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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    See my other posts in this thread. It's very likely that he's stored himself in Xal'atath, but even if he isn't then he's likely to return during the Void expansion as he has a magical soul, meaning he can't be killed in Azeroth.
    There is absolutely nothing supporting that theory. Also, sure he may show up in a Void expansion but not likely. Unless Y'Shaarj ALSO shows up. Otherwise, N'Zoth is dusted and not coming back.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    There is absolutely nothing supporting that theory. Also, sure he may show up in a Void expansion but not likely. Unless Y'Shaarj ALSO shows up. Otherwise, N'Zoth is dusted and not coming back.
    The entire story of Xal'atath in BfA supports the theory. It is the most logical interpretation of what happens. Its role simply makes no sense otherwise. Blizzard have said in interviews following 8.3 that N'Zoth had plans within plans, and to assume that this was the whole story would be to "ignore what N'Zoth was trying to teach us."

    And yes, Y'Shaarj would likely show up in this Void expansion, as would the other two Old Gods who we killed.
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  3. #63
    Legendary! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    (it) is likely to only be fixed with a few judiciously applied retcons or far-fetched developments.
    It's going to be quite hard to pull a "judicious" retcon for something like Teldrassil, just saying. Unless they pull something like the whole thing having been one of N'zoth's horrific visions, or some equally crazy stuff. Still, I wouldn't even be mad in that case...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    The entire story of Xal'atath in BfA supports the theory. It is the most logical interpretation of what happens. Its role simply makes no sense otherwise. Blizzard have said in interviews following 8.3 that N'Zoth had plans within plans, and to assume that this was the whole story would be to "ignore what N'Zoth was trying to teach us."

    And yes, Y'Shaarj would likely show up in this Void expansion, as would the other two Old Gods who we killed.
    Xal'atath(as far as we know) isn't an Old God so it was easier to trap her. But it was a powerful Old God artifact which is why it was able to pierce N'Ztoh's carapace. Sure he had plans but that doesn't matter if he's killed before he can fulfill those plans.

    So a Void expansion would be the only way we see N'Zoth again.

  5. #65
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    It's going to be quite hard to pull a "judicious" retcon for something like Teldrassil, just saying. Unless they pull something like the whole thing having been one of N'zoth's horrific visions, or some equally crazy stuff. Still, I wouldn't even be mad in that case...
    I can think of a few, while deleterious to the lore, that could at least halt or limit the damage Teldrassil did to the game as a whole:

    • Retcon it so that Sylvanas entered into a deal with N'Zoth beforehand, and N'Zoth subsequently influenced the Horde and artificially inflamed their hatreds in a general sense.
    • Explore those who actually assisted with firing the siege weapons at Teldrassil and expose them as Sylvanas' cultists and perhaps even agents of the Jailer in the physical world.
    • Retroactively institute a "fog of war" narrative to the Horde, making it so that what happened at Darkshore is not and was never common knowledge to the rank and file, painting it as if many in the Horde felt it was a false flag, so to speak, or that it was an "accident" that the Alliance are trying to blame on the Horde (a redux of the Wrathgate if you will).

    The developers are already doing a bit of damage control i.e. Teldrassil with the events in Ardenweald during Shadowlands. They're not doing what I feared they might do, fortunately; but it is still a pretty obvious attempt to minimize the damage.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post

    Grommash, dies off screen
    I don't think you know what this means

  7. #67
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    I would not say, that they waste their villains. Its more, that they are just "kinda" bad at writing villians with a start, mid and ending. They set villians up, but they have not planned out when they are gonna be used or when they are gonna die.

    That makes it so, that most villains role in world feels either rushed or ignored. They often die to either end an expansion or to make room for another villain. That kind of character writing is insanely hard to get right, since you have to write for both long and short term at the same time. Every event with the character has to be both a middle section and an end point at the same time.

    So yeah, they are not wasting them, there is just a really bad infrastructure for villians in WoWs story.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The developers are already doing a bit of damage control i.e. Teldrassil with the events in Ardenweald during Shadowlands. They're not doing what I feared they might do, fortunately; but it is still a pretty obvious attempt to minimize the damage.
    What were you afraid they would do?

  9. #69
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malira View Post
    What were you afraid they would do?
    Resurrect the entirety of Teldrassil's dead via some goings-on in the Maw - basically undoing the bulk of the event save for the physical destruction of the tree itself.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Resurrect the entirety of Teldrassil's dead via some goings-on in the Maw - basically undoing the bulk of the event save for the physical destruction of the tree itself.
    To be honest I could see that as a potential solution although it would set a terrible precedent (why can't we just resurrect EVERYONE) and kind of sidestep the need for actual justice (although I fear Blizz is gonna do that anyway)

  11. #71
    Because a bad guy needs to be insane, corrupted or irredeemably evil for us to fight them.

    There can be no moral ambiguity if someone is a loot pinata. Our collective conscience must be clean.

  12. #72
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malira View Post
    To be honest I could see that as a potential solution although it would set a terrible precedent (why can't we just resurrect EVERYONE) and kind of sidestep the need for actual justice (although I fear Blizz is gonna do that anyway)
    Narratively speaking, you could make it a one-time event through storytelling element - such as Tyrande expelling the power of the Night Warrior (along with perhaps her own life) to resurrect them and essentially undo what had been done. I don't think this would be a good way to go about it by any means, but it could be done in a manner that doesn't itself open a huge plot hole.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  13. #73
    I predict that Sargeras, Azshara and Nzoth will return for the great end.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Barring bottle-stories and one-offs, I think WoW would be much better served if *all* important story beats had an in-game representation - even if it's just a cutscene recap or one of those in-game cinematic flashbacks.
    Or even just write more of those short in-game books, just like they did in Classic to give people the background history and lore of the world.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Xal'atath(as far as we know) isn't an Old God so it was easier to trap her. But it was a powerful Old God artifact which is why it was able to pierce N'Ztoh's carapace. Sure he had plans but that doesn't matter if he's killed before he can fulfill those plans.

    So a Void expansion would be the only way we see N'Zoth again.
    Firstly, there are rumours that Xal'atath may in fact be an Old God herself, but that's beside the point. The whole plot thread with N'Zoth intentionally emptying it, delivering it to Sylvanas so that she could give it to Azshara who somehow was under the impression that it would be able to pierce N'Zoth. All of that only makes sense if N'Zoth had some sort of plan for it, and the most obvious way to use a Blade which we know stored something which might be an Old God is to store another one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  16. #76
    Grom isn't dead, he died "off screen" but take my word for it that we'll see him chained up.. again, we'll then free him and at a later point he will heroically sacrifice himself in [insert plot here]

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Firstly, there are rumours that Xal'atath may in fact be an Old God herself, but that's beside the point. The whole plot thread with N'Zoth intentionally emptying it, delivering it to Sylvanas so that she could give it to Azshara who somehow was under the impression that it would be able to pierce N'Zoth. All of that only makes sense if N'Zoth had some sort of plan for it, and the most obvious way to use a Blade which we know stored something which might be an Old God is to store another one.
    Ok that's rumors and speculation so you should really say that instead of talking about it like it's fact.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Ok that's rumors and speculation so you should really say that instead of talking about it like it's fact.
    When I say rumours, Xal'atath maybe being the 5th Old God is mentioned in-game. Not just a fan theory.

    And I think I made what is factual in-game and what is my interpretation of it perfectly clear. I stand by that it is the most logical interpretation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    When I say rumours, Xal'atath maybe being the 5th Old God is mentioned in-game. Not just a fan theory.

    And I think I made what is factual in-game and what is my interpretation of it perfectly clear. I stand by that it is the most logical interpretation.
    "Theories abound as to the nature of its creation: the more outlandish claim that the blade is the remains of a forgotten Old God who was consumed by its kin, while other theories state it is the claw of Y'Shaarj itself."

    This is literally the only time that it is said that Xala'atath might be an Old God. Notice how it says that it's an outlandish theory. So no. In that context, she absolutely isn't an Old God.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    "Theories abound as to the nature of its creation: the more outlandish claim that the blade is the remains of a forgotten Old God who was consumed by its kin, while other theories state it is the claw of Y'Shaarj itself."

    This is literally the only time that it is said that Xala'atath might be an Old God. Notice how it says that it's an outlandish theory. So no. In that context, she absolutely isn't an Old God.
    Seems a strange detail to put in-game. Regardless, whether Xal'atath is an Old God or not is irrelevant. There's no reason that N'Zoth couldn't store a part of his soul or something inside the Blade. For what other reason would he empty it and deliver it to Sylvanas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

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