Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[op3l]

That being said, it would have to be done right. One slip up and the fickle mob, aka the community, would have a fit. Monks fitted MoP because of the Pandaren culture, and Demon Hunters fitted Legion because it came time to fight fire with fire. Depending on what happens after Shadowlands, that could be the time to introduce a new class.

But only time will tell. And HE is watching from beyond the veil. Damaged, but rebuilding.

I actually think shadowland will be the perfect time. I mean it's all shadow and control and whatever, what better to build big ol machines that can't be mind controlled and aren't afraid of dark powers to end the powers that be?

Plus it'll be the first time the "Mechs" be anything more than a toy. Throwing bombs and little gadgets sounds super fun and honestly wouldn't really need that many new mechanics to pull off.

Mech suits would be like druid's different forms, and bombs/grenades would your regular spell casts or time delayed instant casts.

[Kehego]

people dont hate tinkers

people hate teriz

lol

[arkanon]

Sigh... yes, 100 people is tiny, if you want to use the tiniest sample, but it's also the most voted.
So, what is your point? Is 100 people the "few" posters that keep bringing it up constantly? Cause we both know it wasn't what you implied.
I don't consider that a few, especially as you point out that mmo champ is only a tiny portion of the WoW population and tbh that poll wasnt even serious.

Honestly, i don't need to convince you of anything because you reserve the right to determine what "a few" and "popular" are. That is your opinion.
I am excited for it, the people i know are all excited for it in-game and i see people excited here, on reddit, on the official forums and on youtube. It's not an official census like you would like, but it is the best we have cause a census will never exist. For me, that is enough to call it popular.
On that note, so is bard, necromancer and dark ranger for the same reasons. They are the most talked about.

No matter what you determine, i see excitement. If you choose to ignore it, it's your deal. If you want to debate the definitions and pretend it's only a few hardcore posters, well, i couldn't disagree more. You don't get to deny other people their excitement just cause you are not excited by it.

100 is more than a few forum posters. At least we should be able to agree on that, if theres any reason to be had. Popularity is a more subjective concept and it's not possible to clearly determine.
If you say it's the same people on all sites, well you gotta prove that, cause i'm not gonna believe it at face value.

Clickbait title on video? doesnt fit narrative - IGNORED
Similar Like / Dislike count on most of their videos? doesnt fit narrative - IGNORED
100 PARTICIPANTS? doesnt fit narrative - IGNORED
Few being commonly accepted as 2 or 3, 4 at absolute most? Intentionally misconstrued
I never said "only a few people like the idea of a Tinker" and yet the majority of your post is spent proving this wrong - STRAWMAN.

What i said, very clearly, was that people are fed up with the same FEW (2 or 3 since you have trouble with that) people dominating the conversation, shouting down all opposition, being extremely disingenuous, cherry picking data, and telling us they have an entire cake when they only have a few crumbs spread over multiple decades of Blizzard releases, often on obscure fansites.

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people dont hate tinkers

people hate teriz

lol

Although i wouldnt go so far as just outright name/shame one person, its certainly a common theme i see across multiple threads, from multiple different users. My opinion is that it is not only that one user, there is a few of them, some less vocal than others, who essentially spew the same narrative. The frustrating thing about certain members of this group is they produce these very impressive looking concepts, but if you did a small amount of digging, you would discover that their FIRST concept is VASTLY different to their more recent one, and the differences can be found copy/pasted from a completely different users ideas put forward in another thread. Something they still to this day refuse to acknowledge, even though when they copied it over, it even included the typos from the source. So 'their' fancy looking concept is mostly not even their own.

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Throwing bombs and little gadgets sounds super fun and honestly wouldn't really need that many new mechanics to pull off.
.

You mean Engineering?

[markos82]

Every hero in WC3 was a hero with a skill, what's your point? Also based on a hero's skill with engineering, they can reach a point where they don't need to craft anything, they can use technology to simply produce.

And again it's a skill, skill we have as profession. Even though it's basically useless it's still a skill, skill we get from trainer, level up and that's it. Hero class is just better at that skill, so you can't look it as a class...

[Daffan]

Because it's stupid.

[rrayy]

That is a terrible generalization. There is excitement around it, so it is natural that it generates buzz and is brought up when discussing new classes. Just as High elf popped up on all sort of new race threads for years. Is there anything else you would like to forbid people from bringing up when sharing their opinion? The problem here is that then an argument ensues and people don't know when to quit.
I get that you find one particular fan is very steadfast in his beliefs. I ask that you don't generalize every Tinker fan. Each of us is only responsible for our own words.
It would also help if people didn't take things personally as well. It's not like you NEED to agree with others. The problem we have here is a bunch of people on both sides unable to walk away from what is a difference of opinion. All this remorse is honestly unnecessary.
Leaving an argument doesn't mean you lost it. I think a lot of people don't understand that.

The same 4-5 people spamming the same Tinker nonsense and being responsible for 90% of the posts in the thread does not = buzz.

[cocomen2]

That exactly a thing i was talking about, even after he was banned , he just logged 2nd account and prolonged debate ...... then "people love tinker" "It has more than 300.000 views"

You don't get to deny other people their excitement just cause you are not excited by it.

Sorry but if you had fun in saying that other class-concept are shit and only your own tinker-headcannon-concept is perfect, its strange meaning of "FUN"

Its like "You don't get to deny other people their excitement", but then you come and DENY other people fun .... so you are hypocrite?

[Swnem]

Clickbait title on video? doesnt fit narrative - IGNORED
Similar Like / Dislike count on most of their videos? doesnt fit narrative - IGNORED
100 PARTICIPANTS? doesnt fit narrative - IGNORED
Few being commonly accepted as 2 or 3, 4 at absolute most? Intentionally misconstrued
I never said "only a few people like the idea of a Tinker" and yet the majority of your post is spent proving this wrong - STRAWMAN.

What i said, very clearly, was that people are fed up with the same FEW (2 or 3 since you have trouble with that) people dominating the conversation, shouting down all opposition, being extremely disingenuous, cherry picking data, and telling us they have an entire cake when they only have a few crumbs spread over multiple decades of Blizzard releases, often on obscure fansites.

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Although i wouldnt go so far as just outright name/shame one person, its certainly a common theme i see across multiple threads, from multiple different users. My opinion is that it is not only that one user, there is a few of them, some less vocal than others, who essentially spew the same narrative. The frustrating thing about

I have seen ZERO excitement or buzz around the tinker - its a handful of fans spamming

Then why do you try to misrepresent that there is no excitement for the class?

How many people do you need for excitement to happen? One.
What is needed for buzz to happen? An atmosphere of excitement and activity.
Even if it's 2-3 people as you say. They have an atmosphere of excitement. But, even you have accepted that there's at least 100 people that want a Tinker class on the most recent poll here on mmo champ. Are 100 people an atmosphere of excitement? Yes, i would say they are. If, you disagree, it's your deal. If you think a 300k video isn't excitement and activity, it's your deal. I am not gonna argue with your interpretations. There is no point to it.

Dude, i don't care about your forum feuds. Keep them to yourself. Your misrepresentation is offensive. That might be why people get argumentative with you. This is over btw. There is no point in carrying this on. You are clearly on the war path and i am not interested. So, watch here a Tinker fan not bothering to engage in pointless arguments. You believe what you want dude. It doesn't change what i feel.

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That exactly a thing i was talking about, even after he was banned , he just logged 2nd account and prolonged debate ...... then "people love tinker" "It has more than 300.000 views"


Sorry but if you had fun in saying that other class-concept are shit and only your own tinker-headcannon-concept is perfect, its strange meaning of "FUN"

Its like "You don't get to deny other people their excitement", but then you come and DENY other people fun .... so you are hypocrite?

I don't deny anyone their fun and i did no such thing. That is false. You are using one poster that is a Tinker fan and are projecting the same behavior on everyone else that is also a fan. That is a total strawman.
I LIKE other class concepts, but just like Tinker, they all have hurdles. Tinker has the engineering problem, Necromancer has the unholy problem, Dark ranger has the hunter problem, Bard has the class trinity problem and Dragonsworn has the problem that it needs 5 specs to be fully realised. They are all fun concepts that can be very good. I am denying neither one just cause there is one i like more than the other. Stop the strawmaning man, you can't shove every Tinker fan in the same convenient bag cause you have a feud with one.

[Ielenia]

To be completely honest, I don't "hate" the idea of a tech class, or even dislike it. To the idea itself, I'm rather lukewarm. If implemented, I'd be likely to try it.

Unless it's gnome/goblin restricted, at which point I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole, but I digress.

My problem with a tech class being implemented is its concept in the lore. In the lore of Warcraft, there hasn't been shown to exist any sort of practical difference between a character titled "engineer" and one titled "tinker". The only difference is that this is a name given to gnomes, goblins and dwarves, with maybe a human and a night elf, but the jury's still out on that.

I'll reiterate to certain people if they're reading this that I'm speaking strictly about lore, not gameplay or game mechanics. That said, the problem, for me, is that implementing a tech class would be akin to adding a class called "sorcerer" with fire/frost/arcane specs, that has the same source of power and teachings as the mage class... but has different spells. Because a tech class would be creating and using bombs, rockets, mechs, discombobulators, personal shields, speed boosters, guns, healing "guns", etc... all the stuff that a character known as "engineer" already does. Again, all in the lore.

[Trazzle]

You say not to generalize, and yet make statements like "There is excitement around it, so it is natural that it generates buzz". I have seen ZERO excitement or buzz around the tinker - its a handful of fans spamming any thread that mentions classes with the same asinine ramblings and derailing any meaningful discussions. Basically, the same couple of people come charging into the room screaming and shouting everyone down, forcing their fan fiction down everyones throats until they either get banned, or everyone else gives up and leaves the room.

And then a few days later the exact same scenario plays out, and as you can see from the comments in here, some people have had enough of it.

Hahahahahahahahahaha!! Try explaining why there’s conversations about the Tinker class all over various forums and sites then. You really think it’s just outliers who are milling out Tinker propaganda?? How obtuse can you be?

[Triceron]

Hahahahahahahahahaha!! Try explaining why there’s conversations about the Tinker class all over various forums and sites then. You really think it’s just outliers who are milling out Tinker propaganda?? How obtuse can you be?

I think that's the difference in conversation though.

Tinkers are talked about in various forms and sites - as equally as any other class concept.

Here, however, the Tinker simply dominates any class conversation. Every class conversation.

So you are right that arkanon's assessment is a bit extreme to say there is 'zero buzz' around the Tinker, because there definitely is buzz about it and it's been around since MoP. It's just that in most other places I've seen it discussed it's about as equal as how people approach any other class concept that they want to see like Bards or Dark Rangers or Dragonsworn. It isn't really a special case beyond that, it's mostly people expressing what they'd like to see of a new class that they like.

[Trollokdamus]

This has been raised countless times - BfA had the absolute PERFECT opportunity to add the tinker in, and it wasnt added - from memory it wasnt even spoken about at all.

I don't think it was a perfect opportunity because Mechagon happened mid-expansion. Considering that Blizzard generally holds off implementing any major class changes or rehauls till the very end of an expansion, there was no way they would introduce an entire new class at that point. However, I believe that with Mechagon they did prepare the ground for adding Tinkers later on whenever they feel like it.

[arkanon]

I don't think it was a perfect opportunity because Mechagon happened mid-expansion. Considering that Blizzard generally holds off implementing any major class changes or rehauls till the very end of an expansion, there was no way they would introduce an entire new class at that point. However, I believe that with Mechagon they did prepare the ground for adding Tinkers later on whenever they feel like it.

Sigh. Think this through, for just 15 seconds. Blizzard CHOSE to introduce Mecha half way through - they could easily have added it in the prepatch as a way to introduce Mecha gnomes and tinkers.

Yo don't actually believe mechagon was not on the table during early development? You think they launched the expansion, then a few weeks before the patch was due said "mechagnomes! Let's do that! Let's give them an island!"

[Eapoe]

Maybe people should start advocating for more tinker friendly races on the Horde 1st, seeing as how they have only 1 tech savvy class and the Alliance have been 3, maybe 4. Alli have Draenai, Gnomes, Dwarves, and humans (maybe) that have demonstrated the ability to use & craft inventions on the fly. Horde have Goblins.
Keep in mind I’m not just discussing the ability to use tech, but to actually develop and build it.

[Trazzle]

Sigh. Think this through, for just 15 seconds. Blizzard CHOSE to introduce Mecha half way through - they could easily have added it in the prepatch as a way to introduce Mecha gnomes and tinkers.

Yo don't actually believe mechagon was not on the table during early development? You think they launched the expansion, then a few weeks before the patch was due said "mechagnomes! Let's do that! Let's give them an island!"

You actually think blizzard won’t continue to use new classes as selling points for future expansions for profit? Are you serious?

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Horde could have orcs, undead, goblins, nightborn, blood elves without much friction. All are known to work with tech to some degree.

[arkanon]

You actually think blizzard won’t continue to use new classes as selling points for future expansions for profit? Are you serious?

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Horde could have orcs, undead, goblins, nightborn, blood elves without much friction. All are known to work with tech to some degree.

Tirez, dont be silly. Lets present the scenarios with Mechagon and Mechagnomes during early bfa development:

Option 1: "hey guys, we are introducing Mechagnomes and an entire tech based island called Mechagon, one of our raids even has Mekkatorque as a boss! is now the right time to talk about possibly introducing the Tinker?" - Talked about it, but the tinker didnt make the cut for whatever reason.

Option 2: "hey guys, we are introducing Mechagnomes and an entire tech based island called Mechagon, one of our raids even has Mekkatorque as a boss!, isnt it a shame we dont have a new class to go along with this?" - Blizzard have zero interest in the Tinker, and the thought never crossed their mind.

The path to introduction was laid out like a red carpet - Head into BFA prepatch, bla bla bla Head to Mechagon, meet mechagnomes - play through intro quest lines that eventually reveal they have been working on Tinker tech - quest line to unlock them as a class - congratulations you have the tinker class.

So i guess the question is, which do you think happened? Do you think Blizzard thought about introducing a new class called tinker with all the groundwork ready to go, or, is it just something they have zero interest in?

Is there a possibility they will do a heavily tech themed expansion and introduce tinker then? Sure, absolutely. But the EXACT same thing could be said for literally any other fan concept or class idea.

[Trollokdamus]

Sigh. Think this through, for just 15 seconds. Blizzard CHOSE to introduce Mecha half way through - they could easily have added it in the prepatch as a way to introduce Mecha gnomes and tinkers.

Yo don't actually believe mechagon was not on the table during early development? You think they launched the expansion, then a few weeks before the patch was due said "mechagnomes! Let's do that! Let's give them an island!"

Thing is, Mechagon had nothing to do with the main storyline of the expansion. Had they added it in the pre-patch, the relevance of Tinkers would have ended with the release of the actual expansion. They chose to introduce Mechagon halfway as a distraction from the main story and probably as an experiment of sorts.

[arkanon]

Thing is, Mechagon had nothing to do with the main storyline of the expansion. Had they added it in the pre-patch, the relevance of Tinkers would have ended with the release of the actual expansion. They chose to introduce Mechagon halfway as a distraction from the main story and probably as an experiment of sorts.

They introduced mechagon to introduce mechagnomes - you have played the expansion, yes?

[Trazzle]

It’s called laying the ground work. If blizzard ever so chooses to add Tinkers in the future they’ve set precedent that the class fantasy is a fixture of the WoW universe.

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You’re belief then is that Mechagon was established solely to introduce mechagnomes? Have you played WoW before?

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That is a crazy amount of development time to introduce a reasonably low interest allied race, which I image blizzard would be aware of considering they know what percentage of the community plays gnomes.

[Ielenia]

Maybe people should start advocating for more tinker friendly races on the Horde 1st, seeing as how they have only 1 tech savvy class and the Alliance have been 3, maybe 4. Alli have Draenai, Gnomes, Dwarves, and humans (maybe) that have demonstrated the ability to use & craft inventions on the fly. Horde have Goblins.
Keep in mind I’m not just discussing the ability to use tech, but to actually develop and build it.

The Mag'har orcs are technically tech-oriented, at least in the sense that they don't shy away from using technology like the rest of the other Horde races. I also believe blood elves and forsaken to be also two races that could be tech-class material.

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It’s called laying the ground work. If blizzard ever so chooses to add Tinkers in the future they’ve set precedent that the class fantasy is a fixture of the WoW universe.

As if technology hasn't been a part of the franchise's universe, yet?

You’re belief then is that Mechagon was established solely to introduce mechagnomes? Have you played WoW before?

Do you really think Blizzard plans that far ahead? That's like saying TBC was done "with the intention of establishing demon hunters as a possible future class".

That is a crazy amount of development time to introduce a reasonably low interest allied race, which I image blizzard would be aware of considering they know what percentage of the community plays gnomes.

It's not "just to add" an allied race. It's also a daily quest spot, with pets to collect, achievements to acquire and rares to hunt.