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  1. #121
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    Tinker or Tinkererererererer? You decide.

    Anyway, for the love of God, no more classes. Demon hunters are already profoundly redundant, and does anybody really care about monks at this stage?
    Demon Hunters were profoundly redundant because their design space was occupied by Warlocks and Rogues. Add to this the fact that Demon Hunters took an ability from an existing class in order to be viable.

    Monks also felt redundant because they were an agility based class that used energy and a resource similar to Rogues. It also didn't help that both of these classes were melee when the community wanted a ranged class.

    The Tinker won't have that problem. They won't take abilities from existing classes like Demon Hunters did, and they're not another agility-based melee class. They'll be ranged and use a theme that's largely absent within the current class lineup.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The Tinker won't have that problem. They won't take abilities from existing classes like Demon Hunters did, and they're not another agility-based melee class. They'll be ranged and use a theme that's largely absent within the current class lineup.
    Demon Hunters are actively played by 4.9% of the population, which is very high for a new class. I don't see that as being a problem.

    New gameplay isn't the singular thing that everyone wants to see out of a new class. I think the Demon Hunter somewhat proves this. The Demon Hunter shines because of its theme and aesthetic in the game.

    That's why I think Class Skins are far superior to having to add a new class moving forward. Just have Blizzard focus on adding new Talents to spice up each class. Why settle with one class when we can have 3-10 new ones?

  3. #123
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Demon Hunters are actively played by 4.9% of the population, which is very high for a new class. I don't see that as being a problem.

    New gameplay isn't the singular thing that everyone wants to see out of a new class. I think the Demon Hunter somewhat proves this. The Demon Hunter shines because of its theme and aesthetic in the game.

    The quote I was responding to was complaining about how redundant the DH class felt, not about class population.

    And based on multiple posts in multiple forums, people don’t want a new class taking abilities from existing classes, and they don’t want another melee class.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Tinkers would be a awesome class, I'm tired of edgy shit.
    Edgy shit SELLS!

    Why do you think Monks are so unpopular? Old Kung-fu movies, words of wisdom, and a general whimsical theme, are not things that people enjoy these days.

  5. #125
    Because people hate adding new things to the game. They are boring.
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  6. #126
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I feel like most people are merely ambivalent to the idea of Tinkers, and would rather something they like more. Frankly if certain fans of Tinkers weren't so obnoxious about hijacking threads, it probably wouldn't be as hated.
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  7. #127
    Easy answer.

    It is a damn terrible idea.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The quote I was responding to was complaining about how redundant the DH class felt, not about class population.

    They don’t want another melee class.
    Vocal minority. If you're not talking about class population and addressing what people want, then those people you're talking about aren't really putting their money where their mouth is.

  9. #129
    I dont think its hate, its more of a feeling of annoyance from the countless "leak" threads that turned a good idea into a wet dream meme class.

  10. #130
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Vocal minority. If you're not talking about class population and addressing what people want, then those people you're talking about aren't really putting their money where their mouth is.
    Isn’t Hunter one of the most popular classes in the game?

    The last three new classes have been melee, people want a new class with at least one ranged DPS. We have examples of Tinker characters in WoW not only using ranged abilities, but also requiring guns.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Isn’t Hunter one of the most popular classes in the game?
    It's one of the most popular classes in Classic right now. 3rd past Warrior and Mage.

    The last three new classes have been melee, people want a new class with at least one ranged DPS.
    Which is why Class Skins would be way more effective than adding a Tinker class that's heavily based on War3 Tinker and Heroes of the Storm Gazlowe, which are primarily Melee characters.

    You could have up to 6 new ranged classes all alongside a Tinker.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-07-24 at 06:39 PM.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Demon Hunters were profoundly redundant because their design space was occupied by Warlocks and Rogues. Add to this the fact that Demon Hunters took an ability from an existing class in order to be viable.

    Monks also felt redundant because they were an agility based class that used energy and a resource similar to Rogues. It also didn't help that both of these classes were melee when the community wanted a ranged class.

    The Tinker won't have that problem. They won't take abilities from existing classes like Demon Hunters did, and they're not another agility-based melee class. They'll be ranged and use a theme that's largely absent within the current class lineup.
    I agree with you that, thematically at least, tinkers won't have the inherent obsolescence associated with DH's (and to a lesser degree, monks). If we must have new classes, a ranged class would at least be a novelty.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Necromancer = Unholy Death Knight (Army of the Dead)
    Dark Ranger = Marksman Hunter (Black Arrow)
    Spellbreaker and Warden = Demon Hunters... which incidentally can only be Night Elves and Blood Elves. (Imprison, Consume Magic, Blur)
    Not sure what a Spellsword is in Warcraft... I would have guessed they would be Spellbreakers.
    Like Priest=Paladin or Warlock=Demon Hunter?
    Marksman Hunters don't have Black Arrow as an ability.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I feel like most people are merely ambivalent to the idea of Tinkers, and would rather something they like more. Frankly if certain fans of Tinkers weren't so obnoxious about hijacking threads, it probably wouldn't be as hated.
    Basically this. I mean, I like Machinists in FF14 and I certainly would play a tinker if they use cool machines and the gameplay is fun and viable. But I am highly annoyed by the tinker fanbase, with certain parts of them excibiting highly entitled and authoritarian personalities.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post


    Basically this. I mean, I like Machinists in FF14 and I certainly would play a tinker if they use cool machines and the gameplay is fun and viable. But I am highly annoyed by the tinker fanbase, with certain parts of them excibiting highly entitled and authoritarian personalities.
    This. The last point 1000%. One sided discussions with the same 1/2 people storming into every tinker thread and making it all about themselves has worm thin for a lot of people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I feel like most people are merely ambivalent to the idea of Tinkers, and would rather something they like more. Frankly if certain fans of Tinkers weren't so obnoxious about hijacking threads, it probably wouldn't be as hated.
    1250% this. So much this.

  15. #135
    I am Murloc! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    Edgy shit SELLS!

    Why do you think Monks are so unpopular? Old Kung-fu movies, words of wisdom, and a general whimsical theme, are not things that people enjoy these days.
    You cut me deep! lol. True edge does sell when it's done right and so do anything else if done right. I believe if they present a tinker class in the right way it would be cool....knowing blizz they will fail in a way to make it presentable.

  16. #136
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    I agree with you that, thematically at least, tinkers won't have the inherent obsolescence associated with DH's (and to a lesser degree, monks). If we must have new classes, a ranged class would at least be a novelty.
    Yeah, I also think that players want a class that will compete with Hunters for ranged weapons. Fortunately there’s multiple Tinker characters in WoW that exhibit this concept.

    Also I’m sure engineering users would appreciate another class purchasing crafted guns.

  17. #137
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    I don't hate tinkers, I just don't have faith in blizzard that they can make a cool class without ignoring every other class. WoW has 12 classes that are all engaging to play. Each time a new class is added, dk's, monks and DH's, cool, new, and unique abilities are reserved for them to differentiate them from the current classes. I'm not talking about the specifics of the ability, like what type of dmg it does, but more so mechanically. Blizzard tends to make the new class cool while sidelining existing classes, which is why I can't get on board with a new class.

    Honestly, unless you've played all 36 specs, you don't really get to talk about what should be added or not. People need to play every spec before they can demand a new class because there are so many options out there already. It just reminds me of some spoiled brat when they constantly nag about wanting a new class, but only have 4-5 characters are max level. I have all 12 classes at max level and try to play them extensively, but I don't have the time to thoroughly do that. I've played about 25-26 specs this expansion and a lot of them are fun in their own ways. What annoys me is when people refuse to play a new class because they don't think it looks fun, yet they still demand a new class.

    I'm more on board for a 4th spec for all current classes than for blizzard to implement a new class. Sure it's more work, but that way the preexisting classes get the attention they deserve and everyone would be happy.
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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    You cut me deep! lol. True edge does sell when it's done right and so do anything else if done right. I believe if they present a tinker class in the right way it would be cool....knowing blizz they will fail in a way to make it presentable.
    I have to agree here.

    THey kinda dug themselves in the hole when they decided to take the Steampunk aesthetic decided to make it more like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. Not hating on the aesthetic, I think it works perfectly in games like Hearthstone where they really take it to the next level, and in some zones like Gnomer and Mechagon where the look is very unique to Warcraft. But when it comes to a class with that look in your face every time you play your character, I just think it's too much.

    It's not going to be easy to make it cool or presentable as a class.

  19. #139
    The Insane Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Like Priest=Paladin or Warlock=Demon Hunter?
    Marksman Hunters don't have Black Arrow as an ability.
    But they used to. It was such a terrible ability that they replaced it with a revised Serpent Sting.

    If Blizzard wants to do Dark Rangers, just give MM Hunters back Black Arrow and give them Wailing Arrow from HotS.

    Problem solved.

  20. #140
    Not that i hate them, I've just never seen a version that makes sense. All the versions I've seen have basically been a gadget themed hunter for ranged, a cross between rogues and shamans for melee, I've never seen a healer spec that made sense, and the tank specs have all been some version of a mechsuit.

    None of them have been interesting (yes i know that's subjective) from what I've seen. They've just been the edgy steampunk version of stuff already in the game.

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