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  1. #881
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    Damn you sound bitter.

    How is higher numbers not high end? It’s not necessarily an interesting way to increase the difficulty but how is it not “high end” to be at the highest point?

    You make no sense.
    Again, it's a speedrun against pretend numbers and no rewards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    First time I saw MDI, I thought that it was some kind of new group finder for Mythic Dungeons.

    Once I found out that it was another Blizzard crowbarring content into esports it just became another thing to ignore.
    I assume this is what just about everyone in the community thinks of MDI, including myself.

  2. #882
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Again, it's a speedrun against pretend numbers and no rewards.
    And Usain Bolt is just speedrunning from one place to the other. I don’t get why everyone is so amazed by him. Most people run around...

  3. #883
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    What makes you think that you, not the community, sets the definition for what is high end?

    Your statements here just make you seem like someone who is salty they arent part of said community.

    MDI isnt huge compared to the biggest esports out there, but its huge compared to the average esport. Your bully like anecdotes dont serve as an argument against MDI being big, it just makes you seem like a bad person :/
    What average eSport? MDI compares to shit all. There's more viewership for RTWF and some balding nerd who loves to show off his mounts.

    The community certainly doesn't recognize M+ as high end as they just don't do it. Everyone's busy doing 15+ once a week and logging off for the rest. There's no motives to go do anything above 15+.

    Saying M+ is high end is like saying removing some pieces of armour to lower your ilvl then running normal Uldir is high end. You're just fighting with bigger numbers, that's literally all it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    And Usain Bolt is just speedrunning from one place to the other. I don’t get why everyone is so amazed by him. Most people run around...
    Lmao. Because physically training to break world record running speeds = popping stealth pots and CDs to avoid an entire dungeon and then brute forcing boss mechanics in a video game, right?

    Listen. M+ and the IO side of the community is nothing but overglorified LFR trash. Shit gets dumped on by proper players in guilds daily. Keep on denying those pugs in hopes of finding a really high IO score popping up lmao
    Last edited by Stardrift; 2020-09-10 at 04:17 PM.

  4. #884
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    There's no such thing as high end M+. Just larger numbers with more loot drops per completion and that's it. No new rewards, no higher ilvls, nothing. Same old mechanics, same old dungeons designed to keep you in longer.
    .
    The same old mechanics don't play the same at higher key levels, how you approach some, or rather how seriously you need to take them changes as it gets higher. Even still, this is a poor argument, there clearly is high end M+. To try to assert that it doesn't exist, then to offer such a poor argument in favour of this assertion isn't a good look.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


    Remember, legally no one sane takes Tucker Carlson seriously.

  5. #885
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    What average eSport? MDI compares to shit all. There's more viewership for RTWF and some balding nerd who loves to show off his mounts.

    The community certainly doesn't recognize M+ as high end as they just don't do it. Everyone's busy doing 15+ once a week and logging off for the rest. There's no motives to go do anything above 15+.

    Saying M+ is high end is like saying removing some pieces of armour to lower your ilvl then running normal Uldir is high end. You're just fighting with bigger numbers, that's literally all it is.

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    Lmao. Because physically training to break world record running speeds = popping stealth pots and CDs to avoid an entire dungeon and then brute forcing boss mechanics in a video game, right?

    Listen. M+ and the IO side of the community is nothing but overglorified LFR trash. Shit gets dumped on by proper players in guilds daily. Keep on denying those pugs in hopes of finding a really high IO score popping up lmao
    If it’s so easy then why don’t you do it yourself? It’s just bigger numbers right? You could easily prove your point by doing it yourself.

  6. #886
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    Glad to know you're unaware of how much gold, silver and bronze medalists earn alongside their medals.

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    Yea it does? Even if it had rewards, it still wouldn't be high end. Again, it is quite literally just a speed run.

    It's comparable to speedrunning an RPG game with your armour and weapons off to artificially inflate damage received and reduce damage done. It's fake difficulty. It's still the same game, just higher numbers.

    People criticize the hardmodes in other games for just being number inflators, rather than adding in actual difficulty mechanics.

    How is M+ high end? All you've done was go "NUH UH YOU RONK" and insult me lol

    Is that really what's considered high end by those who have spent 50% of their /played in a battle pet dungeon?

    Also as a side note.. Not even Blizz watches MDI. C'mon.
    The argument about being Bigger Number is not high end makes me think you dont play this game at all.

    Most Mythic Raiding is a number issue, do we bring another healer? When do we use cooldowns to deal with this mechanic now that it deals X amount of damage? How do we survive Y skill now?

    Same thing applies to Mythic+, the numbers are bigger, means that a cast that you could let it go can probabbly one shot you now.

    TLDR: Bigger numbers = less mistakes you can do.

  7. #887
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    Guys, can we please stop the tangent about what constitutes high end / olympic athlete tangent. It's not relevant and is derailing discussion.

    Thanks.
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  8. #888
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    What average eSport? MDI compares to shit all. There's more viewership for RTWF and some balding nerd who loves to show off his mounts.

    The community certainly doesn't recognize M+ as high end as they just don't do it. Everyone's busy doing 15+ once a week and logging off for the rest. There's no motives to go do anything above 15+.

    Saying M+ is high end is like saying removing some pieces of armour to lower your ilvl then running normal Uldir is high end. You're just fighting with bigger numbers, that's literally all it is.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Lmao. Because physically training to break world record running speeds = popping stealth pots and CDs to avoid an entire dungeon and then brute forcing boss mechanics in a video game, right?

    Listen. M+ and the IO side of the community is nothing but overglorified LFR trash. Shit gets dumped on by proper players in guilds daily. Keep on denying those pugs in hopes of finding a really high IO score popping up lmao
    There isnt much point in arguing against your "facts" because they are all based on the same premise - "dude, trust me". You have nothing to back what you say up with, at the same time you are degrading people left and right for no discernable reason at all.

    Like whats the point in degrading Asmon? He has literally nothing to do with this?

    There is noone here being obtuse or rude towards you. Why are you so hostile? I cant imagine the way you type here is the way you speak normally so the only logical conclusion to me, is that something made you angry, most likely to do with m+ or Raider.Io.

  9. #889
    If it isn't evident enough. Stardrift is a very bitter person who seemingly wishes to devalue any achievement bar his own.

    The circular argument even if you provide proof that people have to practice for it quite a lot and experiment a lot of different paths will always be the same. IT IS JUST MOAR NUMBARZ BRO, OH JUST A STEALTH POT SO EZ, GET A GILD, MAEKZ IT SO MUCH EASIER etc.

    I mean he has thrown insults at Asmongold so obviously has a massive bone to pick with him given his success (and he devalues his achievements too)

    Just roll your eyes, ignore the guy and move on.

  10. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    The same old mechanics don't play the same at higher key levels, how you approach some, or rather how seriously you need to take them changes as it gets higher. Even still, this is a poor argument, there clearly is high end M+. To try to assert that it doesn't exist, then to offer such a poor argument in favour of this assertion isn't a good look.
    Yea, being forced to not brute force the mechanics sure are brand new mechanics, hey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    If it’s so easy then why don’t you do it yourself? It’s just bigger numbers right? You could easily prove your point by doing it yourself.
    Like I said, no reward. No achievements, no nothing.

    M+ is piss poor content and shouldn't be in the game. It nullifies the rest of the game's content by having all the BIS gear and easy to obtain mythic raid ilvl gear.

    It boils down to doing +15 for the weekly chest then trying to push against big numbers for fun. What about that is high end/hardcore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubim View Post
    The argument about being Bigger Number is not high end makes me think you dont play this game at all.

    Most Mythic Raiding is a number issue, do we bring another healer? When do we use cooldowns to deal with this mechanic now that it deals X amount of damage? How do we survive Y skill now?

    Same thing applies to Mythic+, the numbers are bigger, means that a cast that you could let it go can probabbly one shot you now.

    TLDR: Bigger numbers = less mistakes you can do.
    Congrats, you've devolved to pretending new mechanics aren't introduced to mythic raid difficulties.



    But, to all of you, this is besides the point. The topic is about raider IO, and my point along side many is that IO is nothing more than a way for people to beg for carries. There is no other purpose behind it.

    Want to get good? Drop that shit and find a guild, show them you're not some overglorified LFR hero (this is most likely where you will fail) and get accepted into their M+ runs.
    Last edited by Stardrift; 2020-09-11 at 05:34 AM.

  11. #891
    You have 2 opposing problems, how do you solve both of them so that both parties are satisfied?

    1. Players want to play m+ but cant because they are being gatekeeped.

    2. Players should have the ability to pick and choose who they invite into their groups, nobody likes playing with people who cant pull their weight.

    Personally I think solo m+ is the least disruptive answer, that way people who fall into the first category can go solo and still get to experience the game. IDC about how it's implemented the details don't matter so long as it gives the same rewards and difficulty is tuned the same or greater than the multiplayer equivalent. Meanwhile, those who who fall into category 2 don't need to solo if they don't want to too so they can continue to play how they always do.

    Also WoW has a lack of high end solo content especially when it comes to gear progression, this is a mmorpg not a co-op game, there is a difference. It's okay for mmorpgs to have difficult, challenging, rewarding and progression based end game activities for solo players.

    I see requests like this get backlash from a lot of people who seem to think anything solo = bad which is just sad because you cant have it both ways. If your not willing to play with others and invite low io into your group then you should have no issues with a solo environment for those "bad" players to complete m+ on their own. How does it affect you? You can't say "this is mmo solo bad" when you werent even going to invite or play with these players in the first place. Seems to me like you people are more concerned about trying to control who gets gear and who gets to play the game rather than the game itself.

  12. #892
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    But, to all of you, this is besides the point. The topic is about raider IO, and my point along side many is that IO is nothing more than a way for people to beg for carries. There is no other purpose behind it.

    Want to get good? Drop that shit and find a guild, show them you're not some overglorified LFR hero (this is most likely where you will fail) and get accepted into their M+ runs.
    It’s pretty much usually exactly the other way round. Rio prevents people from begging for carries because you need to work for your own score. You need to grind that number up by pushing all keys from all dungeons to +15 or even higher. Nobody will take you if your score is bad because they don’t want to carry your sorry ass.
    And if someone starts a group and requires a too high score, then the group will usually never reach 5 players.
    It’s not so difficult to get a free carry in a guild or with friends. You just say “I didn’t do my +15 this week yet, can someone help me with that” and a friendly guild will help.

    So you have it completely backwards. Somehow working your way up and pushing your own score higher is being an “LFR hero” in your eyes when the real LFR heroes take advantage of their guild to get content done

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Bozey17 View Post
    1. Players want to play m+ but cant because they are being gatekeeped.
    This is an imaginary problem. Everyone has their own key and the ability to make a group. People are just too lazy or whatever to do it. So they rather have other people do the job and then just join in. Like "if you set everything up for the party I'll stop by later and drink the beers."

    People say making a group is "hard". But it's the same for everyone. Someone has to do it. The problem is the skewed ratio between dps and tanks in the game. Not all dps are going to be able to join a group at one given moment because there are not enough tanks for that to happen. And this has nothing to do with RIO.

  14. #894
    Quote Originally Posted by Bozey17 View Post

    1. Players want to play m+ but cant because they are being gatekeeped.
    There is no such thing as "gate-keeping" in WoW. Everybody has the same right and possibilities to make a group and invite people to do all the content in the game.

  15. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by Rung View Post
    There's a lot of tanks in the game but a lot of them don't play with pugs.
    Haha yes there are a lot of tanks in the game. But there are more dps

  16. #896
    Quote Originally Posted by Rung View Post
    There's a lot of tanks in the game but a lot of them don't play with pugs.
    Although I do not intend to agree or disagree with you, this gave me an inspiration to do a quick random raiderio.io check: how many tanks, healers and damage dealers are there above some score? I'll arbitrarily pick 2k score (I have no idea how choosing a higher or a lower score should affect the ratio).

    Tanks: 89,161
    Healers: 102,729
    Damage dealers: 308,463

    For each tank, there are 1.15 healers and 3.45 damage dealers. I am surprised, I thought the ratio would not be that close to 1:1:3.

  17. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    Although I do not intend to agree or disagree with you, this gave me an inspiration to do a quick random raiderio.io check: how many tanks, healers and damage dealers are there above some score? I'll arbitrarily pick 2k score (I have no idea how choosing a higher or a lower score should affect the ratio).

    Tanks: 89,161
    Healers: 102,729
    Damage dealers: 308,463

    For each tank, there are 1.15 healers and 3.45 damage dealers. I am surprised, I thought the ratio would not be that close to 1:1:3.
    that's the point Rung made. In pugs you don't have this ratio. A significant amount of tanks doesn't pug much. There isn't really that big of a tank scarcity in WoW. There just is a tank scarcity in world of pugcraft. And anyone who tanked in pugs knows why.

  18. #898
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    Although I do not intend to agree or disagree with you, this gave me an inspiration to do a quick random raiderio.io check: how many tanks, healers and damage dealers are there above some score? I'll arbitrarily pick 2k score (I have no idea how choosing a higher or a lower score should affect the ratio).

    Tanks: 89,161
    Healers: 102,729
    Damage dealers: 308,463

    For each tank, there are 1.15 healers and 3.45 damage dealers. I am surprised, I thought the ratio would not be that close to 1:1:3.
    That's really cool.

    If you +2 each dungeon, the score would be 240 with everything just on time:
    685,581 tanks at 240.0 or above
    722,585 healers at 240.0 or above
    2,305,764 DPS at 240.0 or above

    Ratio 1:1.05:3.36

    This does mean if every tank is in a group, 37k healers (5%) and 250k DPS (10%) are in the cold...

    For all registered Raider.IO users, it's 1,144,740 : 1,136,312 : 3,753,599, or 1:0.99:3.27.
    Last edited by Firebert; 2020-09-11 at 06:31 PM.
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  19. #899
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    For each tank, there are 1.15 healers and 3.45 damage dealers. I am surprised, I thought the ratio would not be that close to 1:1:3.
    raider.io only records completed runs, so having a ratio near 1:1:3 is to be expected.

    A week has only so much hours and over hundreds of thousands of players actual playtime should even out. The only way tanks go below their 20% ratio is when they actual play longer/more dungeons than healers and dps.

  20. #900
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    raider.io only records completed runs, so having a ratio near 1:1:3 is to be expected.
    Haha yeah this should be pretty obvious to everyone. Unless people are running without a tank in some groups which I don't think happen very often in BFA :P

    I guess not all people have learned to think before they talk.

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