So why isn't mythic raiding cross realm yet?

[goldlock]

I think it would really open up more of the end game if players could simply pick any guild that shares a time slot they could meet without shilling over money for a realm transfer.

I know the old reason was realm community...but come on that concept is so dead and buried by now I can't see a good reason to not allow.

Hell Blizz can even swing it as some kinda inclusive thing they are all big on right now.

Edit: I do mean from the start of the tier not after progression is mostly finished for the playerbase

[Kralljin]

I mean, you'd basically bury the last bastion where the concept of a "guild" actually matters.

Also, it while it would lift barriers to enter a Mythic guild, it would make them far more unstable because people might just fuck off the moment they're stuck on a certain boss, because they don't have to transfer 3+ characters to another server.

While it would be an obvious QoL change, i'd rather see them reinforce the idea of guilds actually mattering again (in general, not just Mythic guilds), because a lot of the "Meta" related issues might resolve itself to some extent once people start to play with people they want to play rather than just strangers because it's more convenient.

That aside, people transferring 3+ characters when they join a Mythic guild is basically worth of someone subbing for 4-5 months.

[callipygoustp]

A long over due change.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Got to have some reason for the whales to be constantly transferring around to chase "look at me" clout. Why throw away the income.

[Khallid]

I think it would really open up more of the end game if players could simply pick any guild that shares a time slot they could meet without shilling over money for a realm transfer.

I know the old reason was realm community...but come on that concept is so dead and buried by now I can't see a good reason to not allow.

I personally wouldn't mind cross-realm mythic raids being open, but I don't think that would change anything about realm transfers. You would need guilds to be cross-realm for that to happen, not just the raid.

And as a mythic raider, I can tell you there's no way in hell we're inviting people that don't want to join our guild to do mythic progress. So having the option of cross-realm mythic raid doesn't actually matter without the guilds also being cross-realm.

[goldlock]

I mean, you'd basically bury the last bastion where the concept of a "guild" actually matters.

Also, it while it would lift barriers to enter a Mythic guild, it would make them far more unstable because people might just fuck off the moment they're stuck on a certain boss, because they don't have to transfer 3+ characters to another server.

While it would be an obvious QoL change, i'd rather see them reinforce the idea of guilds actually mattering again (in general, not just Mythic guilds), because a lot of the "Meta" related issues might resolve itself to some extent once people start to play with people they want to play rather than just strangers because it's more convenient.

That aside, people transferring 3+ characters when they join a Mythic guild is basically worth of someone subbing for 4-5 months.

If I am honest I think its time for guilds to kinda be retired... a community is identical to a guild in form and function but allows for more realms to interact.

- - - Updated - - -

I personally wouldn't mind cross-realm mythic raids being open, but I don't think that would change anything about realm transfers. You would need guilds to be cross-realm for that to happen, not just the raid.

And as a mythic raider, I can tell you there's no way in hell we're inviting people that don't want to join our guild to do mythic progress. So having the option of cross-realm mythic raid doesn't actually matter without the guilds also being cross-realm.

Do you see a real difference between a guild and a community in terms of function?

[Toybox]

If I am honest I think its time for guilds to kinda be retired... a community is identical to a guild in form and function but allows for more realms to interact.

- - - Updated - - -



Do you see a real difference between a guild and a community in terms of function?

Practically, no, there's no functional difference, however there's an increased sense of community that's common in guilds that I don't really feel is easily replaced by any other system.

Edit:

I mean, you'd basically bury the last bastion where the concept of a "guild" actually matters.

Also, it while it would lift barriers to enter a Mythic guild, it would make them far more unstable because people might just fuck off the moment they're stuck on a certain boss, because they don't have to transfer 3+ characters to another server.

While it would be an obvious QoL change, i'd rather see them reinforce the idea of guilds actually mattering again (in general, not just Mythic guilds), because a lot of the "Meta" related issues might resolve itself to some extent once people start to play with people they want to play rather than just strangers because it's more convenient.

That aside, people transferring 3+ characters when they join a Mythic guild is basically worth of someone subbing for 4-5 months.

I agree with absolutely all of this.

[God Save The King]

Do you see a real difference between a guild and a community in terms of function?

Communities could be updated to include these features, but for now there are a handful of important distinctions for guilds:

• Guild Bank. An incredibly useful place to congregate materials, donations, and other resources to manage a guild.
• Trading. By forcing guilds to be on the same realm, trading can easily take place between members.
• Tracking/API. Much of the sites like wowprogress and raider.io are built around the guild API. Communities have no outward facing API.
• Design. Communities don't automatically appear in your chat box and are designed for players to join many surrounding one common theme. Their entire point is to have several at once. Guilds are built with bright green text, come with a tag on your character's name, and are an intrinsic part of your player identity in the game. They fill different niches entirely.

It is certainly possible to shift communities to be more like guilds, or merge the two systems. Grant them all banks; allow open trading, regardless of realm, between members; update the API so you can rank communities too; and then let players set a 'main' community that shows the tag and defaults to green text.

[Popastique]

If they can make guilds accept people from other realms - they yes, i would like mythic raiding cross realm to happen when raids are released. If not - then i am against such things.

[Khallid]

Do you see a real difference between a guild and a community in terms of function?

I guess you're right. Communities can replace guilds if they're managed in the same way. Most of what makes a guild function is a collective agreement to play together as long as they remain in the same team, and some general rules that they make up themselves. I forgot communities were a thing xD

[Kralljin]

If I am honest I think its time for guilds to kinda be retired... a community is identical to a guild in form and function but allows for more realms to interact.

Difference is that, as said, you can join any community you like, you can however join only one guild.
Which would lead to guilds below the hardcore level becoming extremely unstable because some people have a superiority complex and believe "it's not my fault we didn't kill this boss" and with a lowered barrier to enter another raid, they can just hop to another raid.

I'm not 100% against it, but it will have some negative consequences and i think Blizzard has to some extent learned that the increase of accesability is not always the recipe for success, especially because you cannot get rid of it once established without indirectly giving a lot of players the middle finger.

[goldlock]

Difference is that, as said, you can join any community you like, you can however join only one guild.
Which would lead to guilds below the hardcore level becoming extremely unstable because some people have a superiority complex and believe "it's not my fault we didn't kill this boss" and with a lowered barrier to enter another raid, they can just hop to another raid.

I'm not 100% against it, but it will have some negative consequences and i think Blizzard has to some extent learned that the increase of accesability is not always the recipe for success, especially because you cannot get rid of it once established without indirectly giving a lot of players the middle finger.

True though I will play devils advocate... sometimes a players is held back by their raid group and it can be extremely frustrating knowing that if others played at a higher level bosses would die in some cases weeks earlier.

I see increased mobility as only a positive but I won't lie I never felt a deep bond with a guild. O I have made close friends with people inside of a guild but never to the organization itself.

[Kralljin]

sometimes a players is held back by their raid group and it can be extremely frustrating knowing that if others played at a higher level bosses would die in some cases weeks earlier.

Problem is that this entire thing can collapse on itself sooner or later because Mythic requires fixed schedules and whatnot, destablizing this is not a good move.

I can most certainly foresee that more people are able to enter Mythic, but less people be able to clear it because killing a boss that requires 300+ wipes will be more difficult when people just attempt to get into the already made bed, rather than make it themselves.

Because those difficult bosses are especially brutal for casual guilds where you spend 4-6 weeks on a single boss.

I see increased mobility as only a positive

People said the same thing about LFD, yet here we are with the Game Director 10 years later admitting that the friction of the "pre LFD" were actually good for the game.

[goldlock]

Problem is that this entire thing can collapse on itself sooner or later because Mythic requires fixed schedules and whatnot, destablizing this is not a good move.

I can most certainly foresee that more people are able to enter Mythic, but less people be able to clear it because killing a boss that requires 300+ wipes will be more difficult when people just attempt to get into the already made bed, rather than make it themselves.

Because those difficult bosses are especially brutal for casual guilds where you spend 4-6 weeks on a single boss.

People said the same thing about LFD, yet here we are with the Game Director 10 years later admitting that the friction of the "pre LFD" were actually good for the game.

LFD was really its own difficulty mode rather then a simple tool... if wrath was balanced like tbc it would never of taken off.

[Kralljin]

LFD was really its own difficulty mode rather then a simple tool... if wrath was balanced like tbc it would never of taken off.

LFD used existing dungeons, nor added another difficulty, i don't see your point.

Mind you, the ones implemented with 3.3 (alongside LFD) were probably more difficult (especially Halls of Reflection) than 3.0 Heroics.

[goldlock]

LFD used existing dungeons, nor added another difficulty, i don't see your point.

Mind you, the ones implemented with 3.3 (alongside LFD) were probably more difficult (especially Halls of Reflection) than 3.0 Heroics.

I am saying the feature would of died in its crib if wrath heroics resembled tbc heroic. The difficulty was lowered... cata showed how easy it is to break such a system. Players making their own groups is fine but automated groups are always trash.

[Elodeon]

Playing on US-Stormrage, I don't so much mind if it's not cross-realm, but I really dislike that it doesn't flex at least 18-22, or such number.

It's truly shitty to have to budget more people than you need (because life gets in the way and someone will not show up), and then you have to sit people if there's too many. The fixed number of people is killer. It's the main reason our guild does most raiding in Heroic and we only dabble in Mythic (whereas we used to complete Heroic when it was the top difficulty). The "bring 20 people, no more and no less" is so anti-social.

I understand developers don't want to tune 10 vs 25. But come on, make it 18-22 at least. Or 17-23.

[Zentail]

LFD was really its own difficulty mode rather then a simple tool... if wrath was balanced like tbc it would never of taken off.

Hey look, another person over-romanticizing the difficulty of TBC. Must have also thought Classic was hard I'd imagine. I remember waltzing around completely destroying all heroic dungeons with my guild about 30 days after BC launched. Most stuff was killed incredibly quick (skipping mechanics) and the longest part of the dungeons is what the longest part is on Classic (and still in on Retail): the actual running time to get through it. LFD could be argued good/bad for a high number of reasons, but the difficulty of the dungeons themselves is definitely not one of them.

[goldlock]

Hey look, another person over-romanticizing the difficulty of TBC. Must have also thought Classic was hard I'd imagine. I remember waltzing around completely destroying all heroic dungeons with my guild about 30 days after BC launched. Most stuff was killed incredibly quick (skipping mechanics) and the longest part of the dungeons is what the longest part is on Classic (and still in on Retail): the actual running time to get through it. LFD could be argued good/bad for a high number of reasons, but the difficulty of the dungeons themselves is definitely not one of them.

I mean of course...?

Why do people think intro tiers should last the entire expansion?

[Mozu]

Difference is that, as said, you can join any community you like, you can however join only one guild.
Which would lead to guilds below the hardcore level becoming extremely unstable because some people have a superiority complex and believe "it's not my fault we didn't kill this boss" and with a lowered barrier to enter another raid, they can just hop to another raid.

I'm not 100% against it, but it will have some negative consequences and i think Blizzard has to some extent learned that the increase of accesability is not always the recipe for success, especially because you cannot get rid of it once established without indirectly giving a lot of players the middle finger.

Yeah, I saw this happen first-hand when they made arena rating personal instead of team-based. People actually tried to work through issues and get better together when rating was stuck to a team. Immediately after that change, people had absolutely no reason to get better together. People now just leave and find other people at the slightest sign of losing.