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  1. #21
    they should keep baseline m+ simple. kiss/curse stuff most likely will just lead to more class stacking and blaming people "for not getting their buff" or w/e when something goes wrong.

    i'm all for adding it as some sort of optional extra (minor) reward for extra risk thing though.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by taishar68 View Post
    The changes I'd like to see are related more to balance and inclusion.

    For balance, ensure that trash packs are positioned in a way that minimizes the (seemingly) overwhelming advantage that Door of Shadows has over the other covenant abilities for M+. Another option could be to make sure the amount of mobs needed to fill the bar makes too many skips impractical, which adds organic balance.

    For inclusion, I'd like to see + keys, up to a limit, added to the LFG auto-queue. To be honest, it is the kind of thing that could swing badly, and there isn't anything inherently wrong with the current system, but here is how I would implement it:

    You would queue for any M+ up to 9, with gear checks based on 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, where 1-3 has a minimum level, and so on.
    You can only queue for dungeons at or below the highest key you have for the week, with 9 still being the max.
    You can only queue for dungeons that you have at least completed on Heroic.
    Door of shadows is poised to be powerful in mythic+ ...
    They even buffed it more by giving it 2x charges while removing the instant cast...
    You cant make dungoens have very few skips... that would not be fun
    But door of shadows is too op and cant be balanced unless redesigned completely

  3. #23
    The kiss-curse system is more dull. Basically, all give dmg buff.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just changing some affixes is all it needs.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    Honestly part of the reason I am so skeptical of Covenants is because of how they have treated m+, the highest participation content with the least effort on their part. Two years into the expansion, dungeons and affixes still have massive disparities in difficulty, and the class meta remains very problematic.
    I totally agree and I wonder why so few people complain about this. M+ tuning feels very neglected, it's like they don't even recognize any of the problems. Unless prot warriors start to outdamage everyone that is.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    My grevious idea is not about kiss/curse only

    Its about incentivizing dps to not get dmged by some avoidable mechanics to not lose the buff
    They're already incentivized to do that because they don't want to die.

    I don't have a problem with the general idea of kiss/curse, but your particular suggestions strike me as causing just as many problems as they propose to fix. They also don't really address many of the main complaints I've seen about M+, which go far beyond just the nature of the affixes.

  6. #26
    Pandaren Monk taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Door of shadows is poised to be powerful in mythic+ ...
    They even buffed it more by giving it 2x charges while removing the instant cast...
    You cant make dungoens have very few skips... that would not be fun
    But door of shadows is too op and cant be balanced unless redesigned completely
    I know it looks very powerful, that is why we need balance to it.
    If a dungeon is only fun if you can avoid packs all the time, then it is designed badly; they didn't make Mythic dungeons thinking "every group will have 3 rogues so you can skip trash every 2 minutes", and they have to design Mythics to be doable by a group of 5 non-rogues who don't have DoS. If the dungeons are designed in a way that minimizes the value of using DoS to avoid packs, it will be balanced by the other abilities. That said, I am sure there are some folks that will demand you have it if it meant skipping just one pack, but that's an extreme example.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Plus i think they should increase time limit and make deaths matter more, let 1 death remove like 25sec but increase overall time too
    Affixes should reward players for good play, but never harm them for the bad play of others.

    Your idea of a buff if you stay out of grievous is good, because it incentivices players to avoid unnecessary damage. But increasing the death penalty to 25s means a full wipe is more than 2 mins off which in many cases would beinsta deplete. This will only increase toxicity in pugs.

    I also like kiting mobs into volcanos, but it might be hard to pull off because they spawn on ranged players. Another suggestion for that: make volcanos throwable like the little bombs in Motherlode first boss (off the gcd and not by clicking but via /extraactionbutton and standing near them).

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Hello
    Very few changes or new things are coming to the shadowlands mythic+ system even though its one of the most played feature
    So here is some things that have to change
    1) Rework affixes into kiss-curse so they dont only slow the dungeon down, here is how to do it: all the affixes below retain the same effect in addition to
    - Grevious: while above 90% hp, gain X primary stat, while below 90% you get increasingly damaged
    - Sanguine: Standing in the pools causes it to shrink and deals increasing damage to you, when its totally shrinked you gain 5% damage increase for 15sec : this would allow you to remove some sanguine pools and gain minor dmg increase at the cost of increasing damage and make it bearable in dungoens like waycrest

    - Raging: Same + When you reach 30% hp, you enrage dealing 25% more damage and taking 100% more damage except for tank

    - Volcanic : same but you can now move mobs to volcanic, causing them to take damage. And volcanic will trigger one more time in the same location after 3sec. So people dont ignore it and giving time to move adds

    - Quaking : same but if you do trigger the explosion near mobs they will take X dmg. This makes the party get near adds while quaking and making it a little bit harder for them to not hit each other!

    - Explosive : same but if an explosive orb was able to finish its cast, it will deal dmg to the party and mobs too(not % dmg). Some groups might be able to survive 1 or more casts!

    - Etc, all affixes can be reworked

    2) New affixes :
    - Eye of the jailor: Every 1min a mob will spawn and fixate on a target, that gains increasing movement speed and dmg. The mob must be killed asap. When it dies it will drop an orb that increases dmg/healing for the target that was fixated on by 10% for 10sec to offset the loss in dps due to kiting
    - Force of winds: Every 1min all people will be pushed forward by 25 yards, This push might make you aggro mobs if you dont turn/position well
    - Reaping etc
    3) Remove fortified/Tyrannical
    - Bosses feel like trash with fortified, and tyrannical is way too much hp, just remove both of this and increase both boss/trash hp and dmg equally.
    4) Seasonal affixes : Replace it with lvl 10 affix, since some affixes like infested/beguiling ruin a season. Make it rotate weekly like the others. Create new affixes!

    5) Let deaths matter more than time, currently 1 death removes 5sec. What if you increased time limit by 50% and made deaths remove like 20sec each ? Numbers can change

    What are your thoughts... 4 years of the same system with little changes
    Yes we gonna get 8 new dungoens but we need some new affixes too or they gonna become boring fast
    Very little attention is given to mythic+ ... and too much on covenants and torghast
    Just wanted to say that there is more reasonable creativity in this post than Blizzard has brought to the affix idea for 3 expansions now including the new SL.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharnie786 View Post
    The kiss-curse system is more dull. Basically, all give dmg buff.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just changing some affixes is all it needs.
    Its not about dmg buffs, but to change the way you do the dungoen, for ex you can use defensives and allow 2 explosive casts to help you kill mobs faster without die etc
    In the end yes the benefits is dmg/faster run but the way you trigger it is different

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamercus View Post
    Just wanted to say that there is more reasonable creativity in this post than Blizzard has brought to the affix idea for 3 expansions now including the new SL.
    Thanks man! This dont even need much thinking or work. It just needs few programming developers to change how they work and can be done in less than a week!
    The lack of any meaningful changes for mythic+ is worrying
    We have the same affixes for 4 years now.. time for something new

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Affixes should reward players for good play, but never harm them for the bad play of others.

    Your idea of a buff if you stay out of grievous is good, because it incentivices players to avoid unnecessary damage. But increasing the death penalty to 25s means a full wipe is more than 2 mins off which in many cases would beinsta deplete. This will only increase toxicity in pugs.

    I also like kiting mobs into volcanos, but it might be hard to pull off because they spawn on ranged players. Another suggestion for that: make volcanos throwable like the little bombs in Motherlode first boss (off the gcd and not by clicking but via /extraactionbutton and standing near them).
    I said increase overall time too with increasing the death penalty so that deaths matter more than time to reward good play and not feel rushed

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    Quote Originally Posted by taishar68 View Post
    I know it looks very powerful, that is why we need balance to it.
    If a dungeon is only fun if you can avoid packs all the time, then it is designed badly; they didn't make Mythic dungeons thinking "every group will have 3 rogues so you can skip trash every 2 minutes", and they have to design Mythics to be doable by a group of 5 non-rogues who don't have DoS. If the dungeons are designed in a way that minimizes the value of using DoS to avoid packs, it will be balanced by the other abilities. That said, I am sure there are some folks that will demand you have it if it meant skipping just one pack, but that's an extreme example.
    Its not about getting rogues, sometimes skips can be done without stealth it depends on the dungoen and routes. Atal'dazar is a perfect example of skips you can do without rogue

    Plus door of shadows is infinitely better than rogur stealth, as you can avoid mobs that is normally unskippable since you can target it anywhere

    They cant balance door of shadows, its too op. 2 charges makes it alot better and op. You can basically skip every 2 packs like that... i expect a nerf to its range

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    Quote Originally Posted by nessfalco View Post
    They're already incentivized to do that because they don't want to die.

    I don't have a problem with the general idea of kiss/curse, but your particular suggestions strike me as causing just as many problems as they propose to fix. They also don't really address many of the main complaints I've seen about M+, which go far beyond just the nature of the affixes.
    They cause no problems at all, they are optional.
    If you want to risk a bit for more dmg you can. If u dont want just do affixes as you do now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zka View Post
    I totally agree and I wonder why so few people complain about this. M+ tuning feels very neglected, it's like they don't even recognize any of the problems. Unless prot warriors start to outdamage everyone that is.
    Too much focus is being put into covenants atm when Raids/mythic+/PvP/class design is neglected and they are not fine !

  10. #30
    My main thing about M+ is that I just mainly want to see the Awakened Affix as a permanent addition to all dungeons (doesn't have to add to the affix list, just exist). Though I'd like to see them at 7+ just so people are able to experiment and practice a bit more without the pressures that 10 gives.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    they should keep baseline m+ simple. kiss/curse stuff most likely will just lead to more class stacking and blaming people "for not getting their buff" or w/e when something goes wrong.

    i'm all for adding it as some sort of optional extra (minor) reward for extra risk thing though.
    People can always ignore it. It just give options for risk and reward .
    You cant say people will blame etc.
    Since people will also blame you if you dont do thr current affixes in correct manner
    Its just a way to change the way some people approach dungoens
    Introducing new things to play around is not bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    My main thing about M+ is that I just mainly want to see the Awakened Affix as a permanent addition to all dungeons (doesn't have to add to the affix list, just exist). Though I'd like to see them at 7+ just so people are able to experiment and practice a bit more without the pressures that 10 gives.
    Yes. Some seasonal affixed like reaping/awakened are run and should be added into the affix pool and rotation. But instead they are thrown to the trash...
    They should keep what people liked and remove unfun ones...
    But they gonna introduce new seasonal affixes like infested/beguiling that slow down dungoens

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    Yes. Some seasonal affixed like reaping/awakened are run and should be added into the affix pool and rotation. But instead they are thrown to the trash...
    They should keep what people liked and remove unfun ones...
    But they gonna introduce new seasonal affixes like infested/beguiling that slow down dungoens
    Well it's not that I think they should be added to the pool. It's that I think they should be a permanent addition to the dungeon and doesn't count towards the affix list. Right now it is so nice not having to worry about if you have a rogue or invis pots in the dungeon since you have the towers and you can play around with how you want to use them.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    My grevious idea is not about kiss/curse only

    Its about incentivizing dps to not get dmged by some avoidable mechanics to not lose the buff
    Have you posted this on the actual WoW forums? Posting here won’t result in anyone from Blizzard reading it

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    Have you posted this on the actual WoW forums? Posting here won’t result in anyone from Blizzard reading it
    Blizzard reads feedback from a lot of places, including here. Higher chance on the o-forums, sure, but our voices reach Irvine as well.

    I don't even know why I post so little there, I guess I'm just comfortable here.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by SecretAgent View Post
    People can always ignore it. It just give options for risk and reward .
    You cant say people will blame etc.
    Since people will also blame you if you dont do thr current affixes in correct manner
    Its just a way to change the way some people approach dungoens
    Introducing new things to play around is not bad
    ofcourse you can say people will blame. or leave keys. or not group with certain specs. and you obviously can't ignore this mechanic at keys you are barely able to time.

    i'm sure people doing their weekly boxes will happily ignore this, it's the key pushers that will lose their cool with this kinda system.

  16. #36
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    Seeing as how M+ will be far less lucrative in SL (loot wise), I'm cool with anything making them less of a slog. Fortified/Tyrannical is as unimaginative as it gets, same with lame affixes such as Bolstering or Necrotic. Screw those plx.
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  17. #37
    There are changes in beta. Volcanic in particular now knocks you in the air rather than damage. Though you take fall damage.

    You should probably post this in the official forums.

    But, i must disagree that the system is terrible, otherwise it wouldn't see such play.

  18. #38
    I would love if fort/tyrnaical were removed and replaced with a zone specific affix. It would add a lot of flavor. +2 is zone themed, +4 and +7 generic affixes, +10 is seasonal/latest raid themed.

    The “baseline” dmg/hp of trash and bosses should be somewhere between the baseline now and where fort/tyrannical puts it.

    Kiss/curse that encourages derpy dps to stand in more crap absolutely should NOT be added.

  19. #39
    As a high key Player and big fan of M+ i like some of the ideas but the focus should be also on other things.

    It would make M+ eveb more fun if they could balance out the difficulties for each affix week.

    It must not be equal but please a lot closer than it is now.

    For example in Season 4 you have like 3-4 Weeks where u can Push your limits. Thats like 2-3 weeks which are okish but much worse and the rest which are almost unplayable.

    And even if you dont think about pushing and just play for fun you almost find no players in that week playing. In the Push weeks the Group finder is full of keys.


    Just my thoughts

  20. #40
    The only change I would like to see is removing all the shit that I hate and just slows you down and does little else.

    Remove bolstering, sanguine, fortified, bursting and may they burn in hell.

    The only affixes that are actually fun and interesting are stuff like Quaking, Volcanic, Explosive and Tyrannical. Everything else is garbage.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2020-07-28 at 05:53 PM.

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