Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[arkanon]

Who said that Tinkers constructs won't be magic infused? I can see reason for there being both sides to it to be honest. Otherwise the class would only fit Gnomes/Goblins. Adding the magic infusion aspect similar to Artificers in D&D would open the class to many more races.

I think this exact situation is what leads to a lot of the frustration, and i have touched on it before. Some of the tinker crowd insist that there is already a baseline for what a tinker is and is not - and that is ridiculous for a class not implemented into the game. I have used this analogy before; using a few random crumbs as evidence that you have a complete cake, AND that you know the exact ingredients is not a good argument - especially when many of those crumbs are 20+ years old, and from an entirely different game.

Opinions and fan theories are absolutely fine - but to pretend they are factual and to claim to hold some authority over what a tinker is and is not, in the context of a playable class, is asinine.

[Eapoe]

Who said that Tinkers constructs won't be magic infused? I can see reason for there being both sides to it to be honest. Otherwise the class would only fit Gnomes/Goblins. Adding the magic infusion aspect similar to Artificers in D&D would open the class to many more races.

Sure, they could be; but then they wouldn’t be a Tinker class. They’d be closer to like Technomancer. That could also work. I’m not really against the class (I’d prefer balance to existing classes before we get a new one though to be honest), but I was mainly just pointing out if Blizz goes by the lore of races that actually show natural talent for it then it would be very skewed towards Alliance having more races that could do it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Sure, yet he is considered a prodigy. He also used the technology that Garrosh brought with him that was designed by, guess who, Goblins.

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What did Blood Elves build? Their “technology” is actually based off of Arcane magic.
Same with the Nightborne. All of their constructs are magic infused, not technological advancement of automatons.

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What’s false? As I stated with the other people, the Horde races technology is all magic based. Constructs of the BEs and NB are infused and automated with magic. Trolls don’t really have anything that stands out as tech related. Same with the Orcs. Tauren are nature based creatures who have shown to have no real tech beyond pulleys and levers for their lifts. Forsaken are dead humans so my point still stands there.
The most tech they had before Goblins were the zeppelins for travel points, with gunships being from Goblin design.

It literally doesn't matter what the construct is made of. They built the golems that wander around Silvermoon and the surrounding areas. It means the blood elves are capable of technological wonders. The Nightborne ALSO built all their automatons that we see in game. Disregarding the races I mentioned is just you moving the goalposts.

[Trollokdamus]

asinine rambling

Right. Okay. I see you're incapable of being respectful or polite when talking to someone so I'm not gonna waste my time on you any further and continue this "discussion". Try being an adult next time you communicate with people. Have a nice day, sir.

They hinted at mechagnomes with the little mechagnome area in Boralus. Why would that area exist in BFA if it was an afterthought? And considering they were making allied races based off every race what on Earth do you think they were planning for gnomes? I mean it could be possible that they were intending to full mechagnomes and half-assed it at the last minute or aftering coming up with the full idea of Mechagon they decided to change it but I highly doubt they had a non mechagnome idea for them. Vulpera were clearly planned as an allied race way early in the development cycle. What else would Alliance have gotten? There's no hints at any other gnome sized race in BFA but the mechagnome area in Boralus.

I didn't claim that Mechagon or Mechagnomes were an afterthought, I said that making them an allied race was (likely) an afterthought. And I gave my reasons why it seemed that way to me in my previous post. As for what else the Alliance could have gotten instead of them, I don't really have an answer.

[ArkantosChampion]

This tinkerer is our bro

[Dancaris]

It literally doesn't matter what the construct is made of. They built the golems that wander around Silvermoon and the surrounding areas. It means the blood elves are capable of technological wonders. The Nightborne ALSO built all their automatons that we see in game. Disregarding the races I mentioned is just you moving the goalposts.

But that constructs move and "live" with magic, and not with steam, liquid or electricity. Its just like mage elementals. Its magic, not technology.

[Eapoe]

It literally doesn't matter what the construct is made of. They built the golems that wander around Silvermoon and the surrounding areas. It means the blood elves are capable of technological wonders. The Nightborne ALSO built all their automatons that we see in game. Disregarding the races I mentioned is just you moving the goalposts.

No, it means they are capable of molding pieces of metal to look like pieces of a body and then infuse it with magic to make it alive. That is not technology.
If a race makes a statue and then imbues it with life that is magic. If a race builds a mechanical body with gears, springs, oil, etc, that looks and functions like a living being then that is technology.
If a race builds a sphere and fills it with magic to detonate, that is a magical bomb.
If a race puts gunpowder, springs, and mechanical gadgets together that explodes then that is a technological based bomb.
There are very distinct differences between them. The differences show that (a) those races do not (so far) show any propensity to be Tinkers, and (b) with the use of magic they have no need to try and further it.

[Ielenia]

Sure, yet he is considered a prodigy. He also used the technology that Garrosh brought with him that was designed by, guess who, Goblins.

And? What's your point? Did you completely ignore everything I wrote in my post, and focused solely on that single sentence at the top of my post, while ignoring the rest that explains how this "they must invent" is not only a meaningless, but incorrect assumption?

[TheRevenantHero]

No, it means they are capable of molding pieces of metal to look like pieces of a body and then infuse it with magic to make it alive. That is not technology.
If a race makes a statue and then imbues it with life that is magic. If a race builds a mechanical body with gears, springs, oil, etc, that looks and functions like a living being then that is technology.
If a race builds a sphere and fills it with magic to detonate, that is a magical bomb.
If a race puts gunpowder, springs, and mechanical gadgets together that explodes then that is a technological based bomb.
There are very distinct differences between them. The differences show that (a) those races do not (so far) show any propensity to be Tinkers, and (b) with the use of magic they have no need to try and further it.

You're literally just pushing the goalposts to a place they can't be reached. The automatons the blood elves and nightborne have are not just "metal slapped together and filled with magic." They are working machines with complicated parts that provides them with independent locomotion. If the blood elves and nightborne don't count for some stupid reason, draenei don't count either.

So your point about nightborne and blood elves not showing any propensity to be Tinkers is invalid. Just because they didn't build the things according to your arbitrary rules doesn't mean they didn't create technological wonders. Also, mana bombs are not just spheres filled with magic. All you're doing is showing you don't know anything about the lore and have a warped(and incorrect) mentality for what a Tinker should be.

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But that constructs move and "live" with magic, and not with steam, liquid or electricity. Its just like mage elementals. Its magic, not technology.

No. It is NOTHING like conjured elementals. It's magitech, a trope used in a lot of high fantasy stories. As I said to Eapoe, the components you listed aren't a requirement for Tinker made objects. The automatons had to have been built with a complicated frame so that when they were powered by either magic or maybe some kind of crystal, the thing would be ale to walk around and engage in combat. It's the foundation for blood elf, nightborne, and draenei technology. Saying it's not technology just because they're not using steam, liquid, or electricity is positively absurd.

[Xeenith]

I for one would be much more interested with a "technomancer" class than a "tinker".
much more possibilities for abilities, a gun with moded clips with specific elements for added effect (each it's own ability with a short duration and CD), and also much more races that could be one.
and maybe a spec with a medigun (and manabar since a healer need mana to balance them)

I would try to create a tinker is there was one that is made,but with only goblin/gnome available, I'd not play it much as I really don't like those races, and when you have lots of alts you tend to play the most those you like better

[Dancaris]

You're literally just pushing the goalposts to a place they can't be reached. The automatons the blood elves and nightborne have are not just "metal slapped together and filled with magic." They are working machines with complicated parts that provides them with independent locomotion. If the blood elves and nightborne don't count for some stupid reason, draenei don't count either.

So your point about nightborne and blood elves not showing any propensity to be Tinkers is invalid. Just because they didn't build the things according to your arbitrary rules doesn't mean they didn't create technological wonders. Also, mana bombs are not just spheres filled with magic. All you're doing is showing you don't know anything about the lore and have a warped(and incorrect) mentality for what a Tinker should be.

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No. It is NOTHING like conjured elementals. It's magitech, a trope used in a lot of high fantasy stories. As I said to Eapoe, the components you listed aren't a requirement for Tinker made objects. The automatons had to have been built with a complicated frame so that when they were powered by either magic or maybe some kind of crystal, the thing would be ale to walk around and engage in combat. It's the foundation for blood elf, nightborne, and draenei technology. Saying it's not technology just because they're not using steam, liquid, or electricity is positively absurd.

Its just a technomage, not tinker. If you want to name it - your deal. But Gelbin and Gazlowe are not using magic. Overspark, Pozzik, Grapplehammer are not using magic too. They literally using engines and powder, electricity and steam. And for reference: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker
And for your concept - https://wow.gamepedia.com/Techno_mage

[Swnem]

P.S. Wish i was so hypocrite and mad, to go around and just like tinker-fans do, image me popping in EACH possible class thread and say clown things like "Your class idea has 0%, why? couz my tinker is superior"

You are literally doing that right now on this thread and accusing people who don't do that that they do just cause they like Tinker. YOU are part of the problem. You and those that say it's all Teriz fault and then you go around and do the same thing and try to drag others into your nonsense wars. No thanks. You are not any better.

[Triceron]

You are literally doing that right now on this thread and accusing people who don't do that that they do just cause they like Tinker. YOU are part of the problem. You and those that say it's all Teriz fault and then you go around and do the same thing and try to drag others into your nonsense wars. No thanks. You are not any better.

I think the issue is more of tribalism in these very forums.

If you're a Tinker fan here, you're going to be lumped with the extreme Tinker fans that argue against other class concepts; since there's really distinction made between the two in terms of nomenclature; they're both Tinker fans. It's probably best that you distance yourself from that term here and simply consider yourself an outlier 'Tinker enthusiast', because the term 'Tinker fan' is already associated with that of the vocal few who have invaded other class threads and argued them to death. This is not really your problem, but something I think you'd better come to terms with when addressing this particular forum and its history of years of overexposure to the Tinker class discussions.

There is no casual enthusiasm of Tinkers here. No one views it or any new thread with the hopes of positive, mature discussion. This forum already has a divisive vocal minority on both sides ready and waiting to pounce.

When you mentioned 'trying to drag others', honestly speaking there are no others because they tend to say one or two things and get completely drowned out or have their arguments twisted to fit certain narratives. It all ends up being Left vs Right till the discussion fades away and a new thread starts.

[TheRevenantHero]

Its just a technomage, not tinker. If you want to name it - your deal. But Gelbin and Gazlowe are not using magic. Overspark, Pozzik, Grapplehammer are not using magic too. They literally using engines and powder, electricity and steam. And for reference: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker
And for your concept - https://wow.gamepedia.com/Techno_mage

The link you posted doesn't define Tinker as making items strictly from certain materials and power sources. So there is absolutely nothing saying that nightborne and sin'dorei aren't tinkers since the RPG section of that link is 100% non-canon.

As for technomage, it seems like it's just a name for a tinker that uses magitech. So....you're wrong about BOTH your examples.

[Swnem]

I think the issue is more of tribalism in these very forums.

If you're a Tinker fan here, you're going to be lumped with the extreme Tinker fans that argue against other class concepts; since there's really distinction made between the two in terms of nomenclature; they're both Tinker fans. It's probably best that you distance yourself from that term here and simply consider yourself an outlier 'Tinker enthusiast', because the term 'Tinker fan' is already associated with that of the vocal few who have invaded other class threads and argued them to death. This is not really your problem, but something I think you'd better come to terms with when addressing this particular forum and its history of years of overexposure to the Tinker class discussions.

There is no casual enthusiasm of Tinkers here. No one views it or any new thread with the hopes of positive, mature discussion. This forum already has a divisive vocal minority on both sides ready and waiting to pounce.

When you mentioned 'trying to drag others', honestly speaking there are no others because they tend to say one or two things and get completely drowned out or have their arguments twisted to fit certain narratives. It all ends up being Left vs Right till the discussion fades away and a new thread starts.

I believe you are right. It's very unfortunate.

[Ethas]

Because tinkerer is a joke that went too far and need not be implemented in a fantasy based mmo.

[TheRevenantHero]

I think the issue is more of tribalism in these very forums.

If you're a Tinker fan here, you're going to be lumped with the extreme Tinker fans that argue against other class concepts; since there's really distinction made between the two in terms of nomenclature; they're both Tinker fans. It's probably best that you distance yourself from that term here and simply consider yourself an outlier 'Tinker enthusiast', because the term 'Tinker fan' is already associated with that of the vocal few who have invaded other class threads and argued them to death. This is not really your problem, but something I think you'd better come to terms with when addressing this particular forum and its history of years of overexposure to the Tinker class discussions.

There is no casual enthusiasm of Tinkers here. No one views it or any new thread with the hopes of positive, mature discussion. This forum already has a divisive vocal minority on both sides ready and waiting to pounce.

When you mentioned 'trying to drag others', honestly speaking there are no others because they tend to say one or two things and get completely drowned out or have their arguments twisted to fit certain narratives. It all ends up being Left vs Right till the discussion fades away and a new thread starts.

It's not even that many people that make tinker threads utterly unbearable. It's literally always the same 3-4 people that spew double standards, move the goalposts so far they may as well be on Mars, and outright refuse to admit they're wrong even when hard evidence proves them wrong. I'd love to have civil discussion about Tinkers but those 3-4 people see a Tinker thread and descend upon it like piranhas on a wounded animal. Then thread turns into 40 pages of people trying to get their point across while those 3-4 individuals spew nonsense over and over. It's really unfortunate, honestly.

[FossilFree]

The link you posted doesn't define Tinker as making items strictly from certain materials and power sources. So there is absolutely nothing saying that nightborne and sin'dorei aren't tinkers since the RPG section of that link is 100% non-canon.

As for technomage, it seems like it's just a name for a tinker that uses magitech. So....you're wrong about BOTH your examples.

A magitek "tinker" would actually be really cool and completely separate from the engineering profession, I could get on board with that for sure!


https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_VI)

[TheRevenantHero]

A magitek "tinker" would actually be really cool and completely separate from the engineering profession, I could get on board with that for sure!


https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...al_Fantasy_VI)

I think if magitech was used more as a focus, it would absolutely give Tinker more of an identity that would absolutely separate it from the engineering profession. That way gnomes and goblins can branch out with their gadgets and the spotlight could also include blood elves, nightborne, and draenei(both normal and lightforged).

[Icelin]

Engineer classes are always extremely boring. This is pretty much what a Tinker class would embody. If they really wanted to add the class. I imagine they would. Personally, it's usually always the last class I make if I even make it. (In any game) It always turns out incredibly boring. I can barely stand hunter. It's that boring, but it's meant to be that easy. (At least we can gather pets.)

Another thing when I think of "Tinker" why not just give these skill/spells to a hunter spec? Guessing turrets and stuff?

Speaking of "magi" I would prefer something a long the lines of a Mage. Or anything to do with runes/magic. As long as the new class would be ranged that's pretty much the most important thing.