Thread: Pay to win?

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Let’s be serious here... the conversion cost is a total ripoff in Hearthstone.
    Nobody will disagree with that point besides maybe hearthstone devs.

    But it's not p2w (besides maybe battlegrounds). Top players have built decks from scratch and hit legend in no time. Hell, a player named Zeddy went something like 37-1 to hit legend with a cheap demon hunter deck on a new account a couple months ago. All you need to "win" decently in hearthstone (whether that's make legend or even hit high legend) is one good deck being played by someone who is skilled enough to know how to play against the other meta decks.

    Again, the only advantage you get from paying is variety. If you play standard you can make a Face Hunter and if you play wild you can make a Secret Mage. Hell, make both if you want to switch up. Both are super cheap and can get you tons of quick wins during your climb.

    If you need more variety of cheap decks there's odd paladin, dh, or rogue in wild or a guardian animals druid or stealth rogue in standard.

    I think those of you saying it's pay to win need to actually define what you consider to be winning in this game.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Greeney View Post
    Again, the only advantage you get from paying is variety.
    Not true. While playing more decks than your primary one, you learn how other decks play, what their weaknesses are, etc. Then you are better prepared against them on your “main” deck. Notice that “Zeddy” and all the other people like him didn’t hit legend when they first started out. Instead, they used their knowledge of other decks and made alt accounts years after they started playing, because they know how other decks play. And how do you know how other decks play? By having played them yourself.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tavin View Post
    Either you farm/play for a few years like some of us and are caught up. Or you buy some packs/farm more to get all cards.

    Why would hearthstone be pay to win? It's not like you need every card for every class to reach legend rank or whatever you refer to as "win".
    It's P2W because, even if you farm a ton of gold and buy a ton of packs at the start of an expansion, the meta will shift within a week or two and those decks you built will no longer be competitively viable.

    If you want to reach legend status, you have to invest full-time job levels of time (to get past the RNG) or you need to invest real life money. That's P2W no matter how you slice it.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    It's P2W because, even if you farm a ton of gold and buy a ton of packs at the start of an expansion, the meta will shift within a week or two and those decks you built will no longer be competitively viable.
    Why I keep bringing up wild. The meta barely ever shifts (except when they want to kill tier s decks).

    If you want to reach legend status, you have to invest full-time job levels of time (to get past the RNG) or you need to invest real life money. That's P2W no matter how you slice it.
    Before April, yes. After April, no.

    If you can't get past the 'rng-fest' now with any tier 1 or 2 deck, no amount of money is going to help you do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Not true. While playing more decks than your primary one, you learn how other decks play, what their weaknesses are, etc. Then you are better prepared against them on your “main” deck. Notice that “Zeddy” and all the other people like him didn’t hit legend when they first started out. Instead, they used their knowledge of other decks and made alt accounts years after they started playing, because they know how other decks play. And how do you know how other decks play? By having played them yourself.
    You can watch streamers play, you learn as you play the other classes enough and know what surprises to expect, you read guides on playing or how to play against those classes, or you make an alt account to craft and focus on those classes to play those decks and learn them if you feel there's one or two you need to focus on. None of that requires payment.
    Last edited by Greeney; Yesterday at 12:44 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Greeney View Post
    Why I keep bringing up wild. The meta barely ever shifts (except when they want to kill tier s decks).
    Wild is more expensive (be it gold or real money). You need cards from every expansion.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    Wild is more expensive (be it gold or real money). You need cards from every expansion.
    I understand why you think that, but you are incorrect. A deck of 30 cards is a deck of 30 cards. Good decks in wild are cheaper (besides reno) and will last longer.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Greeney View Post
    I understand why you think that, but you are incorrect. A deck of 30 cards is a deck of 30 cards. Good decks in wild are cheaper (besides reno) and will last longer.
    Maybe my view is biased. I dusted almost everything before year of the dragon. I would have to re-craft cards like Emperor Thaurissan, etc.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    Maybe my view is biased. I dusted almost everything before year of the dragon. I would have to re-craft cards like Emperor Thaurissan, etc.
    Yeah that's unfortunate if you ever decide to give wild a try, and you may not enjoy wild as much as standard; I'm just arguing that it's just easier from a dust cost perspective in general if you're free to play.
    Last edited by Greeney; Yesterday at 02:26 AM.

  9. #29
    Immortal Kathranis's Avatar
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    Pay to win? Not necessarily.

    Pay to have fun? Yeah, definitely can be the case. If you're missing cards, you'll face limitations in deckbuilding that can prevent you from playing decks that are both fun and viable.

    Personally I've not had much fun in HS in... quite a while. Well, OTK DH was really fun while it lasted, but I just generally dislike the current meta decks and I don't really want to spend the resources needed to experiment with all the decks to find one I enjoy.

    I've considered giving Wild a shot, and I've also toyed around with Legends of Runeterra a fair bit, and that one at least seems far more F2P friendly than HS.
    Last edited by Kathranis; Yesterday at 02:39 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Greeney View Post
    Why I keep bringing up wild. The meta barely ever shifts (except when they want to kill tier s decks).



    Before April, yes. After April, no.

    If you can't get past the 'rng-fest' now with any tier 1 or 2 deck, no amount of money is going to help you do it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You can watch streamers play, you learn as you play the other classes enough and know what surprises to expect, you read guides on playing or how to play against those classes, or you make an alt account to craft and focus on those classes to play those decks and learn them if you feel there's one or two you need to focus on. None of that requires payment.
    You know the game is pay to win when you suggest rigging the system.

  11. #31
    ..why are ya'll still arguing whether Hearthstone is pay to win...

    cause its A DIGITIAL TRADING CARD GAME similar to MTG, Yugioh, Vs System etc...you pay money to get more cards that you can use to win more games...its not like its a big secret

    the different is the AMOUNT of pay to win...even then how much you really give a shit about winning

    the game can be EASILY played with the smallest investment. Are you going to make Legend? likely not but if your looking for a game you can just play on a lunch break or whatever this works. Even then what does getting Legend get you? A card back...maybe the chance to be in a tournament or something where you MIGHT get 5-7 figures if you happen to be the guy who wins? Maybe your a streamer who's making money playing this damned game anyway so you get your investment back in spades? Even then this is also a DIGITAL card game...where if Blizz ever decides to pull the plug...poof everything's gone!

    Then there's that bullshit where someone was all "Oh the conversion cost of cards is abyssmal in comparison"....Lets make a comparison shall we

    Worst MTG Rare and Best MTG rare vs Best Hearthstone Legendary vs Worst Hearthstone Legendary

    ..for this I'll use One With Nothing as one of the worst..and Black Lotus as the best

    With Hearthstone...Millhouse Manastorm vs Ragnaros

    the MTG ones are out of print one is a staple in Vintage one is ..basically garbage where Rag is one of the best legendaries and Millhouse being the worst...

    the difference is cost and availability. That lotus price is just one but usually gets high up there but I can sell my entire MTG collection and probably not even come close to buying one black lotus..even at the cheapest unlimited version

    where as in Hearthstone both Rag and Millhouse costs the same and I can dust Millhouse and one other legendary to get Rag

    BUT Black Lotus will always be around..if WoTC collapses today the people who own Black Lotus still have that value where if Blizz shuts down all those cards go wherever things go when you empty the recycle bin

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    You know the game is pay to win when you suggest rigging the system.
    How is anything there considered rigging the system?

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