So is the Alliance leadership mostly just vengeful people now?

[Venziir]

So they did not change his smug attitude, but simply let you call him out on his bs? How is this in any way comparable to Tyrande's behaviour being changed completely?

Both were a result of whiny players.

[Varodoc]

Both were a result of whiny players.

One completely removed something, the other didn't.

[Quaade]

First it was Varian for the death of Bolvar.

Then it was Genn for the death of Liam

Then it was Jaina for the destruction of Theramore

Now its Tyrande for the destruction of Teldrassil.

With this track record, Im surprised the Alliance has not resorted to weapons of mass destruction and scorched earth tactics like the Horde has.

Because they, in the end, try to go for those that are responsible instead of everyone. You know, like good leaders.

[bowlink]

Both were a result of whiny players.

Yea but with very different end results. Further more giving alliance an extra text box for some extra flavor to call vol'jin bluff doesn't even reach the bare mininum they could have done to make up for the shiny turd that is the 5.3 robot cat questline

[Varodoc]

Yea but with very different end results. Further more giving alliance an extra text box for some extra flavor to call vol'jin bluff doesn't even reach the bare mininum they could have done to make up for the shiny turd that is the 5.3 robot cat questline

Lmao I remember that. The Horde's questline consisted of an epic battle to defend Sen'jin village and subsequent assault on Razor Hill to liberate it from Garrosh's troops. The Alliance's questline consisted of spying the barricades outside of Orgrimmar with a small robotic cat.

Just lol. MoP and Metzen were so Horde-biased.

[Feanoro]

Lmao I remember that. The Horde's questline consisted of an epic battle to defend Sen'jin village and subsequent assault on Razor Hill to liberate it from Garrosh's troops. The Alliance's questline consisted of spying the barricades outside of Orgrimmar with a small robotic cat.

Just lol. MoP and Metzen were so Horde-biased.

Metzen must be so relieved to be retired, now he doesn't have to pretend to give a damn about Alliance. See the now famous "normal user" appearance at Blizzcon: "I have two questions. HORDE, WHERE YOU AT? *crowd roars* And when does the Horde get back its TRUE warchief?!"

[Leodric]

Metzen must be so relieved to be retired, now he doesn't have to pretend to give a damn about Alliance. See the now famous "normal user" appearance at Blizzcon: "I have two questions. HORDE, WHERE YOU AT? *crowd roars* And when does the Horde get back its TRUE warchief?!"

to be fair, the whole old blizz dev team were horde fanbois

[Mehrunes]

That's irrelevant. Anything and everything can be part of the plan. You cannot trust any of that person's previous actions after they are outed as a traitor. It's the same as anything else. That person was revealed to have been your enemy at the time, and you should never believe anything an enemy says that they want you to hear.

Being unable to trust the previous actions of someone that has been outed as a traitor is completely separate topic from whether the leaders of Azeroth got bad intel because of Sylvanas. They didn't get any of their intel from Sylvanas, so this non-existent intel couldn't be bad or good. It simply wasn't anything on the grounds of not being a thing in the first place. You're grasping at mere pictures of straws at this point.

And yet we learned that Sylvanas and her new Sugar Daddy orchestrated (with a bit of help from Mue’Zhala) Vol’Jin’s demise and his death was a breaking point to the Horde. If instead he had his full Dark Hunter mojo and kept fighting, inspiring the Horde to go on then Alliance would have had enough time to evacuate properly via gunship and without Varian dying. So she caused the battle to go completely FUBAR when she conspired with Jailer to kill Vol’jin.

1. We learned no such thing.
2. The Horde's position was completely shattered by the spaceships summoned by Vizuul the Twisted regardless of Vol'jin's fall, because the Horde (rather obviously) did not retreat just because one person dropped unconscious.
3. The Alliance did have the time to evacuate via gunship and they already boarded it even with the way things went. The reason Varian died is because Gul'dan summoned a Fel Reaver at the last second to be spiteful. The slower retreat of the Alliance that you champion would actually create a risk of Alliance forces still being on the ground at the time Gul'dan used his Fel Reaver trump card. Which would lead to piles of charred Alliance corpses as it hit the ground.

[Unholyground]

I am just waiting so I can join the 3rd faction and be done with this fighting. Mark my words at some point in the future a major expansion feature will be the ability to join the 3rd faction and leave your old one behind. If not bare minimum cross faction PvE content which makes more sense than not at this point since our goals are always 100% the same.

[Shaetha]

Being unable to trust the previous actions of someone that has been outed as a traitor is completely separate topic from whether the leaders of Azeroth got bad intel because of Sylvanas. They didn't get any of their intel from Sylvanas, so this non-existent intel couldn't be bad or good. It simply wasn't anything on the grounds of not being a thing in the first place. You're grasping at mere pictures of straws at this point.




1. We learned no such thing.
2. The Horde's position was completely shattered by the spaceships summoned by Vizuul the Twisted regardless of Vol'jin's fall, because the Horde (rather obviously) did not retreat just because one person dropped unconscious.
3. The Alliance did have the time to evacuate via gunship and they already boarded it even with the way things went. The reason Varian died is because Gul'dan summoned a Fel Reaver at the last second to be spiteful. The slower retreat of the Alliance that you champion would actually create a risk of Alliance forces still being on the ground at the time Gul'dan used his Fel Reaver trump card. Which would lead to piles of charred Alliance corpses as it hit the ground.

Okay, I'll concede the intelligence. She was still a traitor at Broken Shore. No amount of mental gymnastics you can do will make her not be a traitor. Like I said, we don't need additional proof. We have irrefutable proof she was a traitor at Broken Shore by her own admission, and when someone tells you something like that you should believe them.

Stop defending traitors. You can defend protagonists and antagonists, but those who are too cowardly to stand by their convictions do not deserve defense.

[Melusine]

It's revenge if there's emotion involved. Justice is a different matter altogether.

That's one way of putting what I just said. I don't like to involve "emotion" in my points because of the subjective nature of it, so I just stick to the actions.

That said, I don't think 12 members of a jury are going to be unscathed when they happen upon a case involving a serial rapist who would murder his victims when he was finished with them and was criminally creative with how he disposed of the bodies. Emotions will occur even in the justice system.

[Ardenaso]

I always have trouble accepting Genn Greymane's quest for vengeance. Everyone always hypes it up as "Sylvanas murdered his son". Like, what? His Son was an idiot and stepped in-front of an arrow meant for Genn. Sylvanas didn't murder his kid.

it wasn't just his son who died...

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also, I can't wait for Blizzard to put "the Troll Bane" in Danath Trollbane. The Alliance needs more Daelin-tier characters

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I'd also consider Vereesa to be vengeful considering she still wanted to kills a certain Blood Elf in Legion; though she would probably get kicked off from Dalaran by Khadgar if she tries to attack the Horde

[Ersula]

And yet we learned that Sylvanas and her new Sugar Daddy orchestrated (with a bit of help from Mue’Zhala) Vol’Jin’s demise and his death was a breaking point to the Horde. If instead he had his full Dark Hunter mojo and kept fighting, inspiring the Horde to go on then Alliance would have had enough time to evacuate properly via gunship and without Varian dying. So she caused the battle to go completely FUBAR when she conspired with Jailer to kill Vol’jin.

That's not at all what happened.
*Mue'zhala is not working for the Jailer, he just wanted a large death count because his afterlife is the only one unaffected by the maw
*Mue'zhala didn't cause Vol'jin's death, he merely took advantage of that opportunity to sew chaos by suggesting Sylvanas. Not really even necessary, since Sylvanas would have been next in line anyway, in terms of seniority. It was a coincidence.
*Literally nothing would have stopped Varian's death. Even with evacuating, the Horde were stopping the Alliance from being surrounded, and even with them retreating, the Alliance were not surrounded. The Legion teleported in a giant force of uberdemons & felreavers. I guess if you're saying the Horde should have sacrificed their entire forces so the Alliance would have a chance of getting away, maybe, but that's a ridiculous demand.
*Again, Mue'zhala & the Jailer have no sway over the Legion, to say they conspired to kill Vol'jin is wild, rather than recognizing a plot of opportunity.

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We have irrefutable proof she was a traitor at Broken Shore by her own admission

Assuming the developers planned that far ahead, retreating when all the other Horde faction leaders were seriously wounded is not being a "traitor" it's basic warfare. Even if she maliciously wanted them to die, her actions were completely sensible on a tactical level. The fact that the Alliance jump to conclusions solely because they couldn't see what they were doing is very contrived way to create conflict based on a misconception.

[Super Dickmann]

The whole argument about the Broken Shore is beyond retarded because even if we ignore BTS, as the writers do in all parts except the harmful ones, Vol'jin is the one to tell Sylvanas to bail - 'don't let the Horde die this day'. But let's pretend that Mueh'zala told him to or even disregard this entirely and say Sylvanas did it - she has no obligation to go out of her way to save her allies on the other side of the ridge when the Horde were already moments from getting wiped out, considering the call of the Val'kyr is signal enough that they're bailing and that the Alliance was still only stopped from retreating by Gul'dan dropping a fel reaver on them.

[Mehrunes]

Okay, I'll concede the intelligence. She was still a traitor at Broken Shore. No amount of mental gymnastics you can do will make her not be a traitor. Like I said, we don't need additional proof. We have irrefutable proof she was a traitor at Broken Shore by her own admission, and when someone tells you something like that you should believe them.

Stop defending traitors. You can defend protagonists and antagonists, but those who are too cowardly to stand by their convictions do not deserve defense.

Except not only is this admission of yours as made up as your intel, but it still has nothing to do with what was being discussed.

The whole argument about the Broken Shore is beyond retarded because even if we ignore BTS, as the writers do in all parts except the harmful ones, Vol'jin is the one to tell Sylvanas to bail - 'don't let the Horde die this day'. But let's pretend that Mueh'zala told him to or even disregard this entirely and say Sylvanas did it - she has no obligation to go out of her way to save her allies on the other side of the ridge when the Horde were already moments from getting wiped out, considering the call of the Val'kyr is signal enough that they're bailing and that the Alliance was still only stopped from retreating by Gul'dan dropping a fel reaver on them.

Obviously Sylvanas worked with Gul'dan as well, because all enemies of Azeroth are apparently an uniform group that works together. Literally argued in this thread already.