New PC for WoW with 2 monitors

[Temp name]

Well you might think it seems unrealistic but clearly you dont know how big of a jump a generation is, and this generation is going to be the largest jump ever in the fidelity of games. If you dont understand that I get it, you have to be deep in the gaming scene/game dev to know exactly how much, but im telling you 16gb is going to become minimum for a modern title on PC in a few years.

Xbox had 64mb RAM, Xbox 360 had 512mb of ram, Xbox One had 8GB, Xbox One X 12GB, Xbox Series X is going to have 16gb, in 2 years the suped up Xbox Series X will logically have between 24-32gb. What do you find surprising about the claim that games for PC will be looking at 32gb as norm?

Considering most PC games, as has been said a lot, continue to run well with 8gb of RAM.. I'll continue to doubt you. Also, the PS4 and PS4 pro both had the same amount of RAM, and still offered a large jump in fidelity. RAM isn't the end-all be-all of performance.

And this is going to be the largest jump in fidelity? Pretty sure that's going from 2d to 3d gameplay. 3d games are just orders of magnitude harder to run than 2d ones. Maybe this generation jump would match it if every game went to ray-tracing, but.. Yeah, nah, they aren't. I doubt may games will honestly.

And even if they did (to tie it together with what I said in the first paragraph), it would be the GPU performance and VRAM that's limiting you, not the amount of system RAM you have.

[Azerate]

Most people ain’t doing that all at once and you still aren’t even capping 16GB. Cool story bro.

The OP specifically mentioned a 2 monitor setup, which heavily implies he will want to multi-task, so dunno about "most people", but OP might need some ram

[Temp name]

The OP specifically mentioned a 2 monitor setup, which heavily implies he will want to multi-task, so dunno about "most people", but OP might need some ram

I mean, he might, so let's see what a ridiculous amount of usage would be.. Let's say.. 2 games, streaming, ton of chrome, doing work..
Oh, this post, made by you shows it just fine!

Cool story bro.

This is my memory usage at the moment. It almost hits 16gb, which would be the max if I only had 16gb.

WoW afking at Will of N'zoth spawn
Playing another game on the other screen
Chrome with wow-related pages + guides for the other game
Twitch streaming at 1080p
Excel sheet for my work
Discord
Couple other irrelevant things like windows system tools, background processes, anti malware etc.

It's not hard to imagine a situation where I want to quickly jump on my sofa to chill while watching some random tv show/anime/movie, without shutting everything down, because it takes ages. That easily pushes me above 16. Or even just going to a stream at 4k not 1080 as stated above.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5FmiOxI.png[IMG]

You didn't hit 16gb of usage, even with that ridiculous use case. 16gb is FINE.

[Kagthul]

Appeal to authority failed. I quite frankly dont give a shit whether you think it failed. Im a game dev by trade, so IDGAF if you dont want to listen to me, or accuse me of not being able to do math.

Discussion devolves into insult = automatic failure to win discussion. Good job dude, real mature/advanced discussion skills you have.

I might not be able to do math according to you, but you cant do logic apparently.

Point out the flaw in the logic.

And pointing out that you committed a basic logical fallacy (An Appeal to Authority) isn't an insult. Its a statement of fact.

I can tell you first hand,

This right here? Its an Appeal to Authority.

that PC games next gen will push past 16gb of memory. Games will be downgraded in a year or two's time to meet next gen console requirements. If you dont possess the logic to understand what that also means, is that PC will SURPASS console hardware, then argument over.

Except companies dont develop for just PCs, not if they want to make money. AAA has to conform to consoles. Thats why Assassin's Creed and most Ubisoft games rune like complete trash on PC despite the PCs having MUCH better hardware. They also dont develop for PCs that less than 5% of the market own.

They develop for the market. The market is still (BARELY, at that!) quad cores w/o HT/SMT and GPUs in the range of the GTX 1060-1660 SUPER.

So.. yeah.

Yeah. Your uh "argument" isn't looking so hot at this point.

Nothing made for next gen is going to require more than 16GB of RAM. It Literally CANT =/ UTTERLY FALSE. We're talking about PC here and in 1-2 years time there are going to be PC games that 16gb is the MINIMUM for ideal settings.

lolno.

Bit of advice keyboard warrior. Think about what you're going to say before you say it and dont try to insult someone to win an argument or you look like a flat out idiot.

I didn't insult you. I stated two things:

You committed a basic logical fallacy (Appeal to Authority)

You cant add correctly (saying that "Next Gen" - a term that applies SOLELY to the console world, mind, and is never used in the PC space apart from VERY RARELY the GPU scene, and happens every 18-24 months, not six to eight years - implies inherently that we're talking about CONSOLES and their PC ports). Its pretty simple. Saying that games made for "Next Gen" Consoles wil require more than 16GB of RAM is a literal impossibility. The consoles only HAVE 16GB of RAM.... AND ITS SHARED. Series X reserves 3GB for the "system RAM" - leaving 13GB for the GPU. (Which is fine since its GDDR6 and extremely fast, so dumping info from RAM and loading new stuff into RAM is orders of magnitude faster). No word on PS5 yet, but its likely to also reserve 3-5GB for the CPU.

Neither of those things is an insult. Its just pointing out facts.

If you think my appeal to authority is a fallacy then it just proves how little logic you have. Imagine trying to claim a doctor dosent know what they're talking about when they post on a medical forum and accusing them of appealing to authority. Grow up, I know what im talking about better than you, clearly, as someone who spends every single day working on a next gen title.

If you believe this, you have no idea what the Appeal to Authority Fallacy even is.

A Doctor has credentials. I can check them. He can give me his license number and i can check him against a state database and confirm that he is, indeed, a Doctor.

You're just saying "loltrustmeimnotlying".

You HAVE no credibility.

None.

Zero.

Zilch.

Nadda.

- - - Updated - - -

The OP specifically mentioned a 2 monitor setup, which heavily implies he will want to multi-task, so dunno about "most people", but OP might need some ram

Two monitor multi tasking for the average person is:

Game on one screen

Discord/Web Browsing on the other.

Nothing else.

Its just to prevent having to alt-tab.

- - - Updated - - -

Well he is, maybe you should re-read it.

Except i wasn't. Trust me, as a person who catches a 2-4 day Ban every 3-6 months for telling idiots how stupid they are in precise detail, you will have NO QUESTION if i start insulting you. Itll be VERY obvious.

Im allowed retaliate to someone being a prick on a forum. Not sure what you find funny about me retaliating but okay.

No, you're allowed to refute my arguments with facts. So lets see em.

What you did was commit ANOTHER logical fallacy - Ad Hominem.

Well you might think it seems unrealistic but clearly you dont know how big of a jump a generation is, and this generation is going to be the largest jump ever in the fidelity of games. If you dont understand that I get it, you have to be deep in the gaming scene/game dev to know exactly how much, but im telling you 16gb is going to become minimum for a modern title on PC in a few years.

Xbox had 64mb RAM, Xbox 360 had 512mb of ram, Xbox One had 8GB, Xbox One X 12GB, Xbox Series X is going to have 16gb, in 2 years the suped up Xbox Series X will logically have between 24-32gb. What do you find surprising about the claim that games for PC will be looking at 32gb as norm?

Because the Xbox One and One X didn't have that much RAM. They had that much SHARED MEMORY. BOne had 2.5GB reserved for the system. Thats WHY they increased it to 12GB in the BOne X - so that the GPU could have access to as much VRAM as a BASIC MIDRANGE PC GPU.

PC's DONT work on a unified memory structure. According to how you calculate crap, my PC has 27GB of RAM (16GB + 11GB of GPU memory). And that isn't how any of this works.

I mean, if you've got some facts you'd like to share, post em up.

Until then, ill go with Gamer's Nexus, who, unlike you, have proven credentials, exhaustive scientific testing methods, and high level access to Hardware and Software companies and enough clout to put one major hardware company on blast and not even worry about it (Watch the recent MSI video, where Steve basically says in typically Steve-is-a-nice-guy language "go fuck yourself you corrupt assholes").

GN's exhaustive studies have shown that 8GB of RAM is still fine even for AAA gaming if you're ONLY gaming (+ a few tabs and a VOIP program that isn't Skype). Going to 16GB in most games adds single-digit frames. Going to 32 adds Literally Nothing and in some cases LOSES performance because of latency issues with 4-stick kits.

[Thunderball]

The OP specifically mentioned a 2 monitor setup, which heavily implies he will want to multi-task, so dunno about "most people", but OP might need some ram

OP mentioned that it's for WoW, and no, browser tabs is not multitasking.

[Moredo]

Sorry to interrupt your memory holy war her but as the OP I'd like to ask another question:
Can I slot GeForce RTX 2060 or 2060 Super into a Gigabyte B365M D3H motherboard?

[Temp name]

Sorry to interrupt your memory holy war her but as the OP I'd like to ask another question:
Can I slot GeForce RTX 2060 or 2060 Super into a Gigabyte B365M D3H motherboard?

Yes.
Technical explanation because I need more characters, and I'm bored:
Any GPU made in the last ~18 years will have a PCIe x16 connector. Any motherboard made in the same time frame will have at least 1 PCIe x16 slot. Yes more modern GPUs and Motherboards will have newer generations of PCIe, but there is no practical difference between PCIe 2.0 x16 and PCIe 4.0 x16 for GPU performance in the current generation, and PCIe 2.0 came out in 2007, so any motherboard made since then should give you the same GPU performance as any other.
Exceptions given to miner boards, but they're weird and almost impossible to find in regular stores

[Moredo]

Yes.
Technical explanation because I need more characters, and I'm bored:
Any GPU made in the last ~18 years will have a PCIe x16 connector. Any motherboard made in the same time frame will have at least 1 PCIe x16 slot. Yes more modern GPUs and Motherboards will have newer generations of PCIe, but there is no practical difference between PCIe 2.0 x16 and PCIe 4.0 x16 for GPU performance in the current generation, and PCIe 2.0 came out in 2007, so any motherboard made since then should give you the same GPU performance as any other.
Exceptions given to miner boards, but they're weird and almost impossible to find in regular stores

The reason I asked is because when you try pcpartpicker for motherboards acceptable for RTX 2060, it lists B365M DS3H but never B365M D3H. So I got lost with which GPU I can actually use instead of the current one
This is my current setup: https://il.pcpartpicker.com/list/RgtKzN

[Thunderball]

Have fun sitting on MMOC for the next 10 years with that attitude, nothing better to do than attack others

He's been doing that for 10 years already.

I never said RAM was the be all and end all of performance though. I simply stated that in the next few years on PC you will see games that will eat past 16gb of RAM.

No, they wont. Just drop it. Professional stuff - yea you can justify it.

I was talking about modern era, like I stated, Xbox original - Xbox Series X, the leaps between each of these generations. UE5, ray tracing in the near future, all of these things are going to take games to a next level. I would disagree ray tracing wont be in games, they probably wont be in for a few years since its early days, but both Xbox and PS5 in their keynotes stated ray tracing was one of the primary focuses of the new consoles and will be for years.

Yea, but ray tracing has absolutely nothing to do with RAM.

If I was building a pc today and wanted it to be future proof for the next gen titles coming up soon and I had the money I would go 32gb. 16gb will be fine for most people most cases but Im simply stating that games are going to see a sudden increase in requirements again and thus id recommend he goes 32gb if he can.

Why limit your PC performance? Yes, 32GB of RAM will perform worse than 16GB of RAM, given the same chips, or at least clock worse. Why buy the RAM that you dont need when you can actually buy more RAM whenever you get to the point that you need more? Not to mention that DDR5 is right around the corner, and it's totally possible that you will never get to the point where you need 32GB of DDR4.

I dont understand why everyone is being so angry about it, because I also made absolutely crystal clear in my response that he will be fine with 16gb if he does x,y,z and that if he dosent have the cash get 16 it will be fine.

Because it's a waste of money. You're not going to be using that RAM at all for the forceeable future, it could negatively impact the performance of the RAM you're actually using, and you can buy more RAM whenever you need it, likely for cheaper.

[Thunderball]

Yes. They will. Im literally part of a team working on a game in Unreal Engine that is 'next gen' in terms of requirements, I think id know. Flexing my call to authority here apparently. Tarkov uses 13gb ffs and the textures and meshes in that game are nowhere near next gen, nor is it even open world.

Got bad news for you. You cant release the game with those requirements if you wanna sell it. The same way you cant release the game with 2080 Ti minimum requirements.

Why you guys dont think games on PC at the top end of the next gen will push 16gb of memory is beyond me tbh.

I'd appreciate a lot if someone would help me with my new build - the PC will be in use for playing WoW (mythic raiding) solely, maybe some occasional FFXIV.

If you could read you would notice that OP is not playing any of that. If he decides that he needs his PC to be able to run those games he can easily upgrade.

Gears of war 1 - Xbox 360 title, minimum RAM = 1gb
Gears of war 4 - Xbox one title, minimum RAM = 8gb

I could literally reel of dozens of games that are 3-4 years old that are pushing 11gb usage, even 12, if you guys truly think a console with 2x the memory of previous gen console wont cause games to take a similar increase in performance, especially on the PC port counterparts, then I cant argue this anymore.

Which is irrelevant. OP is not playing any of those titles.

[Moredo]

....Which is irrelevant. OP is not playing any of those titles.

Well, yeah, exactly. I tried to ask some questions relevant to me but they are long gone in these walls of text :-/
My last question was in post #35

[Hoofey]

My guess is that games will still play fine on 16gb, but 32gb will be beneficial.

Take Star Citizen for example, which is the so-called next-gen title on PC. Even though its an unstable mess atm, it already benefits from having 32gb over 16gb. And that games graphical fidelity has been limited with shitty pop-ins, LODs, low render distance and whatnot so current pc specs wont catch fire when trying to run it. (it still runs like shit though, still not using vulkan and not optimized)

But with open world games like SC that utilizes asset streaming way more than normal games, I can imagine the ram requirements going up quite a bit, even with UE5's new features like Nanite and whatnot.

At least thats my non-educated take on it.

[Thunderball]

Bad news for you buddy, I never said that, so not sure how you can use that in your argument. You're literally disputing a fact. Tarkov uses 13gb and its 3 years old and nothing like next gen. The upper end of next gen will require 20 series cards. Thats just a fact.

That means that anyone running Windows 10 literally cant run a game on 16GB of RAM without a swapfile. Which is total bullshit.

Ill teach you something. You like all these other keyboard warriors who sit on forums and think its okay to use insults as a means of arguing should know that the second you devolve your discussion to an insult. You are wrong, and you lose. GROW UP.

Ill quote something for you because you didnt read clearly did you.

WoW (mythic raiding) solely, maybe some occasional FFXIV.

You're just arguing to argue.

I literally recommend 16gb for those games and 32 if he can afford it for future proofing or if he uses applications like I do, if that isnt good advice, then I dont know what else I could tell him.

Dont tell him to buy RAM that he doesnt need right now. Again, you can buy more RAM whenever you need, and cheaper. Not to mention the performance hits you could take when putting in 32GB RAM that you dont use.

Yet again putting words in my mouth to support your argument. I never stated OP plays these games but then you know thats not what im insinuating. You know exactly why I stated that but ill say it again anyway.

The leap in requirements from generation to generation is large.

Xbox one is 8gb. Xbox One X is 12gb. Xbox series X is 16gb. Xbox series X 'X' will likely be 24gb or perhaps even more.

Games like Tarkov are already pushing 13gb. Black ops 2 = 12gb. Battlefront 2 = 11gb. There are many titles over 5 years old already ~10.5gb.

In another 3 years we will be well into the next generation, and developers will be given more freedom with tech specs, and we will see another increase. 16gb will no longer be 'a lot' thats just a fact. Ill repeat myself again. If you dont think that the jump in tech requirements by mid next gen will be similar, then I have literally nothing else to say to you, you're just in denial and arguing for the sake of it. 16gb is not the future, get over it.

Are you serious? I'm not arguing your statement, but in this topic it's irrelevant. OP doesnt play those games, but if/when he would need to he has an option of buying more RAM right away. There is literally no benefit to buying more RAM than what you need for your tasks.

[Temp name]

The reason I asked is because when you try pcpartpicker for motherboards acceptable for RTX 2060, it lists B365M DS3H but never B365M D3H. So I got lost with which GPU I can actually use instead of the current one
This is my current setup: https://il.pcpartpicker.com/list/RgtKzN

As I said, any motherboard will work with any GPU you buy nowadays.
Maybe except miner boards, but most of them will probably work too.

Well, yeah, exactly. I tried to ask some questions relevant to me but they are long gone in these walls of text :-/
My last question was in post #35

Yeah sorry, been a bit busy so can't poke my head in as often as I'd like..

[Moredo]

Yeah sorry, been a bit busy so can't poke my head in as often as I'd like..

No worries.
In the end I ordered an Asus TUF Gaming VG27AQ 27.0" monitor and a GeForce GTX 1660 Super graphic card instead of gtx1060, leaving all the rest in my current setup.

[Gaidax]

A bit of a preamble:
For the past 4 years I tried to be "smart" and upgrade my PC part by part like some people do but found out that I despise this kind of experience and want to go back to what I was doing previously: order a custom build PC from the parts I want, use it for 3 years no upgrades or repairs involved and then move to the next one.

I'd appreciate a lot if someone would help me with my new build - the PC will be in use for playing WoW (mythic raiding) solely, maybe some occasional FFXIV.

I'm buying a new 27'' monitor with it - an Asus TUF Gaming VG27AQ with a hope to get 60fps in raids on 1440p@144Hz.
I will use my 8 years old 24'' Asus ISP monitor as a second one - it's 1080p@60Hz.
I think that 16Gb memory would be enough and I want only one 500Gb SSD drive (that's the one I have now and I don't need more space).
I don't need any bells and whistles like RGB stuff and such so if there are parts that are cheaper without RGB - very good.

Any help is highly appreciated
TL;DR: PC for WoW, works 3 years, no upgrades during this time.

Yes, this is all fine really.

I also play WoW, browsing and occasional other game here and there with 2 different frequency monitors and somehow WoW runs just fine. Obviously I use the better monitor with gsync and shit for gaming and 2nd non-gsync monitor for stuff like discord and such while I game. Works just fine.

16GB RAM is fine and will keep being fine for your 3 years lifetime intended for the system, ignore the people flying off the handle here. For what you intend to do - 16GB RAM is totally peachy. All in all RAM is the least of troubles for new system because you can simply get motherboard with 4 RAM slots and populate 2 only, keeping 2 in reserve just in super unlikely case you might need (read: want) more. I got 32GB RAM and it's a deadweight 95% of the time.

I think you already have most of what you need figured out anyway.


I'm from IL too and I usually do my PC builds in KSP once every several years, they have really nice site (that looks dated tbh, but allows you to do what pcpartpicker does) - then you can just order that and they will assemble it well, so far had no issues with them. The price is OK (for Israel) and the service is fine too, they build it well.

>>>> What I do personally suggest - invest a tiny bit more in decent case with extra fans and exhausts and closed loop water cooling for CPU. With our summer heat it's almost mandatory IMO.

[iperson]

All aviation simulators, including MSFS are professional applications and always had hardware requirements to match. Not only for the memory. Also if you tell a serious simmer that he's playing MSFS he's gonna break your skull. Those are not games for a very large fraction of the users.

Most serious "simmers" are going to struggle breaking into a package of poptarts, I think I'll take my chances...

[Drench]

This hasn't been true for like 5 years now, or more. I wish people would just stop regurgitating that.

Especially if your fav game is something like WoW that you probably keep open alongside tens of browser windows with wowhead, youtube, twitch etc. and sometimes multiple other applications. "You don't need more than 8GB of ram for gaming" is maybe true if you're the type of casual single player gamer who launches absolutely nothing on their PC than Steam and then their game of choice. That's not how you play MMOs, and that's not how you multitask on a PC. He also specifically mentioned he wants a setup with 2 monitors, which clearly suggests that websites and potentially streaming will be going on at the same time as wow.

So yes, get 16GB of ram at the minimum, but probably 24GB or 32GB would be preferable for future proofing.

When looking at how much ram you want, you don't look at the requirements of a game. You think what the actual memory requirement will be for everything running simultaneously on your pc, including the game.

PS. As a real life example, I have 24GB in my rig that I built like 3 years ago now. During a downtime (web browser, discord, steam, wow, potentially some other game afk) it needs about 12-14 gb on average. If I actually open more stuff and watch stuff, it jumps to 16-17.

You need to check for some virus stuff running in the background.


I use my pc for game development.

I'll have

Wow
6-8 chrome tabs with few videos
Amazon music
Blender with two scenes.
Discord
Unity with a large project open with lighting on
Photoshop
Aseprite
Steam
Github
Dropbox
Hangouts
Drawing tablet software.



This is on dual monitors one at 144
The other is a 60hz 1080p drawing tablet

That's just the main stuff running.


I've never come close to needing over 16gb.


I got a ryzen 3600 and a 1080 butter smooth all the time.



Not gonna be using 24-32gb of ram any time soon. Dumbest suggestion I've ever seen on here.


You don't buy 32 gb because 3 games with memory leaks and poor programing causes it to use more then 12.

[Kagthul]

Most serious "simmers" are going to struggle breaking into a package of poptarts, I think I'll take my chances...

Not to even mention that the entire "serious simmers" segment is microscopic. Maybe 1 out of every few thousand gamers. Tiny.

[Aeriedk]

You need to check for some virus stuff running in the background.


I use my pc for game development.

I'll have

Wow
6-8 chrome tabs with few videos
Amazon music
Blender with two scenes.
Discord
Unity with a large project open with lighting on
Photoshop
Aseprite
Steam
Github
Dropbox
Hangouts
Drawing tablet software.



This is on dual monitors one at 144
The other is a 60hz 1080p drawing tablet

That's just the main stuff running.


I've never come close to needing over 16gb.


I got a ryzen 3600 and a 1080 butter smooth all the time.



Not gonna be using 24-32gb of ram any time soon. Dumbest suggestion I've ever seen on here.


You don't buy 32 gb because 3 games with memory leaks and poor programing causes it to use more then 12.

Have to agree. I use a lot of the same applications and I even run a minecraft server off my machine with 6g dedicated to it and I don't think I have ever seen it over 13g.

I also have 32g in my system and have never deemed it worth it.