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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hm..okay...still an estimate, but interesting. Also..if it is a couple thousand a day, that shines a light on how active WoW still is..I mean..we are talking almost a million transfers a year....at least 750 000.

    There is an interesting story behind all this...which I can't quite grasp....not with the numbers of guilds successfully clearing mythic raids being so low.



    Okay..so you really switch guilds that often? Why are guilds so fickle and often disintegrate....well..and why always o many characters to transfer. 2k euros...crazy...for somebody like me who so far spend 25 euros on one (in the end useless) race change

    Seriously curious...maybe I got lucky with my guild while I raided and we stuck together for 8 years. Or is it really shooting for cutting edge mythic.?
    Meant a couple of thousand dollars not transfers...

    Issues come up with raid schedules and what classes are needed by each guild. The mega servers help but it seems like a hurdle that doesn't need to exist.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Meant a couple of thousand dollars not transfers...

    Issues come up with raid schedules and what classes are needed by each guild. The mega servers help but it seems like a hurdle that doesn't need to exist.
    Right, cheers for clearing that up.

    Well..with more an more realms connected, maybe we do get that mega realm in each region one day. Or..at least one pvp, pve, rp etc ...realm. But ofc there are people vary of this for their own reasons.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Right, cheers for clearing that up.

    Well..with more an more realms connected, maybe we do get that mega realm in each region one day. Or..at least one pvp, pve, rp etc ...realm. But ofc there are people vary of this for their own reasons.
    People are going to gravitate to the larger servers over time anyway. More people playing on the server means more guilds means more people interested in moving. The issue that WoW has, however, is that there are a lot of people who return for the beginning of expansions and simply shutting down inactive servers would have a huge impact on these returning players. If I were to wager a guess, this is the biggest reason Blizzard does not do straight-up realm mergers. Put yourself in the shoes of some dude who rolled on a server back in Vanilla. You quit the game ages ago but still pop in and level a toon to max for each new expansion. You've just bought Shadowlands and you're ready to load up your toon... and the server it was on doesn't exist anymore. This is a terrible experience for returning players. Blizzard doesn't want to connect all servers, either, because as -- despite what lofty forum posters will suggest -- realm identity does mean something for players and eliminating the concept of realms is something which effectively erases more than a decade of history on a realm. Blizzard, again, wants to steer clear of these kinds of solutions. We can debate endlessly about whether Blizzard is acting in the best interest of its playerbase with the decisions it makes but the problem is a lot more complicated than most people suggest and the solution of "just make everything a megaserver" is one which addresses none of the nuanced reasons Blizzard hasn't already moved in this direction. Then you add the pointless cynicism of "Blizzard just wants to rub their nipples and charge for server transfers" into the equation and it just becomes a very frustrating topic to approach with any amount of pragmatism.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I mean, you'd basically bury the last bastion where the concept of a "guild" actually matters.

    Also, it while it would lift barriers to enter a Mythic guild, it would make them far more unstable because people might just fuck off the moment they're stuck on a certain boss, because they don't have to transfer 3+ characters to another server.

    While it would be an obvious QoL change, i'd rather see them reinforce the idea of guilds actually mattering again (in general, not just Mythic guilds), because a lot of the "Meta" related issues might resolve itself to some extent once people start to play with people they want to play rather than just strangers because it's more convenient.

    That aside, people transferring 3+ characters when they join a Mythic guild is basically worth of someone subbing for 4-5 months.
    This simply isnt true. There are plenty of big servers with 20+ Cutting edge guilds and we are not seeing this behaviour in any big numbers at all there.

    The only reason mythic raiding is still limited to server is becasue blizzard wants that cash from transfer services.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  5. #65
    Confused on the question.
    You mean why isn't it a permanent addition, instead of locked behind Hall of Fame progression?
    That should be quite obvious.
    Because you are supposed to be in the guild in order to get hall of fame.

    If it was fully cross realmed, there would be huge groups of people doing cutting edge without being in a guild and it would defeat the whole purpose.
    Not to mention boosting for Hall of Fame.
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This simply isnt true. There are plenty of big servers with 20+ Cutting edge guilds and we are not seeing this behaviour in any big numbers at all there.

    The only reason mythic raiding is still limited to server is becasue blizzard wants that cash from transfer services.
    Ah yes, the good ol "no real Mythic guild experiences this behavior." Any other shitty logical fallacies you'd like to use to support your imaginary claim?

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This simply isnt true. There are plenty of big servers with 20+ Cutting edge guilds and we are not seeing this behaviour in any big numbers at all there.
    Imagine that an entire region is made up by more than 20 Cutting edge guilds.

    Add like two digits to that number, that might be a little closer.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Okay..so you really switch guilds that often? Why are guilds so fickle and often disintegrate....well..and why always o many characters to transfer. 2k euros...crazy...for somebody like me who so far spend 25 euros on one (in the end useless) race change

    Seriously curious...maybe I got lucky with my guild while I raided and we stuck together for 8 years. Or is it really shooting for cutting edge mythic.?
    theoretically i payed about 70% of it with gold i got from boosting m+/mythic raids, i payed with RM back in wrath-mop so is free but some one payed for the tokens

    i play in the top 30s and a guild can slack sometimes and lose its mebers cuz of it, go casual or the players get a better deal. Look for example naowh went from serenety to future to method to limit in what 3? tiers of raiding this happens alot cuz we in the most cases dont recrute from lower rank guilds (palyer brun out and leave in middle of progress kind of deals with those and you are fucked cuz you geared them up and wasted time).
    We basically wander arround in circels and those guild know it and dont take it personaly. If a guild goes from rank 20 to rank 100 cuz of bad planing they expect to lose members.
    And yes sure if the ranks dont matter to you you can stick with a guild for 10 years but this is not my world, i try to get the most out of my 5hrs a day for 2 week raids without gonig ham 12hrs a day like the dudes from the top 1-6 guilds.
    I take 2 weeks of work and raid 5Hrs a day but i still have a GF, a Cat and family i cant just ignore and those 2 weeks of raiding every 6 months is why i play this game

  9. #69
    because realm community would die

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    because realm community would die
    About 8 years to late for that.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    About 8 years to late for that.
    For people who never unsubscribe and play for an entire expansion, sure. But for players who are cyclical and only come back for the beginning of an expansion it's a much different story. These players have likely had characters on what are now dead/dying realms for going on two decades. And since these players conceivably make up a large portion of WoW's playerbase, it makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to fuck with them too much.

    Like seriously, WoD saw a spike of 10M subscribers at the beginning. Tom Chilton famously spilled the tea that early Legion hit the 10M subscriber mark as well. And BfA, despite its unfinished state pre-8.1, was the best selling expansion to-date. If we conservatively estimate the game has about ~2 million subscribers during content droughts like the ones we're in right now then we're talking easily 5-7 million returning players for the beginning of expansions. If anybody doesn't think that the experiences of these players matters because your sweet internet cynicism leads you to believe Blizzard would rather pocket a fucking $25 server transfer fee, I really don't know what the fuck to say.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For people who never unsubscribe and play for an entire expansion, sure. But for players who are cyclical and only come back for the beginning of an expansion it's a much different story. These players have likely had characters on what are now dead/dying realms for going on two decades. And since these players conceivably make up a large portion of WoW's playerbase, it makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to fuck with them too much.

    Like seriously, WoD saw a spike of 10M subscribers at the beginning. Tom Chilton famously spilled the tea that early Legion hit the 10M subscriber mark as well. And BfA, despite its unfinished state pre-8.1, was the best selling expansion to-date. If we conservatively estimate the game has about ~2 million subscribers during content droughts like the ones we're in right now then we're talking easily 5-7 million returning players for the beginning of expansions. If anybody doesn't think that the experiences of these players matters because your sweet internet cynicism leads you to believe Blizzard would rather pocket a fucking $25 server transfer fee, I really don't know what the fuck to say.
    If your gone for a year to a year plus would it matter? Everything on the realm would of changed so much as to be unrecognizable in terms of framiler players.

    I don't think finding out you could group with players from other servers in mythic would be that big of a shock...

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    If your gone for a year to a year plus would it matter? Everything on the realm would of changed so much as to be unrecognizable in terms of framiler players.

    I don't think finding out you could group with players from other servers in mythic would be that big of a shock...
    My reasoning is less about the viability of cross-realm Mythic and more about why Blizzard is apprehensive to do it. The biggest being the realm identity that you say "doesn't matter anymore" when it very clearly does for certain segments of the game's playerbase.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For people who never unsubscribe and play for an entire expansion, sure. But for players who are cyclical and only come back for the beginning of an expansion it's a much different story. These players have likely had characters on what are now dead/dying realms for going on two decades. And since these players conceivably make up a large portion of WoW's playerbase, it makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to fuck with them too much.
    But what are they returning to in your mind? The realm is dead, the guilds and people they used to play with are all gone when they return. There is no more 'community' they were used to. (Not to mention that your idea of 'community' is a fairy tale at this point, not reality). How would providing them people to play with instead of letting them rot on dead servers be 'fucking too much'?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    But what are they returning to in your mind? The realm is dead, the guilds and people they used to play with are all gone when they return. There is no more 'community' they were used to. (Not to mention that your idea of 'community' is a fairy tale at this point, not reality). How would providing them people to play with instead of letting them rot on dead servers be 'fucking too much'?
    ...welcome to the reasons why Blizzard is actively connecting realms right now? Like I've said in my other posts, we can debate endlessly about whether Blizzard is acting in the best interest of its players with the ways that it handles certain aspects of the game. You may personally feel like it's bullshit that Blizzard turns a blind eye to dead/dying realms and lets them stagnate for long periods of time. You may think that Blizzard is intentionally telling people who unfortunately rolled on these servers ages ago that the solution is to pay for a server transfer or deal with it. That's fine. You'll find plenty of people on this forum who agree with this flavor of droll cynicism. My position isn't that Blizzard is providing us with the best solution by slowly connecting dead/dying realms together or that their motivations for doing so will do little more than delay the inevitability of megaservers at some indeterminate point in the games' future. It's simply that many of the proposed solutions you see on this forum are full of reasoning which completely ignores why the game hasn't already moved in this direction; and then, to make it worse, use the droll cynicism I mentioned earlier to paint a picture of Blizzard as an uncaring company who would rather tell you to "fuck off, pay us" than fix all of the games' issues by erasing the concept of realms altogether.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2020-07-28 at 11:55 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    My reasoning is less about the viability of cross-realm Mythic and more about why Blizzard is apprehensive to do it. The biggest being the realm identity that you say "doesn't matter anymore" when it very clearly does for certain segments of the game's playerbase.
    I guess I just can't see it if I'm honest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    ...welcome to the reasons why Blizzard is actively connecting realms right now? Like I've said in my other posts, we can debate endlessly about whether Blizzard is acting in the best interest of its players with the ways that it handles certain aspects of the game. You may personally feel like it's bullshit that Blizzard turns a blind eye to dead/dying realms and lets them stagnate for long periods of time. You may think that Blizzard is intentionally telling people who unfortunately rolled on these servers ages ago that the solution is to pay for a server transfer or deal with it. That's fine. You'll find plenty of people on this forum who agree with this flavor of droll cynicism. My position isn't that Blizzard is providing us with the best solution by slowly connecting dead/dying realms together or that their motivations for doing so will do little more than delay the inevitability of megaservers at some indeterminate point in the games' future. It's simply that many of the proposed solutions you see on this forum are full of reasoning which completely ignores why the game hasn't already moved in this direction; and then, to make it worse, use the droll cynicism I mentioned earlier to paint a picture of Blizzard as an uncaring company who would rather tell you to "fuck off, pay us" than fix all of the games' issues by erasing the concept of realms altogether.
    I mean this is the company that coined the phrases " you think you do but you dont" don't you guys have phones" and " warcraft three reforged"

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I mean this is the company that coined the phrases " you think you do but you dont" don't you guys have phones" and " warcraft three reforged"
    Believe me, I love a good meme and Blizzard hasn't been doing themselves a whole lot of favors the last few years. That said, there's a lot more to the argument for cross-realm raiding and the importance of realm identity to the game than a lot of players tend to present. The issue WoW has with realms is hardly a new one, though, and I'd like to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that the main reason they haven't given into pressure from the playerbase to create megaservers is because they've seen how it's played out in other MMOs (check out this video on WSO that I linked earlier) and would prefer to delay that inevitability as long as possible.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Believe me, I love a good meme and Blizzard hasn't been doing themselves a whole lot of favors the last few years. That said, there's a lot more to the argument for cross-realm raiding and the importance of realm identity to the game than a lot of players tend to present. The issue WoW has with realms is hardly a new one, though, and I'd like to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that the main reason they haven't given into pressure from the playerbase to create megaservers is because they've seen how it's played out in other MMOs (check out this video on WSO that I linked earlier) and would prefer to delay that inevitability as long as possible.
    Wildstar's problem wasn't mega servers it was how awful and grindy its end game was.

    It tried to add ap and covenants without having the cloat blizzard did.

    It offered massive grinds without any previous investment from players. Wow also doesn't really have world content it's a lobby game. If the lobbies can interact it's fine.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    Hey look, another person over-romanticizing the difficulty of TBC. Must have also thought Classic was hard I'd imagine. I remember waltzing around completely destroying all heroic dungeons with my guild about 30 days after BC launched. Most stuff was killed incredibly quick (skipping mechanics) and the longest part of the dungeons is what the longest part is on Classic (and still in on Retail): the actual running time to get through it. LFD could be argued good/bad for a high number of reasons, but the difficulty of the dungeons themselves is definitely not one of them.
    He's not romanticizing it -- he's accurately analyzing it. TBC heroics were tuned with extremely high melee damage and that's a fact. Where a group might have no problem with a Wrath heroic, they would still be torn apart by simple mistakes in a TBC heroic -- especially ones like Shattered Halls, Arcatraz, or the Black Morass.

    Yes, obviously end-game quality players could handle these heroics... why shouldn't they be able to? But, for the rest of the overall population, it was a legitimate challenge and, without a doubt, more challenging than heroics from Wrath, post-nerf Cata, or any later expansion.
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Wildstar's problem wasn't mega servers it was how awful and grindy its end game was.

    It tried to add ap and covenants without having the cloat blizzard did.

    It offered massive grinds without any previous investment from players. Wow also doesn't really have world content it's a lobby game. If the lobbies can interact it's fine.
    WSO clearly had a number of issues but when speaking broad strokes about what ultimately led to its downfall one of the biggest mistakes its developers made was responding to the whims of the community in ways that you often see the people on this forum suggest as "obvious no-brainers."

    Too many players?

    Players: ADD MORE SERVERS, DUH.

    Uh oh, two months later and nobody's playing?

    Players: MERGE ALL SERVERS, DUH.

    Uh oh, now the servers are unstable.

    Players: ADD MORE SERVERS, DUH.

    Meanwhile, the game plummets into freefall and any semblance of community is completely destroyed by the massive swings in how the servers worked.

    The real underlying point I'm making is that if the problem had a solution as "easy" as cross-realm Mythic off the bat, we'd already have seen Blizzard implement it. But apparently simply offering the possibility that the developers aren't actively seeking to make its entire playerbase miserable is enough to get me derisively labeled as a "Blizzard white knight."

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