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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    A dps who pulls more than the tank or heal can handle simply because dps wants big numbers? That's toxic. A tank who stomps with his feet and let's the group wipe because they want to teach someone a lesson, is just as toxic.

    The solution is very simple. You finish the run, you put the dps on ignore and never play with them ever again. You don't throw a hissy fit like some preschooler. You don't try to school someone like a pretentious dick. You just finish your run and move on to play with other people. Keep your own ego in check.
    Well, I do it differently, if a DPS decides he wants to Pull, he pulls stuff, he dies, I pick the stuff up, and the Idiot DPS who thinks he´s the Boss has a Higher Repair Bill.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Well, I do it differently, if a DPS decides he wants to Pull, he pulls stuff, he dies, I pick the stuff up, and the Idiot DPS who thinks he´s the Boss has a Higher Repair Bill.
    Heal aggro exists. That dps will quickly lose aggro, will survive and instead it's the healer who dies.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    One should always strife for improvement.
    Not if it ends up worse. It’s not worth the risk. Blizzards strife for improvement often ends up as a disaster.

  4. #604
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very rare pepe View Post
    everyone now has a number next to their name in game
    This already exists; it's item level.

    Why would Blizzard build a tool identical to raider.io? It would not solve the problem. It would be resource inefficient.

    LFD tool already exists and solves the problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    What Firebert (and most people opposing r.io) refuses to acknowledge is that not every player is able to do the level of M+ they apply to, even if their character is ready for it.
    What Twdft (and others like him) refuse to acknowledge is that every player is able to do the level of M+ that is appropriate for their gear, and does not want to relinquish the excessive control they have over the progression of other players.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/T/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/0/1 | Mafia: 1/6/0/7 | TPR: 0/4/1/5
    SK: 0/1/0/1 | VT: 1/3/2/5 | Cult: 1/0/0/1

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    What Twdft (and others like him) refuse to acknowledge is that every player is able to do the level of M+ that is appropriate for their gear, and does not want to relinquish the excessive control they have over the progression of other players.
    You say that all players with decent gear should be able to beat challenging content, but the shit show that was LFD Cataclysm release dungeons shows how wrong you are. Itemlevel doesn't make a player good, especially not since Blizzard is throwing high ilvl items at players week after week for doing low difficulty stuff (sometimes even braindead difficulty, like warfronts).
    WoW is not an idle game where you just improve your stats and automatically progress further on. You as a player need to be good enough to make use of that gear. Many people are not good enough. And the solution to that problem is not to have them get carried by better players. It's to have them play on lower key levels until they learn.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    This already exists; it's item level.

    Why would Blizzard build a tool identical to raider.io? It would not solve the problem. It would be resource inefficient.

    LFD tool already exists and solves the problem.
    Item level is not enough, raider IO shows some more information that in most cases helps like minded players play with more like minded players. I've had keys ruined by high item level players, I am yet to have one ruined by a high raider.io player on an alt with lower item level. Raider.io and the information it gives really does help out players who care about performance a little more to play with similar minded players.

    I'll give you a scenario, I invite your 470 geared hunter to our +18 run, I look on your armory and I would do that if raider.io didn't exist, see that you have done very little mythic+ or not close enough to the level of our current key and I would kick you. Do you feel better or worse for being invited and kicked, or not invited?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    I've found exactly the same. If you're in anything past say a +20 and someone dies everyone knows what killed them, including the person who died. Nobody really calls them out on it (other than to laugh at them) and it usually isn't very toxic at all.

    Like I think everyone that consistently does high keys understands that sometimes you just get one shot by something, and sometimes you wipe on a boss and the key is dead. It's not usually that big of a deal.
    Agreed, once I got past doing 15's just for my weekly chest the mythic+ community felt less toxic, there are always outliers though and some people are who they are going to be. But in general, mythic+ becomes less stressful when interacting with the community.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    What Twdft (and others like him) refuse to acknowledge is that every player is able to do the level of M+ that is appropriate for their gear, and does not want to relinquish the excessive control they have over the progression of other players.
    Make your own group and you have full control over your own progression.
    Your group, your rules, where you can invite people based on ilvl and enjoy the content with like-minded people.
    My group, my rules, where I enjoy content with like-minded people.

    Why do you want to force people that consider you a scrub and a baddie to play with you? What joy does that give you?

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by LanToaster View Post
    Well, I do it differently, if a DPS decides he wants to Pull, he pulls stuff, he dies, I pick the stuff up, and the Idiot DPS who thinks he´s the Boss has a Higher Repair Bill.
    You're the most toxic kind of tank I know. The ones who have to underline how "irreplaceable" you are because you chose to pursue tanking in this game.

    Good players will keep their little man-syndrome in check when dps pulls and pick up the trash that was pulled while the mediocre tanks at best with huge egos usually focus on typing some useless witty shit in the partychat and slow down the whole run because someone didn't respect their role as a tank and are too proud to just shut the fuck up and press taunt.
    Infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-09-02 at 05:42 AM.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Why do you want to force people that consider you a scrub and a baddie to play with you?
    Because then he would have no one to play with. Jokes aside, I just think some people don't like the fact that there are players now able to really play with only like minded players and it forces the bad-average player to now pick up the slack.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubefist View Post
    You're the most toxic kind of tank I know. The ones who have to underline how "irreplaceable" you are because you chose to pursue tanking in this game.

    Good players will keep their little man-syndrome in check when dps pulls and pick up the trash that was pulled while the mediocre tanks at best with huge egos usually focus on typing some useless witty shit in the partychat and slow down the whole run because someone didn't respect their role as a tank and are too proud to just shut the fuck up and press taunt.
    If anyone else pulls in a pug i save him once. If he is doing this again i let him die then taunt. You DON'T pull unless it was talked about bevorehand. WHen i play with my guildies i don't mind them pulling because we know who has what ability ready and we have done it multiple times so we are trained.

    If i wait with pulling as a tank there is in 99% of cases a reason for it.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Lubefist View Post
    Good players will keep their little man-syndrome in check when dps pulls and pick up the trash that was pulled while the mediocre tanks at best with huge egos usually focus on typing some useless witty shit in the partychat and slow down the whole run because someone didn't respect their role as a tank and are too proud to just shut the fuck up and press taunt.
    Have had this happen to me, it did make tanking a dungeon more stressful, but I tend to just suck it up until the run is over and then I decide to not play with that dps anymore.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    Make your own group and you have full control over your own progression.
    Your group, your rules, where you can invite people based on ilvl and enjoy the content with like-minded people.
    My group, my rules, where I enjoy content with like-minded people.

    Why do you want to force people that consider you a scrub and a baddie to play with you? What joy does that give you?
    I told him the exact same thing twice: you can make your own group and remove all the problems of queueing and getting rejected.

    He did not answer.
    He won't answer you either.

    This does not seem to be an option for him at all, even tho it exists and many many many people do dungeons this way for the exact same reason.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by stresskiller View Post
    if only raider io would show the behaviour of players .. like how often did he / she quit in middle of m+ or how often he / she use toxic language ... just to name some extra options
    If someone quits in an M+, it may not be related to their "behavior". The group, as a whole, may just agree it isn't worth finishing the key. This could be for a number of reasons.

    If you don't like toxic language, filter it. There is an option for mature language filtering. I'm sure there are addons you can download that allow you to add additional filtering.

    Raider.IO isn't meant to be Mom and Dad safeguarding players from language and "behavior". It is meant to show how experienced a player is at running dungeons.

    1999/Early 2000
    When I first started playing EverQuest (I was maybe 12, most likely 13) I was constantly rejected from groups and such because people took a chance on inviting me but I was always going AFK, never really cared about understanding what my role was in the group, always had poor gear because I was too lazy to farm gear, and often died getting to the group. All around I was a pain the ass for the 5 other people (groups are comprised of 6 players) because I wasted their time due to my inexperience and unwillingness to put in the time to properly learn how to play.

    I grew up, kept playing the game, and I realized it wasn't them being "ignorant" or "controlling" or "blocking me from progression". It was me. I was a problem and I had a pretty bad reputation on Quellious (the server I played on) for being a dumbass kid who would most likely waste the group's time and take up a spot that could easily be filled by someone far better. Believe me, with or without Raider.IO, people do remember just based on name alone.

    I ended up rerolling on another server with a different name and actually taking it semi-seriously because I wanted a Dagger of Mrylokar during Velious. Yes, it took a long time. Yes, I had to build up a reputation from nothing years into my new server's lifespan. It took far longer to gain trust than anything else.

    Flash forward to 2020
    I play WoW maybe 5 hours a week...sometimes I get really crazy and push it to 10-12 hours. My time is valuable. I am an adult with a great family and a very demanding job.

    When I play the game, I do not have time to waste with people who ultimately remind me of my younger self. If someone cannot show me, with real data, that they have the experience I find relevant for the dungeon level I am running they are rejected immediately.

    I do not care, not should I care, about their personal life or their reasons for why they cannot complete running 2-3 dungeons a week. All I care about is when I step away from my job and my family to progress my character, the time isn't wasted on someone who does not put in the same effort in understanding, practicing, and mastering something as simple as a fucking dungeon.

    I've read a handful of pages and the reality is this: Don't like Raider.IO? Don't use it. Can't get invites to groups? Make your own. This has, and always will be, how MMOs work. You are not owed anything. You are not promised progression. You cannot expect others to carry you.

    The problem is not in players who use Raider.IO. The problem is players, since the beginning of MMOs, have time and time again wasted people's time. Raider.IO at the very least gives groups the ability to filter players who are experienced and can make it through a run over players who are not willing to put in a minimal amount of work.
    Last edited by skorgg; 2020-09-01 at 01:04 PM.

  14. #614
    Why isn't there an addon telling peoples parses from WCL instead? Would be a much better indication on someones skill than how many keys they nolifed through.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Mmid View Post
    Why isn't there an addon telling peoples parses from WCL instead? Would be a much better indication on someones skill than how many keys they nolifed through.
    How many people do you think log their M+ runs?
    Hint: the vast majority doesn't.

    Raider.io updates automatically for everyone.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    every player is able to do the level of M+ that is appropriate for their gear
    Do you play the game? This is clearly untrue. People select characters who are overgeared and still often fail to complete dungeons in time. It's nonsense to claim that every player can do the level of M+ that their gear implies they should, since gear can be obtained from so many different sources. If I only raid, I'm going to have pretty good gear, but I'll suck at M+ because I don't know how the affixes work, what the routes are, and when I should be using cooldowns.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mmid View Post
    Why isn't there an addon telling peoples parses from WCL instead? Would be a much better indication on someones skill than how many keys they nolifed through.
    Because logs are much more complex than just parses. Raid fights can be relatively easily compared at a glance using parses, though that ignores some nuance, as they should be broadly the same. M+ isn't like that. It's far more complex. There are more mechanics which affect how you play, and less space to deal with them. There's variance in how you pull depending on affixes and group composition. You'd need far more data than just a parse to get a decent measure of how someone played in a dungeon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    Mexico is already part of the USA so is Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Shandalar View Post
    Shadow deserves nothing, the same as Fire Mages.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    How many people do you think log their M+ runs?
    Hint: the vast majority doesn't.
    I meant raid parses.

    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Because logs are much more complex than just parses. Raid fights can be relatively easily compared at a glance using parses, though that ignores some nuance, as they should be broadly the same. M+ isn't like that. It's far more complex. There are more mechanics which affect how you play, and less space to deal with them. There's variance in how you pull depending on affixes and group composition. You'd need far more data than just a parse to get a decent measure of how someone played in a dungeon.
    Sure it will never tell you everything you need to know. But if the addon for instance told you average best parses for all bosses killed in the current patch raid tier, that would, to me at least, be much more informative of the skill level of a player compared to a r.io score as it is today. Even if it is for raid content instead of M+.

    Edit: For example if two players queued up for my weekly max item level key, one having 95% avg parses in the raid, and one having done all keys in time at +10, the choice would be very easy.

  18. #618
    Raider IO is the best thing that happened if you ask me.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Mmid View Post
    I meant raid parses.



    Sure it will never tell you everything you need to know. But if the addon for instance told you average best parses for all bosses killed in the current patch raid tier, that would, to me at least, be much more informative of the skill level of a player compared to a r.io score as it is today. Even if it is for raid content instead of M+.

    Edit: For example if two players queued up for my weekly max item level key, one having 95% avg parses in the raid, and one having done all keys in time at +10, the choice would be very easy.
    Then the crying would be around mythic raiding being an "elitist activity that is, by nature, blocking their character's chances of doing dungeons" or some other bullshit response about mythic raiding requiring 30 hours a week (which is so far from the truth).

    Regardless of the tool being used, it all comes down to them being bad at the game and having such poor communication and social skills that they cannot find a guild or group to play with. They just won't see it that way because they cannot be honest with themselves about their own skill level.
    Last edited by skorgg; 2020-09-01 at 01:29 PM.

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Mmid View Post
    Why isn't there an addon telling peoples parses from WCL instead? Would be a much better indication on someones skill than how many keys they nolifed through.
    Because skill doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have any experience with the specific dungeons.

    Raider.io tells you:

    - how many keys have a player completed
    - at what level were these keys completed
    - in which dungeons were these keys completed

    That’s all you need to know.

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