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  1. #81
    The class had flavour back in mop, plenty of it. But then they buggered that. Fun to play too both in pve and pvp.

  2. #82
    the REAL reason and most underated is that Fist Weapons dont show on your character when they are sheathed. Not trolling, but is really effects people subconsciously. The class is extremely fun to play, but not being able to see our staple weapon is beyond cruel of blizzard and still can't believe it hasnt been addressed.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunternation View Post
    Not trolling, but is really effects people subconsciously
    Never had any issue with this. There are probably 25 reasons more important to people as to why they won't play Monk. They offer up shit scaling is my reason.

    Edit: Not to mention this is what they have done (only this so far) in the entire development cycle of ShadowLands...
    Windwalker
    Level 58 – Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger – Rank 2
    Xuen strikes your enemies with Empowered Tiger Lightning every 8 seconds, dealing 10% of damage you have dealt to those targets in the last 8 seconds.
    Last edited by Fastlane_hellscream; 2020-08-28 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunternation View Post
    the REAL reason and most underated is that Fist Weapons dont show on your character when they are sheathed. Not trolling, but is really effects people subconsciously. The class is extremely fun to play, but not being able to see our staple weapon is beyond cruel of blizzard and still can't believe it hasnt been addressed.
    This is a selling point and one of the bigger reasons that I'm enjoying the class. My absolute favorite time on my lock was in WoD when there was a staff that was invisible while sheathed. I cannot tell you how much I hate having weapons needlessly glued onto my character.

    I actually am kinda bummed that 2h is coming back to WW cause I'm potentially gonna have a glued on staff again...

    The real reason for WW is because they're consistently under tuned. The spec is fun sure, but people won't play bad. People will play unfun and overpowered, but they won't play fun and underpowered.

    Add to that the competition of how many melee specs there are and how difficult it is to get a spot as a melee spec, and its a recipe for low representation.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  5. #85
    They killed Monk in MOP when they changed the Damage Brewmaster did and how Stagger worked for me. Just as they Killed DK's by making Blood Tank only.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    I very rarely see Monks in game and was wondering why? I understand WW/MW are in bad spots for raiding but I feel like at least BM is decent and all are useful in Mythic+. On the other hand I see Shaman everywhere and all 3 of their specs are in the dumpster right now for everything and Ele/Enh have been memes since Vanilla.
    DH is just a far better version of WW, it literally does everything WW does but better and has extra stuff on top of it. Better single, better AoE, better cleave, better mobility, better interrupt (it's ranged), better CC, has a dispel, has a raid CD, has a immunity, and DH has a very simple and does better single/AoE damage (that is almost isn't so CD heavy). Also WW scales terribly with stats, IMO any spec (that isn't a tank) where vers is in the top 2 needs to be looked (mastery can sometimes be last depending on the situation aka disc mastery).

    MW has the worst raid healing CD in the game and doesn't offer much in the healer meta. It has insanely good spot healing but that's it. Rising Mists has sparked some life into the spec but blizzard doesn't know where to take it and instead are just leaving MW in a weird state.

    Overall though monk doesn't really offer anything special to stand out, there is nothing "awesome" about monks, and instead Blizzard is doubling down on these Celestial pets instead of fixing monk itself. I wish monk's had cool animations like DH for all the Martial Arts stuff they could do but instead lets add more pets ...
    Last edited by Raone; 2020-08-28 at 08:01 PM.

  7. #87
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    Monks have a few things going against them, and I say this as someone who's loved the class since its debut in MoP.

    First up, Windwalker has a big problem with being chronically undertuned. Just about anything a Windwalker brings to the table, a Rogue will bring to the table and do better at it. Windwalker also feels less intuitive to play than it did at release--in 5.0, WW's rotation flowed smoothly, whereas, like with many classes throughout BFA, the rotation flowed as well as an engine in dire need of an oil change.

    Second, Brewmaster has more or less been the redheaded stepchild of tanks, sharing the gig with bear druids. Stagger and Guard worked splendidly for PvE out the gate, but it was a problem in PvP, and Brewmaster has been on a pretty consistent revolving door between playing well and, again, bringing very little to the table another tank spec doesn't do better. Luckily, they seem like they're in a good place in Shadowlands, from what I've seen thus far.

    Third, Mistweaver, like the other two specs, has suffered from "Who am I?" syndrome from WoD onwards. Blizzard had a very clear vision for the class and its three specs in MoP, but from WoD onward that vision has become blurry and muddled. One of the worst things they did to Mistweaver's identity was get rid of Fistweaving and stop supporting it as a playstyle beyond some minor concessions that clearly aren't meant to make it a supported playstyle, like how Dark Apotheosis didn't make melee Demonology Tank a supported playstyle. Its other problems, again, are shared by its sister specs. There's not a whole lot Mistweaver brings to the table that other healers don't.

    Fourth, monks start at level 1. While this might not be a huge issue, being the only class added after launch that isn't a hero class means by definition fewer people were going to give it a go. This problem will probably all but evaporate with prepatch's level squish, so I'd keep an eye out for potential upticks in monk representation going forward, though how big and long-lasting relies entirely on how well monks do with SL's updates.
    Last edited by Thage; 2020-08-28 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Clarity
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by d00dles View Post
    I would love to play Monk during next expansion but not with the Pandaria visual effects. (I don't even hate Pandaria.)

    Let me glyph all the extra visual fluff out. I just want to play a martial artist who solely relies on his physical strength and nothing more. The wannabe naruto clone technique ability can stay, that's just whatever who cares.
    This.
    I like the idea of playing a monk, but i pick my race in the race select screen, not the class select screen. Monk really needs to be decoupled from pandaren, a lot of other races had monks before pandaren came on the scene. The monk class was a great opportunity to reflect other races martial arts, but they failed in that.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    This.
    I like the idea of playing a monk, but i pick my race in the race select screen, not the class select screen. Monk really needs to be decoupled from pandaren, a lot of other races had monks before pandaren came on the scene. The monk class was a great opportunity to reflect other races martial arts, but they failed in that.
    No thanks.

    What distinguishes monks in WoW from other games is that they're not just martial artists.

    They're mystical warriors who use chi, brews, and mistweaving on top of their martial arts.

    Martial only skills look like total ass, just look at how dumb and stiff WDP and RSK look.

    Meanwhile mistweavers and brewmasters have the best animations of the class.

    Fist weapons are also terrible because monk animations use palm and side palm strikes, tilting the fist weapons and making it look super unnatural and fake, or disappearing when you use tiger palm.

    Meanwhile blackout strike from brewmaster actually integrates the weapon well into their abilities.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2020-08-31 at 06:43 PM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    No thanks.

    What distinguishes monks in WoW from other games is that they're not just martial artists.

    They're mystical warriors who use chi, brews, and mistweaving on top of their martial arts.

    Martial only skills look like total ass, just look at how dumb and stiff WDP and RSK look.

    Meanwhile mistweavers and brewmasters have the best animations of the class.

    Fist weapons are also terrible because monk animations use palm and side palm strikes, tilting the fist weapons and making it look super unnatural and fake, or disappearing when you use tiger palm.

    Meanwhile blackout strike from brewmaster actually integrates the weapon well into their abilities.
    but none of that is the culture of any frikkin race other than pandas. If you want to do flavour then you could have more 'flavour' by making all priests preists of the moon, all warriors orcish blademasters (OOH THE ANIMATIONS!) and all mages blood mages (The verdant spheres are so cool!).

    The asian themeing of the class was my biggest turn off and the biggest thing holding me back from picking my monk back up.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    but none of that is the culture of any frikkin race other than pandas. If you want to do flavour then you could have more 'flavour' by making all priests preists of the moon, all warriors orcish blademasters (OOH THE ANIMATIONS!) and all mages blood mages (The verdant spheres are so cool!).

    The asian themeing of the class was my biggest turn off and the biggest thing holding me back from picking my monk back up.
    The point is that the Pandaren's cultural norms are married to the way of the monk, and teaching the way of the monk means adopting Pandaren culture.

    It's like presenting to the Shaolin temple and telling them "No, thanks, no Buddhism for me." Then they won't teach you kung-fu for which they're famed for. The spiritual and philosophical aspects are part of the whole monk package.

    What you want is a pugilist class, and that's just not what the WoW monk is.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    This is a selling point and one of the bigger reasons that I'm enjoying the class. My absolute favorite time on my lock was in WoD when there was a staff that was invisible while sheathed. I cannot tell you how much I hate having weapons needlessly glued onto my character.

    I actually am kinda bummed that 2h is coming back to WW cause I'm potentially gonna have a glued on staff again...

    The real reason for WW is because they're consistently under tuned. The spec is fun sure, but people won't play bad. People will play unfun and overpowered, but they won't play fun and underpowered.

    Add to that the competition of how many melee specs there are and how difficult it is to get a spot as a melee spec, and its a recipe for low representation.
    Can't all monks hide their weapons? or only fist weapons?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    I very rarely see Monks in game and was wondering why? I understand WW/MW are in bad spots for raiding but I feel like at least BM is decent and all are useful in Mythic+. On the other hand I see Shaman everywhere and all 3 of their specs are in the dumpster right now for everything and Ele/Enh have been memes since Vanilla.
    because Monk sucks ?

    No offense here, to all the monk players. but lets face it:

    WW sucks and sucked most of the time in wows history (since MoP ofc). undertuned as hell. or god in aoe, while greatest garbage in universe on ST. extremely black/white. horrible extremes. besides a rare few good moments in wow history.

    MW sucks and often has in past or often had mechanical wise not the greatest class mechanics on earth. if blizzard redesigned this, it lacked that. and so on. imo class mechanic wise this spec was never done. like an 8 year old beta, still having problems. had some identity in past, lost it half way into WoD/Legion imo.

    Tank was a very well rounded, high skilled and really fun spec, with lots of great possibilities and fine granularity. in past. before they horrible changed and pruned it.

    if WoD and above not happened, i assume you would see more monks.

    But for all the ppl loving their monk: stick to it and dont listen to nah sayers like me.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2020-09-01 at 04:16 AM.

  14. #94
    Coming from the perspective of someone who has bounced off the class multiple times and really WANTS to like it:

    -Unclear niche, with Rogue and especially Demon Hunter doing most of the same but better
    -Inconsistent and poorly defined class fantasy; the little that exists is heavily tied to pandas
    -Three consecutive expansions worth of oversimplification and mechanical neglect
    -Two out of three specs borderline non-functional in Shadowlands so far
    -Unusually low number of transmog options
    Last edited by Delano; 2020-09-01 at 04:30 AM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Monks have a few things going against them, and I say this as someone who's loved the class since its debut in MoP.

    First up, Windwalker has a big problem with being chronically undertuned. Just about anything a Windwalker brings to the table, a Rogue will bring to the table and do better at it. Windwalker also feels less intuitive to play than it did at release--in 5.0, WW's rotation flowed smoothly, whereas, like with many classes throughout BFA, the rotation flowed as well as an engine in dire need of an oil change.

    Second, Brewmaster has more or less been the redheaded stepchild of tanks, sharing the gig with bear druids. Stagger and Guard worked splendidly for PvE out the gate, but it was a problem in PvP, and Brewmaster has been on a pretty consistent revolving door between playing well and, again, bringing very little to the table another tank spec doesn't do better. Luckily, they seem like they're in a good place in Shadowlands, from what I've seen thus far.

    Third, Mistweaver, like the other two specs, has suffered from "Who am I?" syndrome from WoD onwards. Blizzard had a very clear vision for the class and its three specs in MoP, but from WoD onward that vision has become blurry and muddled. One of the worst things they did to Mistweaver's identity was get rid of Fistweaving and stop supporting it as a playstyle beyond some minor concessions that clearly aren't meant to make it a supported playstyle, like how Dark Apotheosis didn't make melee Demonology Tank a supported playstyle. Its other problems, again, are shared by its sister specs. There's not a whole lot Mistweaver brings to the table that other healers don't.

    Fourth, monks start at level 1. While this might not be a huge issue, being the only class added after launch that isn't a hero class means by definition fewer people were going to give it a go. This problem will probably all but evaporate with prepatch's level squish, so I'd keep an eye out for potential upticks in monk representation going forward, though how big and long-lasting relies entirely on how well monks do with SL's updates.
    well said. sign a lot of it (not all, but a lot).

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucrece View Post
    The point is that the Pandaren's cultural norms are married to the way of the monk, and teaching the way of the monk means adopting Pandaren culture.

    It's like presenting to the Shaolin temple and telling them "No, thanks, no Buddhism for me." Then they won't teach you kung-fu for which they're famed for. The spiritual and philosophical aspects are part of the whole monk package.

    What you want is a pugilist class, and that's just not what the WoW monk is.
    I dont care about panda spirituality, i just want to punch shit, i dont give a fuck about magic mists, i want to beat people with my fists.
    It shouldnt be married to a race, other classes have monks, i want to play a scarlet monk, or a troll Capoeira master, not fists of furry tea drinking alcoholic.

    The reason its unpopular is that the entire class (which are generally very loose designs) was pigeonholed into a VERY specific and narrow niche.
    Warriors can range from berserkers, to knights, to barbarians to samurai, rogues can be ninjas, swashbucklers, pirates or assassins, monks though are pandaren monks and nothing more, there is no room for personal interpretation which kills roleplay.

  17. #97
    Because it is a filler class.

  18. #98
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    Monk suffered so much from legion rework. it was not great before but it had some identity. It is a new class that was starting at level 1 so that's always going to be hard to overcome but it had stuff going for it.

    Brew as always been in an okay state just because of stagger but its a tank spec and that's never going to carry a class. tanks spots are to limited for that.

    WW had SEF spread cleave niche on top of having a cool CD mechanic in tiger eye brew that was less on a "CD" and more flexible. It was not top dps but it has some mechanical strength. in legion WW became a dps class without anything special, with melee spot already very competitive there is zero reason to bring WW.

    MW had a very different gameplay loop than most other healer, it was more based on rotation than play around mana. it was a very different healer that was able to do dmg into healing before it was cool. MW became a half druid healer with zero nich and all the dps in healing mechanics that were deemed to strong were given to disc and holy in the next 2 expac.

    both WW and MW lost any kind of strength and that was the nail in the coffin for the last 2 expac. it is also a class with so many bugs and that makes it feels even worst.

    Let's hope blizz brings back some of the strength of the class. I don't think it will ever be a top class but they can help the bleeding to stop. WW went from around 3-5% of pars in mythic to like around 1% right now...

  19. #99
    My issues with monk are purely gameplay rather than theme.

    Them being pandaren-focused makes perfect sense, it's their lore origins and no other race comes close to their dedication to them - as of the update even the SM monks are inspired by them.

    The gameplay has always felt very complex for below average reward, though. I don't mind complex specs, but only if it's rewarded. Tuning adjustments would do much for the class.

  20. #100
    Because people wanna wield big ass swords and magic instead of punching mans generally in these kind of games.

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