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  1. #281
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    Ive over a decade clearing all of the hardest difficulties and while not a amazing pvp ive broken 2.2k multiple times. Your concepts really can't be built upon to any successful end...

    Even if they permalocked the class into a mech that goes against blizzards philosophy of player customization they are pushing hard as hell in shadowlands.
    Why wouldn't they simply give them the customization options for their forms like the Druid class gets?

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except you failed to mention the real reason why Mistweavers were changed; Blizzard couldn't balance melee (fist weaving) with standard healing (mist weaving). The spec ALWAYS had a mana component to it, and there's no reason a Monk wouldn't use mana to heal, since Mistweaving is using magic. That by the way is why every healing spec uses Mana, because every healing spec is using magic. Obviously, a science-based class wouldn't use mana, and it isn't rocket science to figure out a resource that wouldn't use mana to heal.

    As for failing to convince you, I'm not surprised. You already had your mind made up before we began this conversation.
    It would be for you though, considering that you had to steal off two of the most unique and impactful abilities of Brewmasters and DKs for your concept while not delivering a single reasonable unique one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why wouldn't they simply give them the customization options for their forms like the Druid class gets?
    Because those options where tied to the artifact, which wouldn't be available for Tinkers.

  3. #283
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valrok View Post
    So...literally all druid forms...

    I think the ability to have mech customization would be incredible and completely fit within player customization, similar to the amount of druid forms they've added over the years
    Not to mention that mech customizations could be craftable engineering items, giving the profession a little boost thanks to the Tinker class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Because those options where tied to the artifact, which wouldn't be available for Tinkers.
    Actually no. Druid customizations also are based on hair and skin coloring of the character, glyphs, and various trinkets and items.

    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/druid...-color-options

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    It would be for you though, considering that you had to steal off two of the most unique and impactful abilities of Brewmasters and DKs for your concept while not delivering a single reasonable unique one.

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    Because those options where tied to the artifact, which wouldn't be available for Tinkers.
    As if they couldn't add a comparable amount simply because there was an artifact at one point?

    Come on that's an incredibly flimsy argument

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    I really don't understand a community that hates variety so much. A technical based class with steampunk vibes is usually a staple in many fantasy games and its a clear missing component in WoW despite the myriad of technologies the world offers. Yet anytime someone suggests a desire for the class or even comes up with creative ways to implement it half the community it seems nearly has a stroke with the amount of rage they bring.
    I mean in reality it doesn't have to be called tinkerer, but i do think the game would benefit from a class that embodies a mechanical steam punk type vibe.
    For immersion and "class" fantasy you could always go mechagnome and get engineering. Because thats the closest thing you will ever get.
    Just because some people "desire" a new class or even a very certain one does NOT mean it is a good idea or in any way good for the game.
    It has nothing to do with people raging but being tired of the same bs ppl post on message boards. And its not even about the idea itself, but how
    people who want those classes think that this idea is absolutely brilliant and there is no reason not to do it...at some point people are just done with serious answers concerning threads like this.

    At his point blizzard has to figure out a way to make wow work again. To make classes work and being fun and engaging again...because many aren't at this point or even in the beta. Wasting ressources on a new class which would mean just a lot MORE work in case of balancing, scaling, tweaking talents, sets etc etc is just NOT a good idea.

  6. #286
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    I can almost guarantee you Blizzard won't make vehicle combat a key focus for an entire class given how badly it's generally received when it's made a quest mechanic (and how badly it was received as a major dungeon mechanic in Occulus and a raid mechanic in Maly). 'Physical ranged different from Hunter' explains nothing, especially because Marksman is almost completely a physical ranged spec after the Legion rework. 'Manaless science-based healing,' again, provides no explanation on how it would actually function from a gameplay perspective. Also, a healer not confined by mana sounds like it would be a Sisyphean nightmare to balance.

    The technology theme doesn't mean anything. A marksman hunter with Lone Wolf and Engineering has a strong technology theme. A warrior with the ToC vibrosword and Engineering has a technology theme. If you want Tinker to happen, it needs to feel distinct from a character with a high investment in Engineering and you have to be able to explain how it's different. Three-word phrases do not explain how they would be different any more than if someone defending Monk in the day would have explained 'They're different from Rogue because they have a kung fu theme.'

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    I don't fuckin' know, man, that's why I'm saying people who actively want it are going to have to do a good job explaining what makes it different from Engineering. I'm just saying it if happens and it manages to feel different from Engineering, I wouldn't be opposed to it--ball's in their court to sell me on the idea.
    Engineer is a crafting profession...it makes guns and goggles and stuff

    Tinker could go several different ways...the mech route...the turret route like GW2 Engineer...could just use guns and gadgets like what Engineer used to have but hasn't been present in several expansions...could combine all 3.

    I personally would like to see Tinker have a mech tank spec, a ranged (perhaps with turrets) dps spec, and could do a healer spec

    It could easily fill in several neglected areas...like there hasn't been a ranged dps added to the game since launch and can give them mail armor and they can wield ranged weapons, both of which have few users of those items.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Actually no. Druid customizations also are based on hair and skin coloring of the character, glyphs, and various trinkets and items.

    https://www.wowhead.com/guides/druid...-color-options
    You also still owe me an answer to my post where I actually looked into your Tinker concept and explained why it is shit, not even a tank concept and lacking any unique ideas and instead ripping off other classes.

    And yeah, so they have different color pallets and glyphs which change certain forms into models also used by mobs encountered in the world for their traveling form. The core customization of the actual combat forms of Druids where still tied to the artifact.

  8. #288
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valrok View Post
    As if they couldn't add a comparable amount simply because there was an artifact at one point?

    Come on that's an incredibly flimsy argument
    Unfortunately, they're all incredibly flimsy arguments.

  9. #289
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Because we've had that topic a gazillion times, and yet, there are two new threads every day. It's mind numbing.
    Even as someone that wants (and has asked for) Tinkers, I agree with this 100%. Its idiotic how many people make topics about them that ultimately say the same goddamn things.
    Appreciate your time with friends and family while they're here. Don't wait until they're gone to tell them what they mean to you.

  10. #290
    I don't really find the class as described using mechs etc particularly interesting. And without that it's not much of a "tinkerer", particularly when the actual tinkering is really the engineering profession.

    I could see an opening for another gun/archery based class that doesn't use pets, but again, that's not a tinkerer.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Even as someone that wants (and has asked for) Tinkers, I agree with this 100%. Its idiotic how many people make topics about them that ultimately say the same goddamn things.
    It would help if the Tinker community wouldn't be lead by a very outspeaken minority which acts rather entitled and authoritarian when it comes to the topic and shuts down any ideas which doesn't fits their concept which reads like it was written by people who don't know how this game actually works outside of doing simple world quests.

  12. #292
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    You also still owe me an answer to my post where I actually looked into your Tinker concept and explained why it is shit, not even a tank concept and lacking any unique ideas and instead ripping off other classes.
    Once you claim that everything I did in my class post is simply "ripping off other classes", I don't feel that there's a discussion to be had.

    And yeah, so they have different color pallets and glyphs which change certain forms into models also used by mobs encountered in the world for their traveling form. The core customization of the actual combat forms of Druids where still tied to the artifact.
    Different color pallets, glyphs that change forms into different models, and items that alter the appearance of the Druid to match animals in the wild ARE examples of customization. There's zero reason to believe a mech based Tinker wouldn't get similar options, especially given the wide variety of mechs in WoW.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Why wouldn't they simply give them the customization options for their forms like the Druid class gets?
    It would be a massive amount of work for something only one class can benefit from. So far the only other class that has that luxury is DH with warglavies.

    I don't honestly know if blizzard could do it all again they would give druids forms again if they knew how big transmog would become.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Once you claim that everything I did in my class post is simply "ripping off other classes", I don't feel that there's a discussion to be had.
    You have literally two abilities in your Siegecrafter concept which rip off Gorefiends Grasp in terms of pulling packs of mobs into one locations and one ability which ripps off the Ox Statue by having a Turret taunt mobs. Both abilities are among the most unique and useful signatur abilities. Especially Gorefiends Grasp in quite a powerful CD for Blood DKs and you have given it your tinker twice with the benefit of also doing damage because I guess lfr hero wants to get into mythics or something like that. If you don't understand how your abilities rip-off other tanks unique support abilites while failing to deliver a concept for how their active mitigation works.

    Fuck, do you even know what active mitigation is? Do you know how Tanks work in this game?

    Different color pallets, glyphs that change forms into different models, and items that alter the appearance of the Druid to match animals in the wild ARE examples of customization. There's zero reason to believe a mech based Tinker wouldn't get similar options, especially given the wide variety of mechs in WoW.
    I mean, there is also no reason to assume we will get Tinkers, considering that the moment to include them would have been the initially tech focussed Warlords of Draenor.

  15. #295
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldlock View Post
    It would be a massive amount of work for something only one class can benefit from. So far the only other class that has that luxury is DH with warglavies.

    I don't honestly know if blizzard could do it all again they would give druids forms again if they knew how big transmog would become.
    Like undead forms for Death Knights?

    Giving each Monk race special martial arts animations for their abilities?

    Giving each Shaman race their own unique totems?

    Giving each Paladin race their own unique racial mount?

    And of course, Druids getting a unique form for each race, and multiple customization options for their forms.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Like undead forms for Death Knights?

    Giving each Monk race special martial arts animations for their abilities?

    Giving each Shaman race their own unique totems?

    Giving each Paladin race their own unique racial mount?

    And of course, Druids getting a unique form for each race, and multiple customization options for their forms.
    tldr: "thing I don't want doesn't deserve unique things, because I don't think it deserves to exist at all"

  17. #297
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    You have literally two abilities in your Siegecrafter concept which rip off Gorefiends Grasp in terms of pulling packs of mobs into one locations and one ability which ripps off the Ox Statue by having a Turret taunt mobs. Both abilities are among the most unique and useful signatur abilities. Especially Gorefiends Grasp in quite a powerful CD for Blood DKs and you have given it your tinker twice with the benefit of also doing damage because I guess lfr hero wants to get into mythics or something like that. If you don't understand how your abilities rip-off other tanks unique support abilites while failing to deliver a concept for how their active mitigation works.

    Fuck, do you even know what active mitigation is? Do you know how Tanks work in this game?
    Like I said, no discussion to be had.....

    I mean, there is also no reason to assume we will get Tinkers, considering that the moment to include them would have been the initially tech focussed Warlords of Draenor.
    Tinkers are the only WC3 hero whose abilities aren't in the class lineup. Blizzard purposely made Gazlowe into a Tinker over the course of multiple expansions, to the point where now both Goblin and Gnome racial leaders are Tinkers. We've had multiple Goblins and Gnomes pop up in mech suits in recent expansions. We have a mechanical race that doesn't fit into any existing class. etc.

    But yes, no reason to assume....

  18. #298
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    I really don't understand a community that hates variety so much. A technical based class with steampunk vibes is usually a staple in many fantasy games and its a clear missing component in WoW despite the myriad of technologies the world offers. Yet anytime someone suggests a desire for the class or even comes up with creative ways to implement it half the community it seems nearly has a stroke with the amount of rage they bring.
    I mean in reality it doesn't have to be called tinkerer, but i do think the game would benefit from a class that embodies a mechanical steam punk type vibe.
    I see no issue with Tinkerers (or Tinkers) whatsoever. And anyone who claims it ruins the game aesthetics is completely ignoring the substantially number of things that have been in the game since the beginning that were essentially steampunk like things.

  19. #299
    I dislike Tinkers because the creation of a tinker class will basically steal things and flavor from a profession that has been around since Vanilla, THREE races, and a class.

    Robot pets? You'd have to steal that from hunters.

    Miniature robots? Engineering has that for a variety of different purposes. Same goes for guns and gadgets. Mech suits don't work because they're just like pre-existing mounts.

    Then you basically steal from both themes of gnomes, mechagnomes, and goblins, so much so that now the identity of all three has been stripped down to nothing.

    Basically, in order to develop a tinker class, you'd have to stop adding things to engineering. That isn't right. If you want a tinker, go level engineering on a character.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Like I said, no discussion to be had.....
    This is how you are a childish and dishonest player in this conversation. You asked me to actually look into your class concept when I asked you about how you would imagine the Tinkers playstyle and active mitigation to work. I actually did it. And I'm calling you out on copying the mechanics of Gorefiends Grasp twice and of the Ox Statue in your concept while failing to envision how the classes active mitigation would work out.
    So, you are avoiding the discussion because I call you out on your lack of original ideas when it comes to Siegecrafter.

    And again, as you decided that you are the authority on what Tinkers should be, how does their active mitigation work? It is NOT mentioned on your class concept.

    Tinkers are the only WC3 hero whose abilities aren't in the class lineup. Blizzard purposely made Gazlowe into a Tinker over the course of multiple expansions, to the point where now both Goblin and Gnome racial leaders are Tinkers. We've had multiple Goblins and Gnomes pop up in mech suits in recent expansions. We have a mechanical race that doesn't fit into any existing class. etc.

    But yes, no reason to assume....
    That is not really an answer to my comment. Like, can you read, boy? Do you speak english? I stated that Warlords of Draenor would have been the expansion to include Tinker, as it was initially highly based around goblin tech. They didn't and they consider Goblins seemingly so unimportant for the story of the game that a significant event like a change of their leadership is handled in a quest which only the smallest minority of players will actually experience, due to it being the Goblin Heritage Armor Quest (so you need to have one of the 2% Goblins of the Character Population and also having grinded their faction up). On the other hand, there is a hugh questline, a raid and a novel about the leader of an allied race.

    So what makes you think we will ever see a goblin/gnome themed expansion? I mean, if Shadowlands was the opportunity to include necromancers or Dark Rangers, WoD was clearly the opportunity to include Tinkers.

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