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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Huzzaa View Post
    Garbage, to an extent. And then if even. Is it really?

    None of the examples you provided were a problem for me, outside of actual lag on my end or the server, ever.

    What I would recommend is try and swap your TCP congestion algorithm to CTCP. It changes the way the game feels, a lot. Try it out. And perhaps do some QoS, AQM on your outbound WAN if you know the terms. That also helps, a lot.

    These examples you provided are proof of poor overall network performance on your end more or less.

    The lag you're probably referring to is the server lag in the outside open world and that is because of their anticheat system. Also, at times, because a World Boss is up and overloading the servers CPU/reaching allocated pods limits.
    It's not just on my end. I'm sure there's things I could do to mitigate it, and I might look into the stuff you suggested, but claiming the issues aren't real is dishonest.

    Blink being broken is just a fact.
    3D position detection being awful is also a fact.
    Movement detection being awful is a fact. There's a reason you get hit by things you're not in on your screen, because the server hasn't updated your position yet, because it doesn't properly do so until you stop moving. That's why jumping out of mechanics is a bad idea, because your position isn't properly updated until you land. It's also why mechanics like the "control your movement" decree on Queen's Court or the hot foot vision affix are so bad at detecting when you actually move.

    And yes, the world lag during Battle for Nazjatar/world bosses is pretty bad as well, but that's more an issue of hardware limitations(to some extent caused by poor software)
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  2. #82
    It's always been speculated that deep down in the guts of the WoW code the "kernel" is a modified WC3 engine. However there's a part in John Staats' book where he mentions that code being redone, so we don't know. I know at one point Blizzard did say the fact the deep internals is a modified WC3 engine is the reason why we couldn't have larger backpack slots (that it wasn't just a matter of changing a variable somewhere) but who knows.

    It's clear that over the years they've redone more and more of the game's code. So it's possible that there is nothing left of the original engine.

  3. #83
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Spoken like someone who clearly has zero understanding of programming.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    This isn't really an example of it at all. My point was less that it isn't "true housing" and more that the thing that Blizzard described in the same announcement where they claimed Garrisons were housing did not ever actually even come out. When they called it housing, they also said it was going to allow you to choose a location in the world, and that you would be able to decorate and customize it extensively.

    It's very very obvious they didn't have the time or means to implement Garrisons as they were actually intended to be designed when they called them "player housing". They're all the same, with the layouts being nearly identical save for a select few buildings and almost no customization to be had.

    Also, this isn't an argument. Are people on MMO-C incapable of discussing something without acting like we're having a debate? Bringing fallacies into what I thought was a casual thread about discussion devolved into bickering semantics. You people are pedantic to a kind of pathetic degree sometimes.
    No, you're pretty much doing it perfectly.

    "We have player housing."
    "Here's player housing."
    "That sucks. We want true player housing."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDruid96 View Post
    I read it has been rewritten, that the reason you couldn't fly in the old world was because of how it was programed but since the cataclysm expansion they redid the old world and that's why you can fly there now.
    Reason was it wasn't finished. Besides spots where flight paths would take you over mountainous boundaries there was nothing up there. Silvermoon City, for instance, is nothing more than a cardboard cutout of a city, there's videos on it. They had to go over the entire world and fill in empty spots, fill in holes, put in trees and other doodads, and other work like that. They didn't want to have to go through that again, which is why Silvermoon and Azuremyst have never been updated and remain off on little islands of their own on the Outland server, not on the server with the rest of their continents.
    One of the most difficult things for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    "We have player housing."
    "Here's player housing."
    "That sucks. We want true player housing."
    When I say "player housing" I mean a properly fleshed out system that isn't just an instanced one-expansion feature. I'm aware that Blizzard once called garrisons WoW's "take on player housing", however that was also when they said you would be able to choose the location of your garrison and that it would be completely customizable. That's really not what we got.

    Their "take on player housing" literally never came out.
    If you reply to me with a full essay I'm probably not going to bother reading it, sorry.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    No, you're pretty much doing it perfectly.

    "We have player housing."
    "Here's player housing."
    "That sucks. We want true player housing."
    Uhm... garrisons were not player housing. It was a "solo player hub" that you cannot customize.
    Even when wod was current nobody ever said on garrisons "housing".

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Uhm... garrisons were not player housing. It was a "solo player hub" that you cannot customize.
    Even when wod was current nobody ever said on garrisons "housing".
    Except Blizzard.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post

    • Player-Made Outposts, Villages and Towns: I feel like Cata and BFA would have been the the two expansions to introduce this though it is true we got an outpost in WoD. How about being able to build an Outpost and Village (Horde) or Town (Alliance)? Outposts would be single-player controlled while Villages and Towns would be controlled by a Guild or a group of players. Both types would have NPC Guards and be fully customizable.
    • New Professions - Logging and Quarry: You can now make use of the world's natural resources by harvesting and processing resources to make building materials. More can also now be done with all existing professions as well.
    • New Profession - Farming: With your own land, you can now manage a farm! Hunters, Shaman and Druids will have a few additional options available to them.
    • Create Spell or Skill: What if you could create your own abilities? Imagine a Protection Warrior being able to equip two Shields and suffer very little damage. A Warlock can Summon and Control ALL of their Minions at once. Shaman can literally terraform the world itself. These are just a few of the many possabilities!
    • Multi-Casting: What's better than casting one spell? Several! Imagine to either cast the same spell several times at once or a few abilities at the same time. A Mage can open Portals to several places. A Priest can cast Resurrection or 2 or more party/raid Members. Hunter's Mark can be applied to several targets at once. Just a few ideas.
    • Spell or Skill Save: This would come in real handy against bosses and in PvP: You que a Spell or Skill to use it a little later.
    • Skill or Spell Upgrading: The more you use your skills, the more powerful and potent they become. Not just in numbers but they actually evolve and become more powerful. For example a Mage's Fireball can be upgraded to take longer to cast but exchange it will do more damage and stun the opponent. A Death Knight's Raise Undead can be upgraded so they can summon and control several types of Undead. A Priest's Smite Spell can be upgraded so it does splash damage with a knockback effect to the main target. Stuff like that.


    Just a few things I literally just thought of just now. LOL. Of course, I know most of these would never actually happen even with new Source Code.
    I don't think farming is a hard thing to put in as they already did that in MoP, and as for player housing, they can simply just make it phase like how it worked for the farm in MoP and the garrison in WoD. Player housing is something that can easily be added in if blizzard actually try to do it, just look at garrison; it was close to it except blizzard wanted garrison to play too much of a role in the expansion that they limited the ability players can customize stuff and made it only reflect things happing in WoD. Also the things about spells, those are just the choices blizzard made for the spells; all the stuff you wanted added can easily be added into the game if blizzard wanted to like your mage fireball thing, in legion mage could increase the cost of casting certain abilities to do more dmg.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    Except Blizzard.
    Even blizzard didn't say it was.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Uhm... garrisons were not player housing. It was a "solo player hub" that you cannot customize.
    Even when wod was current nobody ever said on garrisons "housing".

    Wow, you guys just keep doubling down on that fallacy.
    One of the most difficult things for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    It's not just on my end. I'm sure there's things I could do to mitigate it, and I might look into the stuff you suggested, but claiming the issues aren't real is dishonest.

    Blink being broken is just a fact.
    3D position detection being awful is also a fact.
    Movement detection being awful is a fact. There's a reason you get hit by things you're not in on your screen, because the server hasn't updated your position yet, because it doesn't properly do so until you stop moving. That's why jumping out of mechanics is a bad idea, because your position isn't properly updated until you land. It's also why mechanics like the "control your movement" decree on Queen's Court or the hot foot vision affix are so bad at detecting when you actually move.

    And yes, the world lag during Battle for Nazjatar/world bosses is pretty bad as well, but that's more an issue of hardware limitations(to some extent caused by poor software)
    Interpolating.

    Try and mitigate it on your end. They do a lot of interpolating.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    It's so weird to me that to this day WoW doesn't have any kind of legitimate housing system. It's such a basic and really enjoyable part of other MMOs I've played and it seems like such an obvious thing to get people immersed in your world, to literally let them own a piece of it (instanced or otherwise).
    Has nothing to do with the engine. It is a design preference not to have them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Uhm... garrisons were not player housing. It was a "solo player hub" that you cannot customize.
    Even when wod was current nobody ever said on garrisons "housing".
    Dude you are so wrong. The common phrase and sentiment were Garrisons was Blizzards take on housing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's always been speculated that deep down in the guts of the WoW code the "kernel" is a modified WC3 engine. However there's a part in John Staats' book where he mentions that code being redone, so we don't know. I know at one point Blizzard did say the fact the deep internals is a modified WC3 engine is the reason why we couldn't have larger backpack slots (that it wasn't just a matter of changing a variable somewhere) but who knows.

    It's clear that over the years they've redone more and more of the game's code. So it's possible that there is nothing left of the original engine.
    There may be some, which would be reasons why the back pack took so long to change, but it's obviously not the WC engine from 1999-2002 anymore.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Dude you are so wrong. The common phrase and sentiment were Garrisons was Blizzards take on housing.
    It was their take on housing... by removing everything that made it housing and turning it into facebook minigame.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    It was their take on housing... by removing everything that made it housing and turning it into facebook minigame.
    Not really the point of the discussion though. The guy I quoted said no one made that claim that Garrisons were housing. Blizzard never made that claim, but many player did and many threads here held the same sentiment.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurabolt View Post
    ...Or rather its source code to be more specific.

    I've always wondered why Blizzard never just remade the game's source code and more so almost 10 expansions later. I feel like at this point it's time for that big a change. I get the whole "Don't fix what isn't broken" point but what if the fact that WoW uses the WCIII's source code is limiting how much and what kinds of changes to the game that could be made?
    The original engine was apparently borrowed from wc3, but they have constantly upgraded it over the years and there is no resemblance to what they rolled out in original vanilla. And they are not restricted from doing anything you suggested due to the current engine - they are only limited by whether they deem it a good idea or not.

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