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  1. #1

    Why does blizzard waste their villains so much

    Kil’jaeden, the most influental villain in all of warcraft. Swept under the rug in one patch. He should have been the final boss, not argus

    Archimonde, appears out of nowhere and dies permanently

    Azshara, one of the most hyped villains in all of warcraft, had like 3 MINOR appearances ingame (Darkshore, WoT, and broken isles) before being swept under the rug

    Grommash, dies off screen

    Nzoth, hyped up since cata, dies in 1 patch

    Deathwing, a master manipulator, instead is just a big dragon that breathes fire

    Did kelthuzad even do anything outside of naxxramas? Literally the master of the scourge behind only the lich king

    It gets incredibly lame after a while. Why can’t we have villains that do amazing crazy stuff and not fail all the time? Prehaps stop making every character a mary sue. Azshara destroyed Aszuna with a snap of her fingers but can’t take on a human mage and a ranger?
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  2. #2
    Azshara is not being swept under the rug, she's going off to claim the true throne.

    N'Zoth did not die in one patch, he hid himself inside Xal'atath to free himself from Azeroth's surface. He's likely off to work on claiming the true prize.

    I'll grant that many villains have been misused, notably the lack of any deception from the Deceiver during Broken Shore, but WoW is ultimately about killing bosses. The ludonarrative dissonance of killing a boss and then have the game telling you that you lost isn't fun. Near enough every villain we've ever fought died in one patch unless it was "merely a setback".

    Also Azshara was toying with us but underestimated the power of the Heart of Azeroth.
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  3. #3
    The only one who belongs on that list is Archimonde.
    We each walk a line. Choose yours.

  4. #4
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I don't really understand how you're defining "swept under a rug" in this context - being defeated in an encounter in a raid isn't being swept under a rug unless you believe every antagonist in every story is "swept under a rug" once defeated by the heroes. If you're referring to Archimonde in WoD, he's referred to several times in the Talador quest-chain as the primary force behind the Legion invasion of AU Draenor, picking up what he posits as the slack from Kil'jaeden who was too laissez-faire about it originally. Azshara, similarly, isn't swept under the rug and is still active in the world - we defeat her, but she appears again in Ny'alotha and subsequently escapes. Grommash, assuming you mean the WC3 incarnation, is a key component to several missions, is both playable and appears as an opponent, and dies dramatically in a cinematic (pretty far from being "off screen"). N'Zoth has been pretty important and active from Legion onward. Kel'thuzad was the main reason that the Third War happened, actively spread the Plague through Lordaeron via tainted foodstuffs and created the Cult of the Damned to promulgate the Lich King's commands. He then led the Scourge in the Eastern Kingdoms and brought Archimode to Azeroth himself near the close of WC3.

    Of your list, I'd argue Deathwing was the sole example of a wasted villain. While he's not just a big dragon that breathes fire, he is a far cry from what he was in Day of the Dragon and his characterization in other works.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
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  5. #5
    For any one of those villains to have a fitting story, they would need to be the main focus of an entire expansion. This way you can build up several setbacks, wins, and story leading up to their eventual downfall (like the LK). I often see other people commenting the same but what we forget is that if each awesome villain had a proper expansion, we'd still be stuck story-wise in a legion or old god story for many years to come. It sometimes feels kinda rushed, but 16 years later and we have just now taken care of the legion and old gods enough to explore the cosmic powers.
    Last edited by Lefrog; 2020-07-25 at 04:07 PM.

  6. #6
    because they don't care.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    except she was, she literally was experimenting on prisoners men, women, children, soldier, and civilian,
    to try and make a stronger and stronger plague.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Your not gonna win trying to make this one realize the truth.
    Your have better luck curing Corona with lemon and lime juice

  7. #7
    Pit Lord KALAMITY's Avatar
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    I agree with some of your examples. The rest are exaggerations for the sake of exaggerating. And at the time of this thread being posted there have been revelations from Shadowlands beta in regards to Kel'Thuzad.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Azshara is not being swept under the rug, she's going off to claim the true throne.

    N'Zoth did not die in one patch, he hid himself inside Xal'atath to free himself from Azeroth's surface. He's likely off to work on claiming the true prize.

    I'll grant that many villains have been misused, notably the lack of any deception from the Deceiver during Broken Shore, but WoW is ultimately about killing bosses. The ludonarrative dissonance of killing a boss and then have the game telling you that you lost isn't fun. Near enough every villain we've ever fought died in one patch unless it was "merely a setback".

    Also Azshara was toying with us but underestimated the power of the Heart of Azeroth.
    So in other words we will fight Azshara and N'zoth again?

    What's the point? Nazjatar turned out to be a heap of seaweed and Nyalotha was merely some stupid fucking dreamworld wasted on a raid.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Kil’jaeden, the most influental villain in all of warcraft. Swept under the rug in one patch. He should have been the final boss, not argus

    Archimonde, appears out of nowhere and dies permanently

    Azshara, one of the most hyped villains in all of warcraft, had like 3 MINOR appearances ingame (Darkshore, WoT, and broken isles) before being swept under the rug

    Grommash, dies off screen

    Nzoth, hyped up since cata, dies in 1 patch

    Deathwing, a master manipulator, instead is just a big dragon that breathes fire

    Did kelthuzad even do anything outside of naxxramas? Literally the master of the scourge behind only the lich king

    It gets incredibly lame after a while. Why can’t we have villains that do amazing crazy stuff and not fail all the time? Prehaps stop making every character a mary sue. Azshara destroyed Aszuna with a snap of her fingers but can’t take on a human mage and a ranger?
    Kil'jaeden was used more than once and same for Archimonde

    Azshara is still alive somewhere

    No one cares about Grom because his suddenly personality flip at the end of WoD was unexplained

    Pretty much the same thing for all of the other old gods

    He kind of went insane so it's hard to be a master manipulator when your tormented to insanity


    Why don't we talk about characters we've beat and they come back?

    Kael'thas is a prime example...what happened with him? Players found it annoying and made a meme out of him.

    Garrosh was beat, he escaped which lead to the worst expansion the game ever had

    Sylvanas keeps blasting off again and that sure as hell is annoying
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    So in other words we will fight Azshara and N'zoth again?
    @OP this is why they deal with villains in one patch. Because if you don't, people like this guy get mad that we're fighting them again.
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    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    So in other words we will fight Azshara and N'zoth again?

    What's the point? Nazjatar turned out to be a heap of seaweed and Nyalotha was merely some stupid fucking dreamworld wasted on a raid.
    simple.

    they screw up in their first fight so they bring them back in the second which is even worse.

    Archimonde was fought twice via time traveling (big LOL) and died like a pussy in the most hilarious cinematic ever written, not to mention his summoning was so casual as if you were summoning an imp.

    Kil'jaeden was fought twice with once being half summoned (big LOL) and second time he was much smaller for some reason on a lame ass ship where he went to the Twisting Nether where he can be killed which is a very smart decision from him.

    Einstein level of brain right there.

    I guess Blizz was like Archimonde and Kil'jaeden had their two fights in WoW so they will need to act like complete morons and will go to the place so that they can die permanently hence ridding off Sargeras' left and right hand in the most trashy way possible.

    Azshara went all out by the end of the raid and still got her ass kicked in one of the most hilarious and lazy patch ever written.

    N'zoth and Old Gods in general are trash since their retcon.
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2020-07-25 at 05:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    except she was, she literally was experimenting on prisoners men, women, children, soldier, and civilian,
    to try and make a stronger and stronger plague.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Your not gonna win trying to make this one realize the truth.
    Your have better luck curing Corona with lemon and lime juice

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Kyphael's Avatar
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    It's not villains that get the shaft. Look at the heroes. What character is even well-written at the moment? Arguably, Jaina and Varok were the only decent heroes in BfA. Priscilla Ashvane is probably the only villain I liked in all of BfA. She was fun to hate, and was subtly evil. Writing interesting characters in a format of an MMO centered around a faction war neither can win because of game play, where lore self-admittedly takes a backseat to game play is extremely challenging. I gave up relying on a good story from Blizzard, and just appreciate when they do write an interesting story or arc, like Daughter of the Sea which includes Priscilla Ashvane, and then Varok Saurfang's complete story arc.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Nzoth, hyped up since cata, dies in 1 patch
    So i guess him being behind half the Old God stuff since the beginning of Cata doesn't count for anything?

    By your logic nearly every boss in WoW died in one patch, since apparently you only count their physical appearances, even if their actions have been affecting us for years.

  14. #14
    A lot of the accomplishments are "off screen" which never works. Sargeras reportedly destroyed countless worlds. But we never see any of it. All we see is Sargeras failing to destroy Azeroth repeatedly. So Sargeras LOOKS very very weak and pathetic. The writers don't seem to get the idea that showing is more important than telling.

    Sylvanas beating Lich King Bolvar was probably the biggest victory by a villain in years, and even THEN, it wasn't clear that Bolvar was a good guy, and its more along the lines of an opening victory for the villain in every xpac.

  15. #15
    They have to. The way the game works, you see them die thousands of times.
    Its harder to write a purpose for a character and have it have any permanence past the patch where it dies thousands of times a day.
    People would REALLY get sick of the character if they encounter it that often for 2 years instead of just 6 months.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    N'Zoth did not die in one patch, he hid himself inside Xal'atath to free himself from Azeroth's surface. He's likely off to work on claiming the true prize.

    This is head canon.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Kil’jaeden, the most influental villain in all of warcraft. Swept under the rug in one patch. He should have been the final boss, not argus

    Archimonde, appears out of nowhere and dies permanently

    Azshara, one of the most hyped villains in all of warcraft, had like 3 MINOR appearances ingame (Darkshore, WoT, and broken isles) before being swept under the rug

    Grommash, dies off screen

    Nzoth, hyped up since cata, dies in 1 patch

    Deathwing, a master manipulator, instead is just a big dragon that breathes fire

    Did kelthuzad even do anything outside of naxxramas? Literally the master of the scourge behind only the lich king

    It gets incredibly lame after a while. Why can’t we have villains that do amazing crazy stuff and not fail all the time? Prehaps stop making every character a mary sue. Azshara destroyed Aszuna with a snap of her fingers but can’t take on a human mage and a ranger?
    TIL Grom died

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    @OP this is why they deal with villains in one patch. Because if you don't, people like this guy get mad that we're fighting them again.
    Because it's a contrived way of doing it. He's dead for all intents and purposes. People want a villain who isn't destroyed and keeps up a good fight or goes away without being obliterated.

  19. #19
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitRefresh View Post
    TIL Grom died
    MU Grom died in WC3, sacrificing himself to kill Mannoroth and save Thrall (and also ending the Blood-Curse on the Orcs due to drinking Mannoroth's blood).
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    This is head canon.
    It's the only decent explanation I've heard for the Xal'atath subplot in BfA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

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