Thoughts of Elemental in Shadowlands Beta

[themaster24]

I disagree. Elemental has its issues, but it's still one of the few fun casters in the game. With the right talent setup we're about at the peak level of elemental enjoyment (echo, echoing shock, master of the elements, icefury and stormkeeper build).

...

Now that we have prepatch though, it's really hitting me how inane Blizzard's decision to not only re-introduce flame shock's CD in BfA but now reducing the duration as well with Shadowlands is. Maintaining flameshock on 3 targets was already a chore; now we have to pay so much attention to the flame shock CD just to maintain it on 2 targets.

OK - Blizzard didn't want elemental to be a multi-dotter, but now we have to focus much harder to maximize our Flameshock in cleave situations, so ironically dotting is much more stressful and attention-consuming as a shaman than a warlock or shadow priest. For those specs the worst thing that can happen is you miss out on a few dot ticks if you somehow forget to re-apply your dots, but for shaman you not only miss out on ticks, you literally can't effectively target-swap AND lose out on lava surge procs if you forget/are too busy to almost use flame shock on CD. Compared to Legion, I am now much more focused on using Flameshock properly for multi-dotting, so their change has accomplished literally the opposite result they wanted.

If they legit want us not to multi dot, then I would much rather see a significantly increased time on FS, but with the stipulation that it can only be one target at a time. Bring up it's duration to at least 30 seconds, increase it's damage somewhat to compensate for lost multi dot/funneling damage, and let it be. It feels horrendous right now, and it doesn't feel like we've received compensation elsewhere for any of this. Honestly, it feels like after reverting the Maelstrom changes from early testing, they've pretty much done next to nothing with elemental besides nerfs.

[bloodmoth13]

Cd on flame shock makes me not want to play the spec. Enjoyed elemental in legion but thats a deal breaker.
Not a fan of enhance now either, it had problems before but shocks have to be the worst feeling abilities in the game with clunky shared cds and low impact.
My shammy will be sitting this xpac out i think.

[Nyel]

I disagree. Elemental has its issues, but it's still one of the few fun casters in the game. With the right talent setup we're about at the peak level of elemental enjoyment (echo, echoing shock, master of the elements, icefury and stormkeeper build).

...

Now that we have prepatch though, it's really hitting me how inane Blizzard's decision to not only re-introduce flame shock's CD in BfA but now reducing the duration as well with Shadowlands is. Maintaining flameshock on 3 targets was already a chore; now we have to pay so much attention to the flame shock CD just to maintain it on 2 targets.

OK - Blizzard didn't want elemental to be a multi-dotter, but now we have to focus much harder to maximize our Flameshock in cleave situations, so ironically dotting is much more stressful and attention-consuming as a shaman than a warlock or shadow priest. For those specs the worst thing that can happen is you miss out on a few dot ticks if you somehow forget to re-apply your dots, but for shaman you not only miss out on ticks, you literally can't effectively target-swap AND lose out on lava surge procs if you forget/are too busy to almost use flame shock on CD. Compared to Legion, I am now much more focused on using Flameshock properly for multi-dotting, so their change has accomplished literally the opposite result they wanted.

I don't really know. The core rotation is boring and Elemental has some of the worst talents out there. Echoing Shock is a nice addition, but that's about it. Lavaburst is still fairly weak compared to its former glory days, the whole Flame Shock CD / multitarget situation is peak bullsh*ttery, Echo still isn't baseline and several talent rows just lack "oomph". Plus Earthen Rage and its active counterpart are so awful and pointless...

I find Elemental to be really bland and boring. And Earth Shock as a spender / finisher just isn't impressive. Everything about Elemental is - in my opinion - very "meh". Compared to Balance, which might be the most boring caster spec ever in Shadowlands, it's great, but compared to Shadow Priest or several Mage/WL specs it's really underwhelming.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, it feels like after reverting the Maelstrom changes from early testing, they've pretty much done next to nothing with elemental besides nerfs.

It doesn't feel like that, it is exactly what happened (with most specs).

[themaster24]

I don't really know. The core rotation is boring and Elemental has some of the worst talents out there. Echoing Shock is a nice addition, but that's about it. Lavaburst is still fairly weak compared to its former glory days, the whole Flame Shock CD / multitarget situation is peak bullsh*ttery, Echo still isn't baseline and several talent rows just lack "oomph". Plus Earthen Rage and its active counterpart are so awful and pointless...

I find Elemental to be really bland and boring. And Earth Shock as a spender / finisher just isn't impressive. Everything about Elemental is - in my opinion - very "meh". Compared to Balance, which might be the most boring caster spec ever in Shadowlands, it's great, but compared to Shadow Priest or several Mage/WL specs it's really underwhelming.

A lot of it, to me, is it feels like nothing is really impactful. ES doesn't hit hard in a way that makes it feel impactful, nor does it have a visually appealing graphic. FS is way to short and still has this dumb CD. LvB, as you said, feels like a sad meatball compared to the past (while Chaos Bolt is still kicking). And then LB is filler, so it's not supposed to be amazing. Ele just feels poor right now, regardless of the numbers. The only highlight of a rotation is when Echoing shock results in like 4 spells going off. Also pretty sad that this talent, which duplicates a spell, is something we don't want to use on our "Big Spender".

It doesn't feel like that, it is exactly what happened (with most specs).

I haven't played on too many specs since pre-patch dropped, so I can't attest to this too. So far, Ele is the only spec that has felt this way to me out of the ones I've tried.

[Nyel]

I haven't played on too many specs since pre-patch dropped, so I can't attest to this too. So far, Ele is the only spec that has felt this way to me out of the ones I've tried.

Many specs are just exactly the same as in BfA, which is sad. They didn't really work on classes in general, there are only a few outliers like Enhancement and Shadow. Some specs received little tweaks, most got maybe one or two additional skills and that's it.

Elemental is just unexciting to play. Earth Shock is not satisfying at all, shooting Lava Bursts that hit not hard is boring and the talents... I don't want to go over this again. It's just not fun in my opinion. The same applies to Resto, it's the same spec with the same weaknesses as in BfA, which is a shame.

[Muddler]

I find Elemental to be really bland and boring. And Earth Shock as a spender / finisher just isn't impressive.

Elemental Blast would be a way better finisher/spender in terms of aesthetic and lore.

[Nyel]

Elemental Blast would be a way better finisher/spender in terms of aesthetic and lore.

Absolutely and it was planned as a replacement for Earth Shock some months ago when we had the Fulmination mechanic, but they reverted back to Maelstorm.

[shammypie]

Absolutely and it was planned as a replacement for Earth Shock some months ago when we had the Fulmination mechanic, but they reverted back to Maelstorm.

i think it's because master of the elements interacts with it. I was playing around with it and it's pretty powerful even without fulmination. EoE, EB, MOE, SOP is such a fun build to play. really wish they would make high voltage insteresting/useful/competitive

[melodramocracy]

Elemental is just unexciting to play. Earth Shock is not satisfying at all, shooting Lava Bursts that hit not hard is boring and the talents... I don't want to go over this again. It's just not fun in my opinion. The same applies to Resto, it's the same spec with the same weaknesses as in BfA, which is a shame.

Gotta agree with pretty much everything stated here in terms of elemental. Ele is visually pretty great, and the concept really makes me want to play it, but hits like a wet noodle for the most part.

[CID-77]

I agree with most here. After playing melee from launch up to Wrath, in Cata I leveled my Shaman specifically to play Elemental and have mained it when it had it moments. I love the class and still want to main it but it's being held back by several glaring issues (the same holds true for Enhancement unfortunately). Both are close and the fixes are easy.

Just to focus on Ele, I agree it needs...

- No cooldown on Flame Shock, it feels horrible
- Totems off the GCD and more health (this comes mainly from Enh issues but should be class-wide)
- Better animation on our finisher; Earth Shock (it's not rocket science, something like the stone hands from Kromog should work and make sense thematically)

[Nyel]

I agree with most here. After playing melee from launch up to Wrath, in Cata I leveled my Shaman specifically to play Elemental and have mained it when it had it moments. I love the class and still want to main it but it's being held back by several glaring issues (the same holds true for Enhancement unfortunately). Both are close and the fixes are easy.

Just to focus on Ele, I agree it needs...

- No cooldown on Flame Shock, it feels horrible
- Totems off the GCD and more health (this comes mainly from Enh issues but should be class-wide)
- Better animation on our finisher; Earth Shock (it's not rocket science, something like the stone hands from Kromog should work and make sense thematically)

Back in WoD Earth Shock had this nice lightning animation when Fulmination was a thing. It wasn't much, but it looked way more impressive than what we have now.

[rabbimojo]

One thing about Ele in SL that continues to worry me is conduits w.r.t. PVP.

Obviously you need to look at a spec's full picture to make these kinds of judgment calls, but of the 4 offensive conduits we have available, none of them look good for PVP.

E.g., comparing us to Ret Pallies (who notably have bland but straightforward and content-agnostic conduits):

Ele:

• Fire/Storm Elemental lasts 35% longer.
• Lightning Bolt has a 25% chance to generate double Maelstrom. (Does/will this affect overloads?)
• Earth Shock has a 15.0% chance to extend the duration of your Flame Shock on the enemy by 12 sec.
• Casting Earthquake has a 10% chance to instantly cast Chain Lightning at a random enemy in the Earthquake.

I'm not a super-serious ele PVPer but none of these sound like they meaningfully improve burst damage, and the improvements to sustain seem minor. 10 seconds on fire elemental? 15% chance to save 2/3rds of a GCD on flame shock? These are PvE-aligned conduits.

Ret:

• Your Blade of Justice critical hits cause the target to burn for 32.0% of the damage dealt every 2 sec for 6 sec.
• Templar's Verdict has a 30.0% chance to strike again for 60% of its damage.
• Wake of Ashes burns the target for an additional 13.0% damage over 6 sec.
• Judgment grants you Virtuous Command for 6 sec, which causes your Templar's Verdict, Crusader Strike, Blade of Justice, and auto attacks to deal 40.0% additional Holy damage.

I haven't been a ret PVPer in the modern era, but each of those translates trivially to higher damage, some with potential for significant burst and interactions. E.g., does the TV conduit work well with their Final Verdict legendary? (i.e. can the proc proc?) Does the Virtuous Command damage count towards 'X% of damage dealt' calculations?

If SL PVP balance ends up being about offensive conduit and conduit scaling, Ele is in an awful place.

[Hisokax]

A lot of it, to me, is it feels like nothing is really impactful. ES doesn't hit hard in a way that makes it feel impactful, nor does it have a visually appealing graphic. FS is way to short and still has this dumb CD. LvB, as you said, feels like a sad meatball compared to the past (while Chaos Bolt is still kicking). And then LB is filler, so it's not supposed to be amazing. Ele just feels poor right now, regardless of the numbers. The only highlight of a rotation is when Echoing shock results in like 4 spells going off. Also pretty sad that this talent, which duplicates a spell, is something we don't want to use on our "Big Spender".



I haven't played on too many specs since pre-patch dropped, so I can't attest to this too. So far, Ele is the only spec that has felt this way to me out of the ones I've tried.

I agree elemental has issues and is below destro warlock (not really news there lol) but chaosbolt doesn't have a kick it has been continuously nerfed each expansion in PVE (thats why there is the pvp talent to actually nuke). Its one of the main complaints of destro warlocks, chaos bolt is just a rotational ability in PVE now.

I have both warlock and shaman and the damage is pretty close between the two abilities at similar gear levels. Like 500 damage difference. And not taking into account our mastery which makes it hit harder, the lavasurge procs (which have been nerfed today by the morons at blizzard, probably for a new convenant like the azerite in BFA). Does chaos bolt look visually better? I guess so, I personally think elemental shaman is one of the most visually pleasing casters in the game. Warlock barely has anything amazing visually aside from: chaos bolt, inferno, maybe rain of fire (which is a boring 3 shard aoe)? What about mage? Arcane is bland, frost is bland, fire is pretty bland. Priest? Shadow priest is pretty cool but the fantasy is totally different from a shaman nature caster. Moonkin is visually the best but its also the most boring with the eclipse iteration imo. Whats not good about chain lightning proccing like crazy palpatine style, lavaburst being pretty nice looking even if its outdated pixels, improved elementals are really badass , stormkeeper is one of the coolest abilities from legion, ghost wolf has always been cool even if functionally inferior to druid forms?

So really aside from earth shock I don't understand the "not pleasing" complaints. Same for talents, we have some useless talent rows but the grass isn't always greener in other classes/specs. Elemental is one of the rare specs where you have different viable builds: surge of power, icefury, stormkeeper, elemental build.

[Angrie]

One thing about Ele in SL that continues to worry me is conduits w.r.t. PVP.

Obviously you need to look at a spec's full picture to make these kinds of judgment calls, but of the 4 offensive conduits we have available, none of them look good for PVP.

E.g., comparing us to Ret Pallies (who notably have bland but straightforward and content-agnostic conduits):

Ele:

• Fire/Storm Elemental lasts 35% longer.
• Lightning Bolt has a 25% chance to generate double Maelstrom. (Does/will this affect overloads?)
• Earth Shock has a 15.0% chance to extend the duration of your Flame Shock on the enemy by 12 sec.
• Casting Earthquake has a 10% chance to instantly cast Chain Lightning at a random enemy in the Earthquake.

I'm not a super-serious ele PVPer but none of these sound like they meaningfully improve burst damage, and the improvements to sustain seem minor. 10 seconds on fire elemental? 15% chance to save 2/3rds of a GCD on flame shock? These are PvE-aligned conduits.

Ret:

• Your Blade of Justice critical hits cause the target to burn for 32.0% of the damage dealt every 2 sec for 6 sec.
• Templar's Verdict has a 30.0% chance to strike again for 60% of its damage.
• Wake of Ashes burns the target for an additional 13.0% damage over 6 sec.
• Judgment grants you Virtuous Command for 6 sec, which causes your Templar's Verdict, Crusader Strike, Blade of Justice, and auto attacks to deal 40.0% additional Holy damage.

I haven't been a ret PVPer in the modern era, but each of those translates trivially to higher damage, some with potential for significant burst and interactions. E.g., does the TV conduit work well with their Final Verdict legendary? (i.e. can the proc proc?) Does the Virtuous Command damage count towards 'X% of damage dealt' calculations?

If SL PVP balance ends up being about offensive conduit and conduit scaling, Ele is in an awful place.

Ele will be fine. Why? They can literally have 4 schools of magic. They also got Spirit Walker now. On beta, it takes 6-7 Lava Bursts to kill someone (prior to the change to buffing vers via double pvp trinkets). So If you echo your first lava burst, and both proc your mastery you have 4 Lava Bursts. If you press Ascendance (or proc Ascendance off the legendary) and get a mastery proc, you have 6 lava bursts. Those 6 lava bursts give you enough maelstrom to earth shock. All while being able to sling Icefury + Frost Shocks, Stormkeeper (wouldn't have Ascendance) Lightning Bolts that hit like a truck, If you choose Chain Harvest it crits for 30-40% of your targets hp. Lightning Lasso also still doing 700% spell damage (highest in the game). Lightning shield giving 5 maelstrom per attack against you (i believe there's a 1 proc per sec cap on this, so it seems).

I will agree with you that potency conduits in pvp look upsetting. I think it best to stick with the potency that buffs your covenant ability. However you need to know that shamans Finesse and Endurance conduits are some of the best in the game. Crippling Hex (Hex causes the target to do less damage for 8 seconds when it ends) on a 20 second CD. Refreshing Water (More healing surge healing) and Vital Accretion (HP with Earth Ele Out) being the meaningful endurance conduits. Vital Accretion likely being the pick. The extra HP lasts over the entire duration of earth elemental; 1 minute. If you opt for Primal Earth ele, you have a damage reduction and HP boost on 1 button. Worth noting that you can Echo Healing Surge, so if you play Swelling Waves and Refreshing waters, you're basically unkillable if interrupts are spent elsewhere. Hardly bad for pvp.

I could be wrong. I think ele is looking better than ever. If anything, after SL shamans will be upset about losing all the benefits of SL.

[rabbimojo]

Ele will be fine.
...
I think ele is looking better than ever. If anything, after SL shamans will be upset about losing all the benefits of SL.

You're right that we have a lot of strength in defensive and utility conduits, and there is a considerable amount of burst potential in our base kit. The ES->LvB legendary could be pretty strong. I don't mean to doom-and-gloom. By and large, I am excited to play my shaman in PVP in SL.

Mostly I just want to voice places I see Blizz painting themselves (and us) into a corner, mechanically.

LvB burst is always a risky place to bet on, and they've already signaled a desire to reign it in. With Echoing Shock and Asc's free LvB in the mix (not to mention the mini-LvBs from Necrolord eles) LvB+overload+surge burst is going to ruffle feathers. So, I fully expect that LvB is going to be kept on a short leash in PVP (i.e. heavily nerfed).

Blizz will do number tuning like that readily, but mechanical changes like conduit redesign will be more rare. Not having strong potency conduit mechanics to lean on might make us vulnerable to conservative LvB tuning.

Honestly, other than the covenant potency conduits, we might be better off using the resto-oriented two: Swirling Currents or Embrace of Earth. Lean into that 'unkillable'.

[Angrie]

You're right that we have a lot of strength in defensive and utility conduits, and there is a considerable amount of burst potential in our base kit. The ES->LvB legendary could be pretty strong. I don't mean to doom-and-gloom. By and large, I am excited to play my shaman in PVP in SL.

Mostly I just want to voice places I see Blizz painting themselves (and us) into a corner, mechanically.

LvB burst is always a risky place to bet on, and they've already signaled a desire to reign it in. With Echoing Shock and Asc's free LvB in the mix (not to mention the mini-LvBs from Necrolord eles) LvB+overload+surge burst is going to ruffle feathers. So, I fully expect that LvB is going to be kept on a short leash in PVP (i.e. heavily nerfed).

Blizz will do number tuning like that readily, but mechanical changes like conduit redesign will be more rare. Not having strong potency conduit mechanics to lean on might make us vulnerable to conservative LvB tuning.

Honestly, other than the covenant potency conduits, we might be better off using the resto-oriented two: Swirling Currents or Embrace of Earth. Lean into that 'unkillable'.

Yea i don't know if i came off with making you sound doom & gloom-ish, not my intent. I try to look at the positives of what's given.

Like I said, from a potency view, yea, our conduits suck. I think they suck cause our base kit is actually really good. I think Echo'ing is going to make or break a good ele shaman - what to use it on - i know that echo'ing Chain Harvest feels amazing but not always the best move since the cast time is large. Echo Earth Shock seems obvious, but it doesn't proc our mastery, so sometimes echo'ing Lava Bursts are better.

From a tuning perspective, i do not see them nerfing lava burst further, because there is no lava burst conduit. I think most of their "go-forward" tuning will encompass new systems and spells.

I remain hopeful that Ele will be a top contender in pvp.

[CID-77]

I watched the video Tiqqle made where he tested the new 10% Lava Surge proc chance and it basically comes down to about only half of the procs with the change, which for me completely takes the fun out of the playstyle. We're already prone to feel like a turret. With Spiritwalker's Grace there was at least a bit more mobility added, but having only half of the Lava Surge procs ruins it for me personally. If this goes live I'll honestly bench my Shaman until they get some more love.

[Beingbob]

I watched the video Tiqqle made where he tested the new 10% Lava Surge proc chance and it basically comes down to about only half of the procs with the change, which for me completely takes the fun out of the playstyle. We're already prone to feel like a turret. With Spiritwalker's Grace there was at least a bit more mobility added, but having only half of the Lava Surge procs ruins it for me personally. If this goes live I'll honestly bench my Shaman until they get some more love.

Agreed, it's a terrible change and I hope they revert it. The Master of Elements/Echoing Shock/Icefury/Stormkeeper build is so damn fun, but if they reduce our lava bursts that much it will really suffer since we won't be able to get nearly as many buffed abilities out of it. More concerned with the reduced fun and complexity than damage... we're already losing Igneous Potential so going back down to 15% is already a noticeable reduction from live.

[rabbimojo]

Agreed, it's a terrible change and I hope they revert it. The Master of Elements/Echoing Shock/Icefury/Stormkeeper build is so damn fun, but if they reduce our lava bursts that much it will really suffer since we won't be able to get nearly as many buffed abilities out of it. More concerned with the reduced fun and complexity than damage... we're already losing Igneous Potential so going back down to 15% is already a noticeable reduction from live.

I think what we're seeing here is a mix of several dev goals conspiring to bring that proc rate down:

• Try to free up some GCDs for covenant abilities, Echoing Shock/Elem Blast. (Shorter Flame Shock duration, on single-target costs us 1.25s per minute per target)
• Try to reign in burst from the higher LvB damage, + Echoing Shock, + Ascendance, +Windspeaker's Lava Resurgence
• Try to reduce our casting mobility (To offset new 'mobile value' stuff: Echoing Shock, Spiritwalker, LolStaticDischarge?, HST, Windspeaker's Lava Resurgence)
• Try to get that first talent row more balanced (Echo of the Elements is significantly less valuable with a lower proc rate, )
• Create room for extra ES GCDs produced by High Voltage conduit, as we return to having high mastery? (Since ES is lower prio than LvB, aside from capping)
• Shift Ele more to a cooldown-based spec than a resource-based spec (high surge proc rate effectively removes LvB cooldown)

I'm just guessing that those are their goals, but I think they're all pretty obvious, and it is a fairly effective solution to them all.

Going from 20% to 10% proc rate is a stark shift, but I'm not convinced it will ultimately feel bad. Obviously for some players it will, but it's not like Ele is regressing to "immobile turret", nor will we lack for hard-hitting burst lineups.

[Coffeh]

Agreed, it's a terrible change and I hope they revert it. The Master of Elements/Echoing Shock/Icefury/Stormkeeper build is so damn fun,

There's the problem right there. Fun detected. Blizzard will not allow.