing.
    Even as someone that wants (and has asked for) Tinkers, I agree with this 100%. Its idiotic how many people make topics about them that ultimately say the same goddamn things.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  15. #295
    I don't really find the class as described using mechs etc particularly interesting. And without that it's not much of a "tinkerer", particularly when the actual tinkering is really the engineering profession.

    I could see an opening for another gun/archery based class that doesn't use pets, but again, that's not a tinkerer.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Even as someone that wants (and has asked for) Tinkers, I agree with this 100%. Its idiotic how many people make topics about them that ultimately say the same goddamn things.
    It would help if the Tinker community wouldn't be lead by a very outspeaken minority which acts rather entitled and authoritarian when it comes to the topic and shuts down any ideas which doesn't fits their concept which reads like it was written by people who don't know how this game actually works outside of doing simple world quests.

  17. #297
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    16,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    You also still owe me an answer to my post where I actually looked into your Tinker concept and explained why it is shit, not even a tank concept and lacking any unique ideas and instead ripping off other classes.
    Once you claim that everything I did in my class post is simply "ripping off other classes", I don't feel that there's a discussion to be had.

    And yeah, so they have different color pallets and glyphs which change certain forms into models also used by mobs encountered in the world for their traveling form. The core customization of the actual combat forms of Druids where still tied to the artifact.
    Different color pallets, glyphs that change forms into different models, and items that alter the appearance of the Druid to match animals in the wild ARE examples of customization. There's zero reason to believe a mech based Tinker wouldn't get similar options, especially given the wide variety of mechs in WoW.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why wouldn't they simply give them the customization options for their forms like the Druid class gets?
    It would be a massive amount of work for something only one class can benefit from. So far the only other class that has that luxury is DH with warglavies.

    I don't honestly know if blizzard could do it all again they would give druids forms again if they knew how big transmog would become.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Once you claim that everything I did in my class post is simply "ripping off other classes", I don't feel that there's a discussion to be had.
    You have literally two abilities in your Siegecrafter concept which rip off Gorefiends Grasp in terms of pulling packs of mobs into one locations and one ability which ripps off the Ox Statue by having a Turret taunt mobs. Both abilities are among the most unique and useful signatur abilities. Especially Gorefiends Grasp in quite a powerful CD for Blood DKs and you have given it your tinker twice with the benefit of also doing damage because I guess lfr hero wants to get into mythics or something like that. If you don't understand how your abilities rip-off other tanks unique support abilites while failing to deliver a concept for how their active mitigation works.

    Fuck, do you even know what active mitigation is? Do you know how Tanks work in this game?

    Different color pallets, glyphs that change forms into different models, and items that alter the appearance of the Druid to match animals in the wild ARE examples of customization. There's zero reason to believe a mech based Tinker wouldn't get similar options, especially given the wide variety of mechs in WoW.
    I mean, there is also no reason to assume we will get Tinkers, considering that the moment to include them would have been the initially tech focussed Warlords of Draenor.

  20. #300
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Beach City
    Posts
    16,407
    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    It would be a massive amount of work for something only one class can benefit from. So far the only other class that has that luxury is DH with warglavies.

    I don't honestly know if blizzard could do it all again they would give druids forms again if they knew how big transmog would become.
    Like undead forms for Death Knights?

    Giving each Monk race special martial arts animations for their abilities?

    Giving each Shaman race their own unique totems?

    Giving each Paladin race their own unique racial mount?

    And of course, Druids getting a unique form for each race, and multiple customization options for their forms.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •