So why isn't mythic raiding cross realm yet?

[Relapses]

They shouldn't be catering to that slice of playerbase that does split runs anyways.
And if they really wanted to prohibit splitruns they should have just made mythic raid loot account wide for first 1-2 months and done.

Because at this point it doesn't do anything for world first guilds but hinders all the rest of players.

Better yet, get the fuck out with "world first race" to some isolated test realm with static/same gear available so top guilds could "race" there.

Yeah, no. You'd have guilds killing bosses 5-6x a lockout to get trinkets and shit like that. That would definitely trickle down even to the World 1-2k guilds. Mythic raiding is already miserable enough, "solutions" like this really don't help anything.

[Kikazz]

AH is the problem, still.
Sharding and instances are pretty much non-issue now but there are tons of servers that AH lags like crazy.

And it doesn't makes sense to divide by pvp anymore

the issue wouldnt be the AH, they would just boost the capacity and functionality of it,

Having 60+ servers all chunking while being sharded on limited hardware running millions of similtanoius actions, across several different shards and server basis, will be taxing on the hardware,

but limit those Millions of Similatnious actions to one server, and several shards would be better.

and with the post caps coming in, in Shadowlands, it will again make it easier to browse the AH.

that alone will also help.

[kaminaris]

Yeah, no. You'd have guilds killing bosses 5-6x a lockout to get trinkets and shit like that. That would definitely trickle down even to the World 1-2k guilds. Mythic raiding is already miserable enough, "solutions" like this really don't help anything.

Mythic raiding is miserable because it's tuned too high and there are no rolling nerfs to bosses.
Also doesn't help you need 20 people which is just impossible for more casual playerbase.
ID lockout and no cross realm basically locks out pugs.

Tons of artificial gating for the sake of keeping it "prestige".

[goldlock]

Mythic raiding is miserable because it's tuned too high and there are no rolling nerfs to bosses.
Also doesn't help you need 20 people which is just impossible for more casual playerbase.
ID lockout and no cross realm basically locks out pugs.

Tons of artificial gating for the sake of keeping it "prestige".

I can agree to most of this. I can't really think of a good reason for it to not be doable cross server from launch. People are going to split run it regardless.

[kaminaris]

the issue wouldnt be the AH, they would just boost the capacity and functionality of it,

Having 60+ servers all chunking while being sharded on limited hardware running millions of similtanoius actions, across several different shards and server basis, will be taxing on the hardware,

but limit those Millions of Similatnious actions to one server, and several shards would be better.

and with the post caps coming in, in Shadowlands, it will again make it easier to browse the AH.

that alone will also help.

No, we already have sharding so merging servers into one mega cluster isn't an issue at all. From outdoor content perspective nothing would change.
Literally all outdoor content is already merged because of sharding.

AH is the main issue. It's not as simple as "boosting capacity".

[Relapses]

Mythic raiding is miserable because it's tuned too high and there are no rolling nerfs to bosses.
Also doesn't help you need 20 people which is just impossible for more casual playerbase.
ID lockout and no cross realm basically locks out pugs.

Tons of artificial gating for the sake of keeping it "prestige".

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I really don't see the point in making Mythic more PuG-friendly when there are already three other difficulties to choose from which are very PuG friendly.

[Kralljin]

Communities are better, anyways.

I disagree, for reasons i've repeated multiple times in this thread.

What? It's a stretch to say that a statement made without the benefit 10 years of experiencing such a system being gone might be partially/mostly uneducated/wishful thinking?

It is, because it assumes that Blizzard would have never implemented a system akin to the groupfinder.

It is one massive assumption to say that he can solely say this because the system was already implemented, i think he has a modicum self awareness when he's critizing a system within the game he had all the power to remove but can't because people have gotten used to it (similiar to flying).

And again, Morhaime also voiced a similiar sentiment, and i think we can stop the discussion right here if you think that neither the current lead game director nor the former CEO of the company have a clue what they're talking about.

Don't like a specific LFG groups play style?Well before the debuff, you just dropped as soon as you wanted.

Guess why the debuff was implemented..?

Because people (especially tanks) could just drop any group that didn't suit them for an instant requeue, whereas those were now left stranded in the dungeon waiting for a tank, which then needed priority over other groups so they could continue, thus prolonged the average wait time for anyone else.

Best of all, the ability to run heroics normally is was left in the game for toughs who really wanted the old system

The game was pretty much incentized you to use it, so no.

Again, it's like saying "if you don't like flying, don't use it", the game has been designed around using the LFD tool for a decent portion of its lifecycle.

It most certainly points to it being a good system, if it was bad other mmo's would have dropped the thing after it so clearly ruined their games.

Maybe those games have a different design where this system doesn't cause the same issues?

Like, it's a serious simplification to say "Other games copied it, thus it must be a success!".

Anecdotal yes, but are you really going to make the bold claim that my experience is some kind of freak outlier? And that almost nobody has found at least a couple of people who they have had fun with and added from LFG/LFR over the years?

Compared to not automated systems? Absolutely.

Because in games like WoW, it is crucial to find similiar minded people, which are easier to find via non automated tools where people set their own standards.

[kaminaris]

We'll have to agree to disagree here. I really don't see the point in making Mythic more PuG-friendly when there are already three other difficulties to choose from which are very PuG friendly.

There is nothing to disagree here because those "difficulties" are pretty much non-existent even for pug.
There is no difficulty if you can clear entire heroic first week with pug.

[Relapses]

There is nothing to disagree here because those "difficulties" are pretty much non-existent even for pug.
There is no difficulty if you can clear entire heroic first week with pug.

You're yet again arguing for either the implementation of a 5th difficulty level between Heroic and Mythic or flexible Mythic raids. You already know where I stand on both of these ideas and I'm not particularly inclined to derail this thread any further. That's why I said I'd agree to disagree. :^)

[kaminaris]

You're yet again arguing for either the implementation of a 5th difficulty level between Heroic and Mythic or flexible Mythic raids. You already know where I stand on both of these ideas and I'm not particularly inclined to derail this thread any further. That's why I said I'd agree to disagree. :^)

And you know very well that this is the only way to remove artificial gates. 5th difficulty is irrelevant since heroic & normal can be merged together.

[Relapses]

And you know very well that this is the only way to remove artificial gates. 5th difficulty is irrelevant since heroic & normal can be merged together.

Again, I don't think these "artificial gates" are bad for the game. You do. And you're free to feel that way. But as long as Mythic remains focused on a very specific segment of the playerbase I really don't see anything changing any time soon.

[kaminaris]

Again, I don't think these "artificial gates" are bad for the game.

Because you have very small horizon and never understood the other side of players. Like most people who only care for themselves.

[Krakan]

Again, I don't think these "artificial gates" are bad for the game. You do. And you're free to feel that way. But as long as Mythic remains focused on a very specific segment of the playerbase I really don't see anything changing any time soon.

I mean it feels bizzare... mythic raiding is the only mode with cross realm restrictions in the game and their reasoning behind it isnt really sensical... cross realm murdered realm communities half a decade ago. Unless realm transfers make bank there isn't a reason not to make mythic raiding cross realm from the get go.

[Kikazz]

No, we already have sharding so merging servers into one mega cluster isn't an issue at all. From outdoor content perspective nothing would change.
Literally all outdoor content is already merged because of sharding.

AH is the main issue. It's not as simple as "boosting capacity".

What i mean is.

if there was one server, with the limitations coming in in Shadowlands, and from that one server, was the posting, but the Auction house was on a standalone server,

as at current they have limited hardware trying to work with 60+ servers,

limiting the servers, and merging all the playerbase into one server per region and type would condense the population, but also allow for some ram to be freed up having not run 60+ servers that are half dead chewing up memory to keep a few people by themselves.

reducing the spread and concentrating it, will allow for less ram to be used, and processing power, on allowing the information to be spread so far.

this will free up a lot of memory to be used elsewhere, as the memory isnt spread across 60+ areas to maintain the same thing, its spread across 2-3 per region (10sh servers tops).

Blizzard adds more regions but some are still housed off of the exact same software that has been around for 15 years.

[kaminaris]

What i mean is.

if there was one server, with the limitations coming in in Shadowlands, and from that one server, was the posting, but the Auction house was on a standalone server,

as at current they have limited hardware trying to work with 60+ servers,

limiting the servers, and merging all the playerbase into one server per region and type would condense the population, but also allow for some ram to be freed up having not run 60+ servers that are half dead chewing up memory to keep a few people by themselves.

reducing the spread and concentrating it, will allow for less ram to be used, and processing power, on allowing the information to be spread so far.

this will free up a lot of memory to be used elsewhere, as the memory isnt spread across 60+ areas to maintain the same thing, its spread across 2-3 per region (10sh servers tops).

Blizzard adds more regions but some are still housed off of the exact same software that has been around for 15 years.

Blizzard doesn't run on "servers" for a good couple of years. They have dynamic clusters now that can be assigned at real time to practically any task.

[Alkizon]

goldlock
LFD was really its own difficulty mode rather then a simple tool... if wrath was balanced like tbc it would never of taken off.

Kralljin
LFD used existing dungeons, nor added another difficulty, i don't see your point.

Mind you, the ones implemented with 3.3 (alongside LFD) were probably more difficult (especially Halls of Reflection) than 3.0 Heroics.

goldlock
I am saying the feature would of died in its crib if wrath heroics resembled tbc heroic. The difficulty was lowered... cata showed how easy it is to break such a system. Players making their own groups is fine but automated groups are always trash.

We talked about it here... and by the way, better scrap "social networks wannabe" stuff together with cross realm one, than adding even more of it.

[goldlock]

We talked about it here... and by the way, better scrap "social networks wannabe" stuff together with cross realm one, than adding even more of it.

I mean kinda but it doesn't really touch on the here and now. The genie is out of the bottle you can't put it back. At this point the only locked content from cross realm is mythic for a few months. Outside of trying to draw in some transfer money I struggle to see why it has that restriction. Realm communities are dead and buried at this point.

[Relapses]

I mean kinda but it doesn't really touch on the here and now. The genie is out of the bottle you can't put it back. At this point the only locked content from cross realm is mythic for a few months. Outside of trying to draw in some transfer money I struggle to see why it has that restriction. Realm communities are dead and buried at this point.

I like how I've given you the exact reason realm communities still matter at least a dozen times throughout this thread and you're still here saying, "must be because Blizzard wants transfer money." Are you being intentionally dense?

[Gorsameth]

I like how I've given you the exact reason realm communities still matter at least a dozen times throughout this thread and you're still here saying, "must be because Blizzard wants transfer money." Are you being intentionally dense?

Because people don't believe your hypothesis that players who come back for a month every patch/expansion care about the history of the server they play on.

[Relapses]

Because people don't believe your hypothesis that players who come back for a month every patch/expansion care about the history of the server they play on.

I've already gone over this: It doesn't matter what players think. It matters what Blizzard thinks. And Blizzard has time and time again mentioned in public-facing discussions that they care about realm communities. Moreover, if you think the concerns of the very few people on dead/dying realms who refuse to pay to transfer yet stay subscribed is somehow more important than the potential of millions of returning players, I really don't know what the fuck to tell you. You're free to have this stupidly cynical take but I really don't think that Blizzard wants to actively inhibit the experiences of the largest subsection of players they have.