Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[agentsi]

What do you mean "from within"? The forces I mentioned are not native to Azeroth or to a living being. They are located outside of Azeroth. Magic-users can readily access them because they have an established connection to these forces and are trained to make use of it. It is equivalent to a Tinker (or whatever else a tech user might be called) always having their gadgets by their side.

You're trolling, I get it. Want to use Thrall as an example for your logic? Go for it. He is the first character that I can think of lore-wise, to lose his connection to his preferred affinity. No one else comes to mind, and google didn't help either. And engineers literally build everything tinkers do, outside of mechs. Stop reaching.

[Teriz]

A single weapon is not the same thing as jumping inside of a Gundam. No matter how you try to spin it, it isn't remotely the same. Even when we kill the King (tinker) in Mechagon, he jumps out of the mech and dies in one hit.

How is that any different than when a Druid dies in animal form?

They are never going to allow a class, who's entire basis is sitting inside of a machine while the hero/person itself is 100% worthless.

Except that's not what you just said. You said that we already beat his mech form, so he dies. Again, how is that different than what happens with a Druid in animal form?

Just stop. Your logic is so extremely biased and flawed, it's borderline worrisome.

Says the poster who makes up ridiculous nonsense because they're too afraid to admit that they simply hate the concept. That's all you have to say; "I hate Tinkers", and go about your business. Embarrassing yourself with silliness like what you posted above does no one any favors.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Opinions don't need validation by you or anyone else.

Okay? Why did you feel the need to tell me that?

[Kithelle]

Nope, engineering is often referred to as tinkering. so Not, very clearly not thinking of a different game. Try again bucko.

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Outside force? Those things you mentioned, are from within. They're able to control and use them and generate them without first building a metal contraption to sit in. You're REALLY stretching the idea of magic-users here. And very poorly at that.

Engineer crafts guns and goggles...Tinker is a class which could do a lot of cool things like ride mechs or build turrets...use lots of technological abilities

So yes you're confused

[agentsi]

Engineer crafts guns and goggles...Tinker is a class which could do a lot of cool things like ride mechs or build turrets...use lots of technological abilities

So yes you're confused

Nope. You can pretend to be correct all you want, but you aren't the creator of WoW or it's lore/class/professions. Tinker, engineering, tinkering, all are intertwined with one another. Always have been, always will be. Engineers have often been called tinkers in-game throughout various quests/professions. Keep trying, but just because you "want" it to be correct, doesn't mean it is.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131563/tinkers-kit

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Tinker_(engineering)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker_(engineering)

[Kithelle]

Nope. You can pretend to be correct all you want, but you aren't the creator of WoW or it's lore/class/professions. Tinker, engineering, tinkering, all are intertwined with one another. Always have been, always will be. Engineers have often been called tinkers in-game throughout various quests/professions. Keep trying, but just because you "want" it to be correct, doesn't mean it is.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131563/tinkers-kit

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Tinker_(engineering)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker_(engineering)

So? So just because it shares a similar name has nothing to do with the class...a profession that crafts goggles and guns isn't the same as what Tinker can be.

That would be like saying Enchanting and Mage are the same because they both use magic.

Just because some Engineers are called tinkers doesn't mean the Tinker class would be the same as the Engineer profession in any way.

You're very confused...you're confusing a crafting profession with a combat class

[agentsi]

So? So just because it shares a similar name has nothing to do with the class...a profession that crafts goggles and guns isn't the same as what Tinker can be.

That would be like saying Enchanting and Mage are the same because they both use magic.

Just because some Engineers are called tinkers doesn't mean the Tinker class would be the same as the Engineer profession in any way.

You're very confused...you're confusing a crafting profession with a combat class

lol Stretch as you may, it will never happen. Your logic is beyond flawed. And you have a weird cognitive dissonance in regards to this. Even though there is data telling you you're wrong, you choose to ignore it, all while trying to twist other classes/ideas/professions.

Enchanters aren't using the same magic as a mage. Tinkers and engineers are using/building the EXACT same things. Mechanical, bombs, tools, googles, mechs that you ride in ( mounts ), engineers make ALL of that. But... Those aren't things you think a tinker class. Odd. Seeing as how that is how blizzard describes them.

Tinkers (or tinkerers and tinkologists) are engineers mostly represented by gnomes, goblins, and dwarves of the Alliance, Horde, and the Venture Company.

Good luck being weirdly in denial about something so simple. Considering you have zero data/logic to support the idea of tinker as being a class, and not a profession.

[Shaetha]

Most people don't care about tinkers themselves. It's just that people are tired of having to look at them on these forums. That said, I'm all for another class on agi daggers and/or ranged weapons. It's lame that only one class can use either, so I would hope they would use those in particular, but I also think warglaives are a waste of time because they're never* going to be given to another class.

In other words, people are literally complaining about lack of variety... in forum threads.


P.S. If they do add it, it's definitely going to be tinker, not tinkerer. It certainly won't be Machinist or Engineer. Those names are taken, and it feels like the wrong flavor for WoW anyway. It's also worth mentioning that engineer is very vague word that means nothing on its own.

*another class having warglaives would be some bullshit. I think the only thing they make sense for are NE Warriors, but unless they change weapons to share primaries it isn't going to happen. I don't want them to share primaries either because all it would really do make there be half as many weapons in the game.

[Azerate]

I don't care one way or another about tinker, nor any other potential new class people dream up.

I do find it a bit funny though, beacuse in WoW we have people starting those massive "new class circlejerks" in which they convince themselves their idea for a new class is something more than just fan fiction. This is not just about new classes though, it happens in wow community a lot, for example with factions going away lately.

Just because you come up with something, and you find 50 other people who like it, doesn't mean it will ever happen, nor that it's a widespread idea in the whole player base.

[shade3891]

If it doesn't make sense to you, consider the possibility that you lack imagination.

[kaintk]

a tinkerer is a steampunk thing, someone decided one day that anything who it steampunk should be hated and sheeps followed him
same thing for furries and no im not in furries =P

so yah, just hate the guy who decided for you that steampunk thing are something you have to hate

[Kalisandra]

Read my post above. How is being a repair-man considered derogatory and offensive when...it's an honourable job that every community needs? I mean, they're called "Handy-men" for a reason. Cause they're handy. They're useful. They're needed. Repairs are always needed in a household. I get that SOME people might try & use it as an offensive term...but it isn't. Joke's on them, for thinking a decent, honourable job is something to look down upon. That's how I see it, at least.

Because the stereotypical tinker was landless (and lordless), and didn't fit into the village community or structure. Like 'hobo', 'vagabond', or 'gypsy' it implies someone who is rootless, probably doesn't like hard work, and might well steal from you if you give them half a chance. Sure, if you don't have someone in your village who can repair pans and sharpen knives you need to get the tinker to do it when he comes round, but you don't trust him.

It's the good old "these people don't live like us, so they are bad people" xenophobia.

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Gameplay: there are 2 versions of this character pushed, the mech version and the run around and is basically a warrior that didn't choose a specialization at lvl 10 and maxed engineering version. Both sound like shit. The mech version... what's going to be the armor? What weapons? How will you justify the "mail" your character wears as somehow changing this machine? Why would a character that sits inside a mech or messes around with bombs wear anything other than comfy cloth? How are these classes going to play? The whole turret gameplay sounds boring as shit and really just sounds like a stationary ranged BM hunter. Throwing bombs? Engineers can already do that, shoot things, hunter again, shoe horn a healing class... meh no thank you.

There's another thing - everyone is wearing armour that's basically powered armour. It's especially clear with plate armour that give the wearer massive strength bonuses (unless they're a Holy Paladin, in which case it somehow changes to making them very smart). Sure it's 'magical', but smiths can make it without having a magical bone in their body. Thus a Warrior with the right transmog and Engineering is a 'Tinker'. Warriors can use guns too, they just choose not to because they're really bad with them these days. Remember the days when having a gun strapped on your back made you a better tank?

Overall: there are a ton of specs/subclasses/classes that could be added to the game that make more sense and already exist. But more importantly, why not just let Blizz make up a class to add that fits an expansion theme. I really have no faith that a Tinker class could be made that doesn't step all over other classes just to fit a weak theme like "we need them to rebuild". Also this isn't Starcraft, if you want to play technomancy go there or to various war40k properties. Warcraft is better left as sword and sorcery, with a bit of tongue in cheek tech that makes you wonder if it's not just working by magic as well.

At least some of the Gnome devices are definitely magi-tech.

[kranur]

I really don't understand a community that hates variety so much. A technical based class with steampunk vibes is usually a staple in many fantasy games and its a clear missing component in WoW despite the myriad of technologies the world offers. Yet anytime someone suggests a desire for the class or even comes up with creative ways to implement it half the community it seems nearly has a stroke with the amount of rage they bring.
I mean in reality it doesn't have to be called tinkerer, but i do think the game would benefit from a class that embodies a mechanical steam punk type vibe.

So just because you like and want something others shouldn't be allowed to not like it?
It's simple .. people just don't like a class that is summed up by a profession.

[Geckoo]

In my opinion, there is room for the archetype as a class, but not for tinker as a goblin/gnome exclusive thing.

First, because like it or not, engineering as a profession is heavily related to what a tinker would do. Sure, the profession does not really represent the combat capabilities of a tinker, but it does have that goofy feeling that the tinker concept usually has and when developing that class both the class and the profession should feel compatible, but different at the same time and with minimal overlap.

Second, because we've seen how over the years more races have some 'out-of-place' technology. Specially draenei and orcs since WoD. So if you make that kind of class, it needs to be something that can fit more than the two comical refliefs that gnomes and goblins are. Ideally each race could have some sort of unique models for some stuff (bots, suits, bombs, turrets...).

The way i see it, a 'tinker' class would be similar to monks in the sense that they are a class pretty much open to almost every race, not a hero-class, and has multiple roles. It also happens to be a class that could fill some missing spots: new healer class, mail wearer, dual daggers, guns/crossbows/bows.

[Varodoc]

The Tinker is typically the winner of class polls on this forum;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...r-for-the-game
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-class-in-9-0/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...h-do-you-want/
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ial-Class-Hype

So I would say it's a popular concept, at least here on MMOC.

Not really. That would imply that all users on MMO-Champion voted on that poll, which is not the case. The majority probably did not even see that thread, thus that data is not valid.

[Kalisandra]

Not sure what a Spellsword is in Warcraft...

A reskinned Enhance Shaman, basically.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Because WoW is a high fantasy game, and technology doesn't really fit? Plus, look at the Engineer class in GW2. It's kind of weird that it only uses guns by default

[Dalinos]

Not really. That would imply that all users on MMO-Champion voted on that poll, which is not the case. The majority probably did not even see that thread, thus that data is not valid.

M.Sc in Economics here. Statistically speaking, you only need around 30 observations for the CLT to kick in (Central Limit Theorem). As soon as you hit 30+ observations, you can safely assume a Normal Distribution and all statistical rules & regulations apply to the sample size in question. The moment you reach 100 observations+, you're pretty close to reality. At 1,000 observations + , your sample is, for all intents and purposes, assuming an un-biased, random choice of observations, a carbon copy of reality.

I haven't looked how many people voted in the links you're responding to, but if they're in the 100+ mark they are quite a decent representation of the population. That is, assuming the MMO-C population is a fair & unbiased sample.

[Varodoc]

M.Sc in Economics here. Statistically speaking, you only need around 30 observations for the CLT to kick in (Central Limit Theorem). As soon as you hit 30+ observations, you can safely assume a Normal Distribution and all statistical rules & regulations apply to the sample size in question. The moment you reach 100 observations+, you're pretty close to reality. At 1,000 observations + , your sample is, for all intents and purposes, assuming an un-biased, random choice of observations, a carbon copy of reality.

I haven't looked how many people voted in the links you're responding to, but if they're in the 100+ mark they are quite a decent representation of the population. That is, assuming the MMO-C population is a fair & unbiased sample.

Well I have doubts about MMO-Champion population being fair and unbiased, there is always the chance that some alts voted on that poll. It happened in the past as well in the lore subforum.

[naeblis495]

How is that any different than when a Druid dies in animal form?



Except that's not what you just said. You said that we already beat his mech form, so he dies. Again, how is that different than what happens with a Druid in animal form?



Says the poster who makes up ridiculous nonsense because they're too afraid to admit that they simply hate the concept. That's all you have to say; "I hate Tinkers", and go about your business. Embarrassing yourself with silliness like what you posted above does no one any favors.

Because the druid become the animal , he isn't wearing an animal suit . Even without shifting into an animal form , the druid basic body can still do lots of things with his magic.

The tinker hide in a mech suit to protect his laughably weak main body. Just look at the dazar alor cinematic , mekatorque almost died from a balista bolt falling next to him, when jaina, a mage, tanked a direct hit without any damage.

Without their mech suit , tinker are NOTHING .