So why isn't mythic raiding cross realm yet?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If you think the number of Mythic raiders transferring realms during the first two or three months of Mythic progression represents a meaningful amount of income for Blizzard I'd love to sell you some oceanfront property in Denver, CO.

OT: This is the same circular argument as "Why doesn't Blizzard just make megaservers?" And the answer to that is easy: Blizzard doesn't make megaservers because Blizzard doesn't want megaservers. That's why. And Blizzard doesn't allow cross-realm Mythic off the bat for similar reasons. Realm identity does matter (even if in your humble opinion on the internet it doesn't) and completely nullifying something like that is not a direction Blizzard wants to take the game. Sorry guys, daddy Blizzard isn't giving out handouts for you to leave your dead/dying realm for free.

Anyone that thinks something that costs zero to do and earns you 25 per when it's done hundreds if not thousands of times daily at the start, middle, and end of tiers by whiners mad thier guild isn't as fast as Limit, or before the tier drops to buy items for an "edge", or at the end of tiers to scoop up rewards is a damned fool.

Like saying you wouldn't take 5 bucks a day just auto deposited into your account because it's not as much as your pay check from work. Just dumb.

[Garybear]

I mean, you'd basically bury the last bastion where the concept of a "guild" actually matters.

Also, it while it would lift barriers to enter a Mythic guild, it would make them far more unstable because people might just fuck off the moment they're stuck on a certain boss, because they don't have to transfer 3+ characters to another server.

While it would be an obvious QoL change, i'd rather see them reinforce the idea of guilds actually mattering again (in general, not just Mythic guilds), because a lot of the "Meta" related issues might resolve itself to some extent once people start to play with people they want to play rather than just strangers because it's more convenient.

That aside, people transferring 3+ characters when they join a Mythic guild is basically worth of someone subbing for 4-5 months.

The only reason this is a thing is because hardly anyone is bothered to actually do Mythic in the first place.

[goldlock]

Because nobody has ever judged a realm by the number of decent guilds it houses, right?

Again, this is an issue that's easy to pretend is hugely important on forums but has a very easy practical solution in reality: If it means so fucking much to you, transfer your fucking toon. The financial cost of transferring is to prevent people from abusing the tool not to fill Blizzard's coffers as forum-goers often frame it.



I've actually suggested this in prior threads about this subject -- I'd be perfectly fine with Blizzard allowing every player who remains consistently subscribed for a year to get a free realm transfer. The reason Blizzard doesn't do this is because they'd rather roll out patchwork compromises like Connected Realms instead. I don't necessarily agree with this approach because it really is just a stop-gap measure to prevent the inevitability of megaservers but I can at least understand the reasons they don't. (None of them are financially motivated.)

I admit to not understanding how the tool could be abused?

Push comes to shove I can see a better argument for connecting all the servers together gameplay wise as well as economy wise. Your counter point seems to be it matters because mythic raiders need guilds that raid at their times so people pay for realm transfers?

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The cost of a server transfer has absolutely nothing to do with financial remuneration on Blizzard's part. You very clearly suggested that Blizzard would rather lose somebody's subscription than give them a free transfer of their realm. That is definitely not Blizzard's reason for charging for server transfers so I really have no fucking clue what you actually think a reasonable solution would be.

It seems they would... you don't really have an argument besides being annoyed people are questioning the status quo.

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Uh huh. And there's absolutely NO WAY anybody would abuse the server transfer tool if it was free. Nope. Wouldn't happen. You're right. WoW players are scrupulous, great and upstanding human beings who care about the integrity of the game and under no circumstances would they ever misuse a feature which allows them to completely vanish off a server.

What exactly do you think people would do?

[Blackmist]

Got keep that sweet, sweet realm transfer money coming in for running a single SQL statement.

The realm barrier is one that should have been torn down years ago. All the parts are now in place, including an AH that wouldn't just explode under the pressure.

[kenn9530]

The cost of a server transfer has absolutely nothing to do with financial remuneration on Blizzard's part. You very clearly suggested that Blizzard would rather lose somebody's subscription than give them a free transfer of their realm. That is definitely not Blizzard's reason for charging for server transfers so I really have no fucking clue what you actually think a reasonable solution would be.

It doesnt cost them money since the transfers are done automatically, it doesnt matter how many is on a server these days so population size doesnt matter, so all it comes down to is blizz wanting money for services that cost them nothing, might not be so bad if they had a server transfer token that maybe had a 6 month recharge or once a year you can swap all your chars on one realm to another.

[Kralljin]

There should be repercussions to toxic behavior, just as in real life jobs.

And in order to reach a "just sentence", you'd first need to create guidelines what entails as "toxic behavior" and people that look at the full picture.

Like, it's sounds nice in theory but the entire idea of "punishing" toxic behavior is enforced in almost no video game in a decent fashion, most of them rely on automated systems, which are easy to abuse, especially if you have some people on your side.

Maybe someone is justified in leaving a raid, because the raidleader is one massive idiot, then person gets reported by the blind followers of said leader and thus receives a punishment despite having done nothing wrong.

Which leads into the conundrum: what does Blizz have to do to fix that? One option is to just kill the concept of guilds off with the rest of the 'server identity' they tend to bring up often (at which I laugh every time as that has been dead for a while for most players).

With all due respect, reading "how to fix" and "just kill it off" within the same paragraph is a bit weird.

Another option is to fundamentally change the game to where you need to have guilds and socialization to do most activities in the game. SL design looks like it's trying to head in that direction, which is partly why there's so much friction between the players and the devs right now.

It's a bit but let's not forget, key new game mode in SL is Torghast, something that's also entirely soloable.
And if visions are anything to go by, going solo might be once again the "better choice", especially the more convenient one.

And this entire covenant business is a totally different story.

It's an extremely convoluted way of restoring something that they themselves removed, which back then just happened naturally without anyone really questioning it.
But still rests atop a game that removed those very things.

If there is anything the devs should finally embrace, it's design coherence and at this point, WoW basically needs a soft reboot in order to actually achieve this, because its design has turned into massive zigzag over the direction of the game.

When it comes to mythic raiding, recruitment has been harder and harder because aside from killing the actual mythic bosses, all other reasons people typically raided the highest raid content have been mostly replaced by easier/less social experiences like M+.

Of course, wiping 300+ times on a final boss for loot you don't even need (Jaina & G'huun say hi) is a complete travesty.
The time investment / reward equation for Mythic raiding doesn't work in the slightest anymore.

Especially since the weekly chest hands out equivalent loot.

Simple version: there is no single magic bullet to fix the scenario, and most of this is a result of Blizz's design over the years killing the social aspects of WoW by allowing the player base to avoid social interactions and adversity increasingly over time.

I agree on that, but i cannot help and look towards Classic, seeing super trivial content (which is easily puggable) and a lot of people are still favoring guild raiding over pug raiding.
And i think one of the reasons is that being in a guild is just more beneficial as whole rather than just "i got some people to raid with".

[jacktheking]

I mean of course...?

Why do people think intro tiers should last the entire expansion?

I hope they add this or may be unlock this feature when world first or top 100 / 200 guilds have completed it .

[n0n3]

Imo they should just drop the whole realm thing, it should just be US, EU, Asia regions.

[Relapses]

Anyone that thinks something that costs zero to do and earns you 25 per when it's done hundreds if not thousands of times daily at the start, middle, and end of tiers by whiners mad thier guild isn't as fast as Limit, or before the tier drops to buy items for an "edge", or at the end of tiers to scoop up rewards is a damned fool.

Like saying you wouldn't take 5 bucks a day just auto deposited into your account because it's not as much as your pay check from work. Just dumb.

When compared to monthly subscriptions, things like realm transfers represent such a small percentage of Blizzard's income that it's barely worth discussing. I commend you for your super hot take that Blizzard is greedy. I really do. It's truly groundbreaking cynicism that you're displaying. One may even go so far as to call it low hanging fruit. But really, is it really that hard to understand that the cost exists as a fail safe against abuse, not to line Blizzard's pockets?

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It doesnt cost them money since the transfers are done automatically, it doesnt matter how many is on a server these days so population size doesnt matter, so all it comes down to is blizz wanting money for services that cost them nothing, might not be so bad if they had a server transfer token that maybe had a 6 month recharge or once a year you can swap all your chars on one realm to another.

I'd encourage you to read the post where I said I'd be down for this exact idea. The reason I surmise Blizzard doesn't do this, however, is that rather than dumping and merging servers like other MMOs have done (famously, to their detriment [see: WildStar Online]) when faced with similar problems, Blizzard prefers to introduce stop-gaps like Connected Realms instead. FWIW, I think in five to ten years megaservers will be a necessity because dead/dying realms will have gone beyond the point of redemption -- we're not there yet, however, and it seems doubtful Blizzard is going to have an epiphany any time soon.

Also, for the record, I'm not trying to be purposefully contrarian here. I simply find it super fucking annoying that people on forums love to pretend they're geniuses because they think megaservers are the magic panacea this game needs to cure all ailments. Blizzard has had the tech to do this for likely going on a decade now. If Blizzard wanted to move the game in this direction we would have already seen this happen eons ago. There are very clear reasons Blizzard isn't moving in this direction, however, and looking at the situation and coming away with the cynical take that "Blizzard just wants money" is, imo, incredibly shallow and totally dismisses the reasons server transfers actually cost money.

[Kaykay]

So why isn't mythic raiding cross realm yet?

Because blizzard still has a dream about serverpride being a thing with a billion layers, phasing and connected realms that turned the game from a mmo into a lobby game.

They also want to make sure the 5 competitive guilds left in wow, dont faction/server transfer to steal "server firsts" on servers without raiding guilds.

It's a joke, just walk the line and kill servers, make it one big lobby game. There's no meaningfull choice left when choosing a server. Except for roleplay realms.

[Utrrabbit]

Because it is a horrible idea and any person who thinks otherwise is wrong.

[Argorwal]

And in order to reach a "just sentence", you'd first need to create guidelines what entails as "toxic behavior" and people that look at the full picture.

Like, it's sounds nice in theory but the entire idea of "punishing" toxic behavior is enforced in almost no video game in a decent fashion, most of them rely on automated systems, which are easy to abuse, especially if you have some people on your side.

Maybe someone is justified in leaving a raid, because the raidleader is one massive idiot, then person gets reported by the blind followers of said leader and thus receives a punishment despite having done nothing wrong.


With all due respect, reading "how to fix" and "just kill it off" within the same paragraph is a bit weird.

It's a bit but let's not forget, key new game mode in SL is Torghast, something that's also entirely soloable.
And if visions are anything to go by, going solo might be once again the "better choice", especially the more convenient one.

And this entire covenant business is a totally different story.

It's an extremely convoluted way of restoring something that they themselves removed, which back then just happened naturally without anyone really questioning it.
But still rests atop a game that removed those very things.

If there is anything the devs should finally embrace, it's design coherence and at this point, WoW basically needs a soft reboot in order to actually achieve this, because its design has turned into massive zigzag over the direction of the game.

Of course, wiping 300+ times on a final boss for loot you don't even need (Jaina & G'huun say hi) is a complete travesty.
The time investment / reward equation for Mythic raiding doesn't work in the slightest anymore.

Especially since the weekly chest hands out equivalent loot.

I agree on that, but i cannot help and look towards Classic, seeing super trivial content (which is easily puggable) and a lot of people are still favoring guild raiding over pug raiding.
And i think one of the reasons is that being in a guild is just more beneficial as whole rather than just "i got some people to raid with".

For classic at least, guilds are favored for 2 reasons:

1) Scarcity of loot and having ML to make sure loot that does drop goes where it should.

2) Raid ID lockouts making sure you get a full clear and not having some trolls wreck your weekly raid.

[Hellspawn]

Cross realm and cross faction.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

They're not free? Hello? What are you even arguing here?

they are free i never payed € for them since the token came out, i boost keys on the start of a patch for 700k gold a key in 1h i have nuff gold for 2 server transfers + game time, ofc you cant do it as a dogshit player but again those palyers never server trans for progress anyway.

Again..is that a reality? How much do ppl transfer. Can you do it constantly? Why would you? Why would you not transfer to that one awesome realm and be done with it. is there data how big that pile of "sweet, sweet realm transfer money" is?

We raider pay alot for trasfers cuz progress player have to trans 5+ chars if we swtich a guild (this can happens alot of times if you care about worldranks) even tho we dont pay for it some one pay it in terms of tokens and blizz get even more of a cut i personaly spend maybe 2k+ euro worth of trasfers in my 13 years of progress raiding, and casuals and fanboys transfer too to realms were the top dogs play i know a bunch of them

[Krakan]

Well..since people keep mentioning whales contributing to WoW still not being dead...I wondered how they do it..couldn't be the cash shop...there is only so much in it. But here we finally have a clue. "Transferring around"

Be a dear and share your info on how many actually do it...I am desperate to get behind the secret how whales in WoW keep the game alive and contribute to the income.



Again..is that a reality? How much do ppl transfer. Can you do it constantly? Why would you? Why would you not transfer to that one awesome realm and be done with it. is there data how big that pile of "sweet, sweet realm transfer money" is?

I imagine it's a couple thousand a day. I don't really get the argument of busniessing hating money myself but the current generation is weird when it comes to consumerism

Issue usually is raid times and guilds only needing certain classes at certain times.

[Unholyground]

Guilds should be cross all servers, some seem to think that would make bonds weaker, I say the opposite because it gives people more options to end up in a guild that truly suits them without the daunting task of leveling a new character as most people will not spend the absurd amounts they expect for automated systems like character transfers. The truth is I would be able to play with a bunch more people that I know who play that made their homes on other servers simple as that. I have at least 10 on my friends list that have homes elsewhere but this kind of change would bring us together undoubtedly.

They are dropping gender change, I imagine over time more of their paid services will become free but character transfers are a hollow exchange for our cash that make 0 sense anymore with everything being connected for over 10 years.

[Krakan]

Hm..okay...still an estimate, but interesting. Also..if it is a couple thousand a day, that shines a light on how active WoW still is..I mean..we are talking almost a million transfers a year....at least 750 000.

There is an interesting story behind all this...which I can't quite grasp....not with the numbers of guilds successfully clearing mythic raids being so low.



Okay..so you really switch guilds that often? Why are guilds so fickle and often disintegrate....well..and why always o many characters to transfer. 2k euros...crazy...for somebody like me who so far spend 25 euros on one (in the end useless) race change

Seriously curious...maybe I got lucky with my guild while I raided and we stuck together for 8 years. Or is it really shooting for cutting edge mythic.?

Meant a couple of thousand dollars not transfers...

Issues come up with raid schedules and what classes are needed by each guild. The mega servers help but it seems like a hurdle that doesn't need to exist.

[Relapses]

Right, cheers for clearing that up.

Well..with more an more realms connected, maybe we do get that mega realm in each region one day. Or..at least one pvp, pve, rp etc ...realm. But ofc there are people vary of this for their own reasons.

People are going to gravitate to the larger servers over time anyway. More people playing on the server means more guilds means more people interested in moving. The issue that WoW has, however, is that there are a lot of people who return for the beginning of expansions and simply shutting down inactive servers would have a huge impact on these returning players. If I were to wager a guess, this is the biggest reason Blizzard does not do straight-up realm mergers. Put yourself in the shoes of some dude who rolled on a server back in Vanilla. You quit the game ages ago but still pop in and level a toon to max for each new expansion. You've just bought Shadowlands and you're ready to load up your toon... and the server it was on doesn't exist anymore. This is a terrible experience for returning players. Blizzard doesn't want to connect all servers, either, because as -- despite what lofty forum posters will suggest -- realm identity does mean something for players and eliminating the concept of realms is something which effectively erases more than a decade of history on a realm. Blizzard, again, wants to steer clear of these kinds of solutions. We can debate endlessly about whether Blizzard is acting in the best interest of its playerbase with the decisions it makes but the problem is a lot more complicated than most people suggest and the solution of "just make everything a megaserver" is one which addresses none of the nuanced reasons Blizzard hasn't already moved in this direction. Then you add the pointless cynicism of "Blizzard just wants to rub their nipples and charge for server transfers" into the equation and it just becomes a very frustrating topic to approach with any amount of pragmatism.

[Aphrel]

I mean, you'd basically bury the last bastion where the concept of a "guild" actually matters.

Also, it while it would lift barriers to enter a Mythic guild, it would make them far more unstable because people might just fuck off the moment they're stuck on a certain boss, because they don't have to transfer 3+ characters to another server.

While it would be an obvious QoL change, i'd rather see them reinforce the idea of guilds actually mattering again (in general, not just Mythic guilds), because a lot of the "Meta" related issues might resolve itself to some extent once people start to play with people they want to play rather than just strangers because it's more convenient.

That aside, people transferring 3+ characters when they join a Mythic guild is basically worth of someone subbing for 4-5 months.

This simply isnt true. There are plenty of big servers with 20+ Cutting edge guilds and we are not seeing this behaviour in any big numbers at all there.

The only reason mythic raiding is still limited to server is becasue blizzard wants that cash from transfer services.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Confused on the question.
You mean why isn't it a permanent addition, instead of locked behind Hall of Fame progression?
That should be quite obvious.
Because you are supposed to be in the guild in order to get hall of fame.

If it was fully cross realmed, there would be huge groups of people doing cutting edge without being in a guild and it would defeat the whole purpose.
Not to mention boosting for Hall of Fame.