The Purpose of the Tol'vir and Mogu

[Skytotem]

We've known for a long time that the Earthen were essentially the 'architects' of the titans work forces, they built things and excavated and guarded their deeper facilities.

Then mechagnomes handled the "Tech" in the titans magitech, while Vrykul were their 'warriors' handling the frontline fighting and Keepers were the Commanders with a wide variety of skills.

So what about the Tol'vir and Mogu?

Why did they guard the facilities in uldum and Pandaria rather than members of the other 'seed' races? And what about the Tol'vir that were in Northrend that were conquered by the Nerubians?

Cursory lore doesn't make the Mogu's original skills or responsibilities seem any different from the Earthen or Mogu, save that they might be a sort of... combination of them.

Tol'vir's responsibilities similarly don't seem far off from the Mechagnomes.


But looking at what we've seen in the N'zoth patch for BFA and the Shadowlands info regarding anima I'd like to posit a theory.


Now, reasonably we know the "out of universe" explanation for all this is... "Because Blizzard hadn't made Mogu / Tol'vir races yet, but wanted to do something that looked different for new titan constructed races" but...

What if the Tol'vir's job was to handle the 'magic' end of the Titans magitech? Given how when they're corrupted by old gods as Obsidian Destroyers or things like "Maut" and "Moam" they seem to have anti-magic skills.

And what if the Mogu's job was to handle 'anima' and spiritual concerns for the things titans created? Or trapping the spirits of Old God minions in some way?

[qwerty123456]

We've known for a long time that the Earthen were essentially the 'architects' of the titans work forces, they built things and excavated and guarded their deeper facilities.

Then mechagnomes handled the "Tech" in the titans magitech, while Vrykul were their 'warriors' handling the frontline fighting and Keepers were the Commanders with a wide variety of skills.

So what about the Tol'vir and Mogu?

Why did they guard the facilities in uldum and Pandaria rather than members of the other 'seed' races? And what about the Tol'vir that were in Northrend that were conquered by the Nerubians?

Cursory lore doesn't make the Mogu's original skills or responsibilities seem any different from the Earthen or Mogu, save that they might be a sort of... combination of them.

Tol'vir's responsibilities similarly don't seem far off from the Mechagnomes.


But looking at what we've seen in the N'zoth patch for BFA and the Shadowlands info regarding anima I'd like to posit a theory.


Now, reasonably we know the "out of universe" explanation for all this is... "Because Blizzard hadn't made Mogu / Tol'vir races yet, but wanted to do something that looked different for new titan constructed races" but...

What if the Tol'vir's job was to handle the 'magic' end of the Titans magitech? Given how when they're corrupted by old gods as Obsidian Destroyers or things like "Maut" and "Moam" they seem to have anti-magic skills.

And what if the Mogu's job was to handle 'anima' and spiritual concerns for the things titans created? Or trapping the spirits of Old God minions in some way?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Curse_of_Flesh

The mogu were created to basically teraform the Pandaria area, Tol'vir to protect knowledge.

[Skytotem]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Curse_of_Flesh

The mogu were created to basically teraform the Pandaria area, Tol'vir to protect knowledge.

Yes, this is already addressed.

Cursory lore doesn't make the Mogu's original skills or responsibilities seem any different from the Earthen or Mogu, save that they might be a sort of... combination of them.

Tol'vir's responsibilities similarly don't seem far off from the Mechagnomes.

[qwerty123456]

Yes, this is already addressed.

Earthen were for deep in the ground which probably explains the short size while Mogu were for on land stuff.

[StationaryHawk]

If Blizzard had intended to expand the roles of the tol'vir and mogu beyond what we already know, Chronicle would have been the time for it. While there's always room for retcons in the future, I don't see the point of speculating what their real purpose is, regardless of how similar they are to earthen and mechagnomes.

[Feldreams]

All this is answered in Chronicles Vol. 1.

[Aucald]

The Earthen were created to sculptors and cultivators of Azeroth's subterranean regions. The Tol'vir were created as lorekeepers and engineers who maintained the Titan complexes Ulduar and Uldum, maintaining upkeep on the Forge of Wills, the Reorigination Systems, and so forth. The Mogu were created originally to dig out the myriad waterways and rivers of Azeroth, but were then repurposed into soldiers to fight the Old Gods and their forces.

[Skytotem]

If Blizzard had intended to expand the roles of the tol'vir and mogu beyond what we already know, Chronicle would have been the time for it. While there's always room for retcons in the future, I don't see the point of speculating what their real purpose is, regardless of how similar they are to earthen and mechagnomes.

Then why did they retcon the val'kyr stuff from the chronicle?

[goldlock]

Then why did they retcon the val'kyr stuff from the chronicle?

They do that a lot... the best way to think of wow lore is vast as the ocean but deep as a puddle.

[StationaryHawk]

Then why did they retcon the val'kyr stuff from the chronicle?

Blizzard will retcon whatever they need to in order to tell the story they want. Chronicle isn't exempt from this. If that means mogu were created to handle anima, that's what we'll get.

But until Blizzard says otherwise, the purpose of the mogu and the tol'vir is exactly what we've been told, and I don't see the point in guessing at how they might or might not retcon that in the future.

[Ardenaso]

but was it ever explained about the Tol'vir in Warcraft 3?

their debut was in Sylvanas' chapter which is pretty weird like why would Titanic Watchers ally with the Forsaken? assuming they regained their own wills

[Skytotem]

but was it ever explained about the Tol'vir in Warcraft 3?

their debut was in Sylvanas' chapter which is pretty weird like why would Titanic Watchers ally with the Forsaken? assuming they regained their own wills

Honestly? Sylv having them was probably a game mechanic, they were probably only ever a limited resource in Northrend that were all wrecked when Kael and Vashj hit the Frozen throne with Illidan.

[Aucald]

but was it ever explained about the Tol'vir in Warcraft 3?

their debut was in Sylvanas' chapter which is pretty weird like why would Titanic Watchers ally with the Forsaken? assuming they regained their own wills

The Obsidian Destroyers were the Tol'vir of Azjol-Nerub, probably those stationed near Ulduar in Northrend. The Nerubians found them in stasis (the stasis initiated by Loken) and "modified" them to serve as slaves. The Scourge later conquered Azjol-Nerub and took these enslaved Tol'vir as their own, gang-pressing them into service as feared shock troopers. The Tol'vir stationed in and around Ahn'Qiraj suffered a similar fate at the hands of C'Thun and the Twin Emperors, corrupted into serving the Old God and turned into creatures like Moam.

The Tol'vir of Uldum are apparently the only ones who evaded corruption (until the Neferset succumb to Deathwing and Al'akir later), probably due to their role in safeguarding the Temple of Origination and being protected by a massive illusion that hid Uldum until the Catalclysm occurred.

[Ardenaso]

The Obsidian Destroyers were the Tol'vir of Azjol-Nerub, probably those stationed near Ulduar in Northrend. The Nerubians found them in stasis (the stasis initiated by Loken) and "modified" them to serve as slaves. The Scourge later conquered Azjol-Nerub and took these enslaved Tol'vir as their own, gang-pressing them into service as feared shock troopers. The Tol'vir stationed in and around Ahn'Qiraj suffered a similar fate at the hands of C'Thun and the Twin Emperors, corrupted into serving the Old God and turned into creatures like Moam.

The Tol'vir of Uldum are apparently the only ones who evaded corruption (until the Neferset succumb to Deathwing and Al'akir later), probably due to their role in safeguarding the Temple of Origination and being protected by a massive illusion that hid Uldum until the Catalclysm occurred.

Honestly? Sylv having them was probably a game mechanic, they were probably only ever a limited resource in Northrend that were all wrecked when Kael and Vashj hit the Frozen throne with Illidan.

the thing is, they were just... there. No reason nor lore explanation. Would have been better if their debut was in the next chapter



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also, Slaughterhouse wtf

[Aucald]

the thing is, they were just... there. No reason nor lore explanation. Would have been better if their debut was in the next chapter

https://i.imgur.com/SGXPiZd.png

- - - Updated - - -

also, Slaughterhouse wtf

Sylvanas was basically leveraging the Scourge resources left in Arthas' previous stronghold in Lordaeron - this included Obsidian Destroyers and Slaughterhouses, apparently. I agree the Obsidian Destroyers did have a weird intro in context, though.

[Ardenaso]

Sylvanas was basically leveraging the Scourge resources left in Arthas' previous stronghold in Lordaeron - this included Obsidian Destroyers and Slaughterhouses, apparently. I agree the Obsidian Destroyers did have a weird intro in context, though.

I guess the Tol'vir in Sylvanas chapters were all still "enslaved" or simply just mechanisms in context

[Aucald]

I guess the Tol'vir in Sylvanas chapters were all still "enslaved" or simply just mechanisms in context

Pretty much - the Scourge had rendered them automatons, and in that capacity they'd serve any master able to field them.

[patonikabita541]

For me as a newcomer, this is very useful

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

So if you hammer off a chuck off a creature of stone, then that creature of stone gets the curse of flesh, does it start bleeding then?

[Razion]

With what we now know about Tol'vir, the Obsidian Destroyer introduction in WC3 brings up some questions. The use of the Slaughterhouse tends to imply that maybe the Tol'vir were slain and raised into Obsidian Statues in a way. But we know Obsidian Statues are normally corrupted by Old God forces. And with the Old God proximity in Northrend, it seems kind of likely that Arthas had just collected some he found on his way on the way out and brought them everywhere along the way. So then, why are they part of the Slaughterhouse? Do they need tribute, like people slaughtered, in order to be made to serve? Is this how the Old God corrupts them as well, is through dark sacrifice? Also, it kind of also brings up some other questions. Because, you can just keep making more of them over and over again even when they're destroyed. So, are you making more out of collected pieces of them from the battlefield to remake the same ones, or are you making new ones after churning dead bodies together in dark sacrifices? Are there being sacrifices being made to Old Gods to make that happen? Or is it like, soul harvesting to like, fuel soul shards for warlock like acolytes to summon in more Obsididan Destroyers from Northrend that they find? Considering they're considered "gifts from Ner'zhul", maybe he's summoning them into the field himself? Or maybe like, were there some Tol'vir out and about already in the general vicinity of Lordaeron? Were they trying to study humanity? Were they trying to warn them about the Scourge?